John Cedars Uncovered

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Marina
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John Cedars Uncovered

#1 Post by Marina » 7 months ago

Some of you may remember that our old CoBE was interviewed by John Cedars.

If you don't remember, here he is. Steve Harvey.

[Removed]

I don't follow what goes on on John Cedars' channel but I get told a lot about him because others watch him a lot and think his reasoning is excellent.

Having spent I dunno how long criticising the GB, he's been found out. So all those who have said what a wonderful job he has done have now come to realise he hasn't done a wonderful job at all. Rather, he has spent his time pointing his finger at the GB blaming them (or the false doctrines he was forced to live with) for his acting against the true teachings in the Bible that he was choosing not to go along with.

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The contents of this video are distasteful but show up his hypocrisy in calling the girls 'women' and encouraging a girl in a course that he would criticise the GB for. (Ezekiel 8:9)

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For the record, here this link I found John Cedar complaining to the BBC about Watchtower. Child Abuse Religions Report - BBC

Talk about taking the biscuit. If he's taking a break and having a KitKat he'd be wise to reflect on just who and what the Lion of Judah is - I am sure his powers of intellect are equal to it.
Marina

apollos0fAlexandria
Posts: 3450
Joined: 8 years ago

Re: John Cedars Uncovered

#2 Post by apollos0fAlexandria » 7 months ago

Hi Marina

I have taken the step of removing the video links from the post. As far as I know these can still be monetized by the owner, and given your tone I'm pretty sure that you wouldn't support that.

I used to remove every Cedars video, until he toned down his rabid atheism a bit. But in this latest turn, I would feel complicit if I left those links up. Hope you understand.

Best,
Apollos

P.S. I left the BBC one, as I don't think they'd be paying anyone for replays.

Marina
Posts: 2864
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: John Cedars Uncovered

#3 Post by Marina » 7 months ago

Hi Apollos - No I wouldn't support his money making schemes. I was oblivious as to whether or not they were monetize. The second one was from Kim Mikey 'Mirrored- JLE Turn Yourself in NOW!' urging him to turn himself into the Police. I know Bobcat has put links to them, so I thought it was ok. The third one was horrendous but showed clearly how he had been behaving. It was from a channel called 'Yahweh out there'. I put them up for people's info. I have no problem with you taking them down. What deeply concerns me is that SO many have watched Cedar's videos. They want to leave WT, think he offers a solution but actually he is as bad. I see in the comments of Yahweh out there that the channel owner has 7 more emails.
Yahweh out there
12 hours ago
I'll send the other 7 emails, they're worse than this mate, if you care to see them of course.

I spoke to a lady the other day who has family in WT. Of these family members she said, "there's never any point discussing things with them because they are always right." I said, "yes, they think they are Christians and express a lot of Christian values (which makes them right) but the errors of their doctrines lie within the detail and most don't know know these details. And whether they do or not, they can't speak against the Governing Body cause it is like the Pope. But there is one way you can get to them."
"How?" She asked.
"Ask them if they'd like to learn about Jehovah and keep on talking to them about Jehovah. They'll be perplexed. You have just taken their identity from them."

Returning to John Cedars, he attacks Jehovah and in those videos which I posted, he's basically blaming WT for telling him to flee from fornication. But they got that bit right! I can imagine the congregation members who covertly watch his videos will take his behavior as justification for them putting up with corruption within the organization.

On the subject of talking to them about Jehovah, several weeks ago I went for a walk and could see Special Pioneer and with her long-term Bible Study walking towards me. I knew I'd get shunned but was ready with a smile just in case. The Special had seen me and was walking with her head carefully angled away from me. But her Bible Study saw me too. She looked at me and smiled. She knows me. So I smiled back and said "hello." At which point she smiled even more and tugged on the Special's arm. But the Special Pioneer did not respond, so she tugged again and was pointing at me. The Special was angry and stared hard into a garden bush, anything rather than look at me. So I said to the Bible Study, "she wont say hello, she thinks I have done something wrong, but I haven't. I am being lied about. I haven't done anything wrong. I love Jehovah and would never turn away from Jehovah." Now the Bible Study was utterly gleeful. She left the Special to come running towards me with her arms open wide. So what does the Special do? She grabbed the arm of her Bible Study and yanked her, like a naught child, back to her side. She was preventing her from running towards me. The Bible Study looked bemused and horrified. The Special Pioneer looked like she was chewing on wasps.

Speaking to the Bible Study as she was yanked back to the side of the Special Pioneer, I said, "you are being lied too."

So by sticking to the bits that WT got right and pointedly raising a question about the very identity that they claim (Jehovah's Witnesses), I hope I raised some questions in the Bible Study's mind that will help her to maintain her Christian faith and at the same time escape a mind-control cult. John Cedars has sufficient intellect to have pursued a similar course, likely far more effectively than me. But he never did.
Marina

apollos0fAlexandria
Posts: 3450
Joined: 8 years ago

Re: John Cedars Uncovered

#4 Post by apollos0fAlexandria » 7 months ago

Hi Marina

Understood. I think this is one to leave in the Lord's hands.

I'm not going to pretend I didn't pay keen attention to the train-wreck. I just hope that some good will come of it for people who have the right motivations.

Hope you're doing well,
Apollos

Get out of her
Posts: 1212
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Re: John Cedars Uncovered

#5 Post by Get out of her » 7 months ago

Wow! What an experience you had there Marina. It tugged on my heart strings just to know that both you as well as this student of the "special pioneer" were put through this.

Wanted you to know I appreciated the info on the John Cedars issue. I barely even knew who he was when Bobcat recently brought him up and the reason for that is I very quickly realized he seemed to have nothing to offer except very strong criticism of the Watchtower organization. On that basic alone I knew something was very wrong and of course now the specifics on that are becoming more apparent. I don't believe I even knew he had become an Atheist or was otherwise basically beginning to attack Jehovah right along with the JW organization.

As opposed to feeling sorry for him I'm at the point now where I'm mostly just hoping that what turned out to be some well deserved punishment will ultimately serve as a kind of wake-up call for him. The prospect of his eternal well being is clearly MUCH more on the line at the moment than I initially imagined.

The situation here reminded me of an article I wrote very shortly after I subscribed to this website in early 2017 entitled--The Proper View of the Apostate Nation. It was actually a loving and respectful response to some criticism that I MYSELF had received for what was justifiably recognized as a verbal attack against the JW organization on MY part. The reason I will never forget it is because of all the commotion it seemed to cause even for several months which I still even now find somewhat mysterious. In fact it was almost immediately transferred to the "Controversial" section of the forum which I struggled to understand since the comments I continued to receive on it over the next several months mostly on OTHER threads or even from "Private Messaging" were only ever ones of praise and appreciation for it.

Anyway it was a short article and there were really only two or three points I had endeavored to cover with the scriptures on this issue which I'm sure are well worth reiterating very concisely:

1. Particularly in view of the specific prophetic time frame or setting we currently find ourselves in which is PRECISELY the one we are considering in the Gospel accounts with the ministry of the "two witnesses" which on this occasion went by the name of John the Baptist and Jesus, we would undoubtedly do well to take into account that our "LEADER" and "exemplar" was known for even VIGOROUSLY criticizing or even exposing the false religious leaders of THAT time period. (Mt 15:9 23:27, 33) (Mr 7:9-13)

2. The issue here really is the MOTIVES or objectives behind these things. It should be self evident that GENUINE ministers of Jehovah are interested only in revealing the TRUTH of the scriptures to people which just as Jesus demonstrated involves FAR more than merely exposing false ministers OR their teachings. If LOVE is actually part of the equation here, then even the purpose of this rather blunt or straightforward criticism ITSELF is designed with the motive we find in accounts like Matthew 3:7-9. Yes if anything the OBJECTIVE here was to shock these people as well as the ones LISTENING to these reproofs into the REALITY of their situation, and hopefully by extension move them to "REPENTANCE." We NEVER want to simply expose the LIES of false ministers and then utterly fail to reveal the TRUTH of God's word.

3. This brings us to the topic of what really is the "PROPER view of the Apostate Nation." (Isa 10:6) Have we weakly allowed ourselves to be altogether defeated or conquered by mere hatred, anger and resentment toward whatever religious group managed to hold us in a condition of darkness and slavery for maybe even many years with their false teachings? (Ro 12:21) It is ultimately Satan and the demons that are at least PRIMARILY responsible for this situation, and this is really just another way of saying that almost without exception the false religious leaders that deceived us so horribly are even more victimized than WE OURSELVES! This is because most of them have STILL not awoken or "caught sight" of their extremely dire situation. (Mt 24:15, 16 25:5)

This is BY NO MEANS a situation that should move us to be hateful towards others! REGARDLESS of just how strong the words of Jesus were at times in connection with what the scriptures refer to with terms like the "apostate nation," the way he actually FELT about it's completely "devastated" condition is clearly laid out for us in accounts like Luke 19:41-44. (Eze 38:8) If we are not currently coming from the very same place with our own feelings or views on this issue, then some very serious and prayerful soul searching would certainly be in order in our case.

Agape love;
Sol

Marina
Posts: 2864
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: John Cedars Uncovered

#6 Post by Marina » 7 months ago

Get out of her wrote: 7 months agoI'm mostly just hoping that what turned out to be some well deserved punishment will ultimately serve as a kind of wake-up call for him.
I agree but I've learnt not to hold my breath.

I don't feel bitter toward the Special - but yes her study is being kept from people who would care about her and be a nice friend.

The Special's pioneer partner died the other day. Ones who rarely visited texted the news with indifference. The Zoom meeting took place the evening before her death. No mention of her sad forgotten name. The meeting ended, nine and a half hours later she died. Dementia had settled in but in her lucid moments, I think she hated some of them because there were expectations that had not been met. Sometimes I wonder if she had actually lost her faith because of it all.

Before the dementia had settled in, I remember her asking, begging if she could come and live with me. If I had had the facilities I would have taken her home with me. But sadly I did not.

When you are safe and ok it is easy not to hate and be bitter. Or it is easier. But she was old and her body was injured by both arthritis and a fall down an escalator she had had (while accompanying the Special). Sometimes the carers were rough with her (not meaning to be) and the pain of arthritis can be dreadful. Imagine the misery of her confused mind in a body wracked with pain, utterly dependent on others but unable to be with those she knew well. One of her final wishes was to get to the Kingdom Hall to see them all and yet there was anger.

That the congregation could be so cold and callous, they should be shaken till their teeth rattle - in an attempt to get some sense into them that you should treat others as you'd want to be treated yourself. Because in the end they way they treat others is how they'll end up being treated. And their unhappy isolation may be x10 what her sad situation was.
Get out of her wrote: 7 months ago This is BY NO MEANS a situation that should move us to be hateful towards others! REGARDLESS of just how strong the words of Jesus were at times in connection with what the scriptures refer to with terms like the "apostate nation," the way he actually FELT about it's completely "devastated" condition is clearly laid out for us in accounts like Luke 19:41-44. (Eze 38:8) If we are not currently coming from the very same place with our own feelings or views on this issue, then some very serious and prayerful soul searching would certainly be in order in our case.
Yes Sol I agree with you.

Incidentally have recently found out that Christianity is not a religion. Its a faith and a faith is not the same as a religion. I know WT used to make they point that the were not a religion but someone put it to me like this recently.
As I learned when I received my dog tags in the military almost 40 years ago Christianity is not classified as a religion by the US military. At that time to declare that one was a Christian as I did after being baptized and saved the Father showed me through secular man the distinguishing characteristic of a Christian is faith, not religion. Christianity is a faith. You have to walk in it.
Marina

Get out of her
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Joined: 5 years ago

Re: John Cedars Uncovered

#7 Post by Get out of her » 6 months ago

It was a pleasure reading over your above comments Marina especially upon learning you are not resentful towards the "special pioneer" we are speaking of here. On at least some level we have every reason to recognize her as if anything the MOST victimized of the parties involved in this since she has clearly drank more of the proverbial "koolaid" than anyone else in this scenario. Some might say she definitely opted for the "BLUE pill" here instead of the "red one" (as the expression goes) perhaps more than most.

Wanted to point out that I also found it noteworthy how you are obviously among many who are clearly beginning to recognize what seems an ever decreasing level of love among the organization. Of course this is not something exclusive to the Watchtower organization. Regardless however I see no other choice but to recognize it as part of the fulfillment of scriptural prophesies such as found at Matthew 24:12 where Jesus speaks of a time when the "love of the greater number will cool off."

The moment we come to understand the true identity of this "disgusting thing" he immediately thereafter speaks of in verse 15 that would always be occupying the "holy place" in the prophetic time frames we are considering in this account, this "cooling off" of love should definitely come as no surprise to us. The ancient prophet Jeremiah in this very same setting of national apostasy referred to this very alarming situation as the "breakdown of the DAUGHTER of my [God's] people." (Jer 8:11) A careful analysis of reference scriptures like Ezekiel 23:1-4 found in this same setting reveal that this entity would consist of what is always BORN from the spiritually adulterous relations involved with Jehovah's appointed earthly shepherds violating his holy marriage covenant which is of course also referred to as the law or even KINGDOM covenant. (Isa 1:21) (La 1:1, 4) (Da 11:30-32) (2 Th 2:1-4)
As I learned when I received my dog tags in the military almost 40 years ago Christianity is not classified as a religion by the US military. At that time to declare that one was a Christian as I did after being baptized and saved the Father showed me through secular man the distinguishing characteristic of a Christian is faith, not religion. Christianity is a faith. You have to walk in it.
Particularly in view of the seemingly countless number of religious groups that currently refer to themselves as Christians while at the same time demonstrating before everyone that they are anything but, its very easy for me to understand and sympathize with this perspective which is undoubtedly at least partially accurate and scripturally based. Moreover since the literal definition of the word religion is evidently –an organized form of worship and the current situation among so called "Christianity" if anything would point to the notion of DISorganized, it really should come as no surprise to us that the U.S. military is unable to utilize this classification.

Nevertheless upon any serious contemplation I'm certain that all of us here including yourself would never choose to rely on the U.S. military or even this "secular man" referred to here to define Christianity for us. In the words of the ancient prophet Isaiah, it would of course be –"to the law and to the attestation" we would turn when it comes to spiritual matters or questions like this. (Isa 8:20) So what then does a careful analysis of God's written word actually reveal when it come to a genuine or even complete definition of Christianity, or what the scriptures from the first century forward also identify with terms such as "The Way" or even SPIRITUAL Israel? (Ac 9:2 19:9) (Ga 6:16) (He 8:5 12:22)

As it turns out when it comes to TRUE Christianity at least, the fact is ALL THREE of the terms we just covered here (namely a nation, a religion, AND a faith) would come into play simultaneously when it comes to at least a more COMPLETE definition. At least during the often rather brief periods when it actually EXISTED on the earth, what both the Old and New testament most often actually refer to as ISRAEL (whether fleshly OR spiritual) was of course always first and foremost recognized as a full fledged NATION or kingdom. This is regardless of whether or not the "holy ones" or "anointed shepherds" that were actually RULING it could often be identified in ways such as the "holy ones of the household of CAESAR" or an "anointed shepherd" by the name of King "Cyrus" as was the case during the time of the ancient Medo-Persian Empire. (Php 4:22) (Isa 44:28 45:1) Moreover since this nation would actually belong to Jehovah as even his own "special property," it should come as no surprise to us that it would ALWAYS soon become a WORLD power, and even if the one it would now supplant would have gone by the very same name.

Now as ones like the Apostle Paul made clear in accounts like 1 Corinthians 6:15, as long as a renewed and inaugurated "Law" or "kingdom COVENANT" would remain "kept" or recognized by Jehovah as remaining in good standing with him, these anointed shepherds we are speaking of here would qualify as "members of CHRIST" or what Paul also described as even "MANY members" of this "body" of anointed ones. (Ex 19:5) (1 Cor 12:12) During these periods it should be clear to us that these same "holy ones" would not only be exercising genuine faith, but would also be doing so in an orderly or even ORGANIZED manner since not only was this specifically IDENTIFIED as among the qualifications of an "Israelite" even also right there in Galatians 6:16, but we also know that the GOD of this holy nation is himself "NOT a God of disorder, but of peace." (1 Cor 14:33) Therefore during what most often seemed like rather brief periods of spiritual faithfulness on their part, this nation obviously also met the definition of a religion as well as also a genuine faith.

But what about when this "lawlessness" that Paul made clear was "already at work" yet again among God's nation as early as merely18 or so years after yet another renewed and inaugurated covenant would progress to the point of the outright national "apostasy" he speaks of in these very same verses, or otherwise what the prophet Daniel explicitly identified as a "LEAVING of the holy covenant" on the part of these appointed shepherds? (2 Th 2:1-8) (Da 11:30-32)

Well right here in this same account of 1 Corinthians 6:15 we learn that by means of this act of spiritual adultery or unfaithfulness against what is also described as a holy MARRIAGE covenant, what had previously qualified as "members of the CHRIST" have now suddenly become reduced to what he now describes here as "members of a HARLOT." While we are obviously still dealing with a NATION here at this point it should be rather clear to us that it is not at all a CHRISTIAN one, and this is regardless of the fact that it would undoubtedly continue to refer to itself as such if we were to accept as factual what Paul ALSO points out to us in accounts like 2 Corinthians 11:13-15. What is more, since we are now dealing with what the ancient Solomon identified as a "CONTENTIOUS wife," we are by extension dealing also with the "disorder, jealousy" and even "EVERY vile thing" that we currently witness among ALL alleged "Christianity," and which ALWAYS results from the "earthly, animal, demonic" thing that this "apostasy" ALWAYS places in Jehovah's holy "sanctuary" or "temple" when his holy covenant is violated. (Pr 21:9, 24) (Jas 3:14-16) (Da 11:30-32) (1 Cor 3:16, 17) Compare (Pr 21:19) (Mt 24:15, 16)

Yes what we are dealing with now is what the ancient Isaiah identified as an "APOSTATE nation" or Jeremiah and Ezekiel in this very same setting described as a kind of contentious and even promiscuous "DAUGHTER" of Jehovah's people. (Isa 1:21 10:6) (Jer 8:11) (Eze 23:1-4) And since this now faithless and disorganized nation is no longer JEHOVAH'S, it now fits NONE of the definitions of Christianity. AS SUCH it now begins to fracture into different divisions which only increasingly CONTINUE to hate and fight against each other both within and without just as we see all around us at this very moment. However since the "pangs of distress" foretold for the FINAL "birth of the barren woman" would involve a "breakdown" or "great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, and which will never occur again," this among other things means we are now dealing with a number of divisions or denominations of false worship that make what the "two witnesses" of the first century encountered with the constantly bickering Pharisees, Sadducees and Samaritans seem as almost insignificant by comparison. (1 Th 5:1-3) (Jer 15:9) (1 Sa 2:5) (Isa 54:1-4 66:7, 8) (Mt 24:21) (Re 11:3)

All the above scriptures as well as many more should help to assure my dear brothers and sisters that regardless of the many years of relentless false programming or even "tickling of the ears" that Paul made clear would be associated with ANY national apostasy, to yearn and pray for the coming of the Millennial Reign is to among other things yearn and pray for the final foretold manifestation of true Christianity or spiritual Israel. (2 Ti 4:3) By the same token, to recognize or even refer to ourselves or others as Christians at the moment is to basically assert that there is NO NEED for this final foretold "birth of the barren woman." Just as is obviously the case with ANY nation or nationality, Israelites and the "Jewish" anointed shepherding "fold" of this "flock" exist on the earth when their NATION does. (Ro 2:28, 29) (Ac 18:24, 25) (Lu 12:32) (Joh 10:16) (Zec 11:14-17)

Agape love;
Sol

Marina
Posts: 2864
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: John Cedars Uncovered

#8 Post by Marina » 6 months ago

Get out of her wrote: 6 months ago I'm certain that all of us here including yourself would never choose to rely on the U.S. military or even this "secular man" referred to here to define Christianity for us.
No of course not. Just interesting that they set Christianity up at the highest level along with life itself. Also, Watchtower is careful to distinguish itself from a religion. In Watchtower's case it is a publishing company which craftily publishes information in opposition to Jesus Christ but tries to pass itself off as a non-religious organization - non-religious because Jesus was not religious. However, I think that Watchtower identifies as a religion for tax purposes. But I'm not well informed on this, so if I am wrong, sorry. Maybe someone else can clarify.
Marina

lynchpin
Posts: 176
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: John Cedars Uncovered

#9 Post by lynchpin » 6 months ago

Hi Marina,

'However, I think that Watchtower identifies as a religion for tax purposes'.

Correct! They lagged behind a few other groups who were also slow to take up the Redress system and finally gave in.

Details here:
https://www.bishop-accountability.org/2 ... e-victims/

I remember years ago they discussed religion in a Watchtower article denying they were a 'religious group' or were a 'religion' ... yet, when it comes to lovely cash into their bank account, hehheh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHrTMewsJbw


lp

Get out of her
Posts: 1212
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: John Cedars Uncovered

#10 Post by Get out of her » 4 months ago

Interesting article lynchpin.

It reminded me of how I long have wondered what exactly are the perks of becoming an NGO member of the U.N., or for that matter that of the OSCE. I understand the organization became an official member of both at one time or another. You wouldn't happen to know more about that would you?

Agape love;
Sol

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