Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

[Stranger]

It's nice to meet you Stranger.

The feeling is mutual Coccus, no doubt. I don't know if you remember but I once told you that when it comes right down to it I'd want you on my side when TSHTF.

Thank you for that inspiring testimonial, and it's nice to know my impressions about you were correct.

With much love,

Stranger, (2Cor 8:12)

[Stranger]

I would have thought that stranger would have known in a war situation the “first casualty is truth”.
BOTH sides lie. BOTH sides do what they can to discredit each other. Americans are FED in the same manner as Russians.

Did you hear me say one word about truth? What I said was: "let the people in Russia know what's really going on in Ukraine".

FYI, America is not in the War as of yet, so when you say that both sides lie, just remember that both sides doesn't include America.

Are you still going to that propaganda palace called a Kingdom Hall, or have you stopped partaking?


Stranger, (Rom 12:20)

[coccus ilicis]

Hi Stranger,

You say,

The feeling is mutual Coccus, no doubt. I don't know if you remember but I once told you that when it comes right down to it I'd want you on my side when TSHTF

You still don't get it. There are no sides. America has been at war, hot or cold, from at least the first world war. Its side against the other side, whoever that may have been at the time. Do you really believe America has told you the truth?

You are disillusioned with JWs. Why? Did they lie to you? Or did they teach what they believed to be true? There is a difference. People believe what they want to believe but that doesn't make it true or right. I say what I believe to be true. But what if I am wrong, will I own up or cover it over? That is what having a spirit of truth is all about. It is uncompromising.

Jesus said concerning this spirit of truth that the Father would give those who love him and obey his commandments, I will ask the Father to give you another helper to be with you forever, the spirit of truth, which the world cannot receive because it neither beholds it nor knows it, , (Jhn 14:15-17). Are you saying that that applies to the rest of the world apart from America?

Truth is very uncompromising. It doesn't make allowances for sentimental attachments as we are prone to do, making excuses for those near and dear to us. Having a few drinks, listening to music, watching some escapist movie or doing whatever else we do to block out the truth about ourselves, or the ones we love, or our part of the world. But it doesn't change the truth.

You say that America could have conquered the world if it had wanted to. What else does that tell you about America other than that it didn't want to? Picture it in your mind, do you see a peace-loving America? Or do you see an America bristling with guns and missiles? If what you see is the second picture ask yourself, why. And each time you answer, ask the next question. Truth is uncompromising, we are the sentimentalists. Which is fine for a bit of relaxation with friends. But what if that beautiful sentimental picture is shattered by a drone that blows us and our loved ones to smithereens. And I ask, why? You might say they deserved it? Why did they deserve it? Is it because they didn't agree with you, the Lord of the earth? If that is your reasoning then I ask, and who appointed you Lord of the earth?

Do you get my drift?

The world including America cannot receive the spirit of truth, because it hasn't got a clue what it is. It always looks for excuses, i.e. they deserved it. What about all the women and children and all those others whose limbs and guts are scattered over the ground? Collateral damage, say you. Fancy words do not hide the truth. You killed twenty or more people to get rid of one person that would not bend the knee to you. Violence breeds violence,with the measure you are measuring out they will measure out to you, (Mt 7:2).

Don't you see, stranger, we are now approaching a time when we must face the uncompromising truth that we are living in a violent world of our own making. One that is on the brink of destroying itself. Once one receives the spirit of truth one sees what is going on and knows that the only solution is God stepping in to cut the great tribulation short at just the right moment. Giving the world just enough time to see what it has wrought to bring it to its senses. Once your backside has been blown away, there's no point in pulling your head out of the sand.

There is no taking of sides. There is only uncompromising truth and that is why it says if anyone has an ear let him hear, Note it is doubtful, God understands the power of propaganda. If anyone has an ear, let him hear. If anyone is meant for captivity, he goes away into captivity. If anyone will kill by the sword, he must be killed by the sword. There are no sides. Only uncompromising truth. Here is where it means the endurance and faith of the holy ones, (Rev 13:10).

[Marina]

Hi CI

Video explaining how the issue is moving from politics to private corporations. Corporations which opposed God, stating He does not exist and seeking to remove people's free will. I am putting this here in support of your point that there are no sides, other than the narrow way leading to life or the wide road leading to destruction. The man who made this video is not Christian but makes excellent points and ends on how we have to use our own thinking skills to get through this.



(Matthew 7:13-14)

[Stranger]

You still don't get it. There are no sides.

Hi Coccus,

Okay, I admit, it was a poor choice of word(s). I should have said "by" instead of "on". It's amazing how just one word said can distort things in such a manner. (Matt 5:18)

You are disillusioned with JWs.

Now that's a good word "(disillusioned)", it can be a tricky one had I not looked it up. I can't say that I'm disappointed with them for my life but I will admit to some resentfulness toward them for what they have done to the lives of loved ones and strangers alike.

Do you really believe America has told you the truth?

No I don't Coccus, who or what is America? We all have our own image of it, many around the World call it "the Great Satan", to me it's home for now and it's just a big soup bowl, dog eat dog, who's scamming who type of place like any other.

Do you get my drift?

I always get your Drift, and when the wind gets just right we can sail away and find serenity, "side by side".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEO6gYCFbr0


Stranger, "standing by"

[AmosAU]

Hi Stranger,

How bout this one'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zkjQVh5KmQ

Regards, Amos.

[Stranger]

How bout this one'

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zkjQVh5KmQ

Regards, Amos.

Wonderful truthful song Amos, Re; "Feel the power of Babylon". Coincidentally I was Just Reading (Jer 37:16 KJV) (Jer 37:17 KJV) and to the end of the chapter.

So, out of the cellar and into the Kremlin, like Stranger in Moscow, I put one in the Music thread for you.


Stranger

[coccus ilicis]

You still don't get it. There are no sides.

Hi Coccus,

Okay, I admit, it was a poor choice of word(s). I should have said "by" instead of "on". It's amazing how just one word said can distort things in such a manner. (Matt 5:18)

Now that's a good word "(disillusioned)", it can be a tricky one had I not looked it up. I can't say that I'm disappointed with them for my life but I will admit to some resentfulness toward them for what they have done to the lives of loved ones and strangers alike.

No I don't Coccus, who or what is America? We all have our own image of it, many around the World call it "the Great Satan", to me it's home for now and it's just a big soup bowl, dog eat dog, who's scamming who type of place like any other.

I always get your Drift, and when the wind gets just right we can sail away and find serenity, "side by side".
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MEO6gYCFbr0

Stranger, "standing by"

Now I see that wonderful spirit of truth shining through the clouds. Nice to get to know you Stranger.

Although the forum is a great means of communicating with people wherever they are, words get in the way. What we say makes so much more sense when talking face to face which is the point well made in the video FriendlyDoggo features in The problem of Mark 2:26

Talking about words and getting back on track to 'Revelation - Where we are in the Stream of Time,' Dan 11:44,45. Whilst checking scriptures connecting the mountain of decoration to Mt. Ararat. I discovered something quite unexpected.

Ararat Meaning: unclear, Etymology: unclear.
The word ararat is probably imported from a foreign language and it doesn't really mean anything in Hebrew. But according to Jones' Dictionary of Old Testament Proper Names, the name Ararat comes from (1) the common Hebrew word הר (har) hill . I thought how can that be, the languages were not confused until after the flood not before it. So this remains a question mark. But the other thing I found was this.

The Hebrew word for ark as in Noah's ark, is תֵּבָה 8392. tebah - a box, chest . And it occurs only 28 times in the OT, including Ex 2:3,5. Moses was placed into an ark for survival.



And the Hebrew word for the ark of the covenant the one the Levites carried, (De 31:25), is אָרוֹן 727, aron - a chest, ark. And it first occurs at Gen 50:26, a total of 202 times in the OT



Thus we have two completely different Hebrew words, tebah and aron, that are rendered ark in English, most probably to align it to the Greek Septuagint translation. According to the Apostolic Bible Polyglot, 2006 lexicon which lists all the verses where the Greek word kibotos for ark is used, it also lists the verses where it is used in the NT, namely Mt 24:38; Lk 17:27; Heb 9:4 11:7; 1P 3:20; Rev 11:19.

So let's see which ark is referred to in each of the listed verses. tebah of Noah's ark; or aron in which Joseph was buried, the gold-covered box with the two cherubs on top with which we are all familiar. Mt 24:38; Lu 17:27; Heb 11:7; 1Pe 3:20; clearly refer to Noah's tebah/ark. And at Heb 9:4 it clearly refers to the aron/ark in which the tablets and manna and Aaron's budded rod were kept.

That leaves us with the one mentioned at Rev 11:19. This is still a question mark, as this is not seen until after the seventh angel blows his trumpet when the kingdom of the world becomes the kingdom of our Lord and his Anointed. When the twenty-four elders thank God for taking his power to rule
...but the nations become wrathful and your own wrath comes and the time for the dead to be judged to give the reward to your servants and prophets and the holy ones the small and the great. And to bring to ruin those ruining the earth. And the temple sanctuary of God that is in heavens is opened and the ark of his covenant is seen in his temple sanctuary, (Rev 11:18,19). Now keeping in mind that Revelation is a translation of the Hebrew, which ark is seen in heaven? Teba, Noah's ark, or Aron, the box that housed the ten commandments, the manna and Aaron's budded rod. We will just have to wait and see.

That has little to do with where we are in the stream of time, except we are not there yet. But getting back to the present and what's happening in Ukraine I found the article, link below, of interest, considering what it says at Dan 11:45 concerning the king of the north, and he shall have come all the way, [perfect conjunctive verb], to his end and no one will be helping him, [present participle]. It doesn't say he actually engages in a war and is conquered, but that he shall have come all the way to his end. An odd expression, don't you think? It's as if it has been planned all along. But read the article for yourself Russian Judo Tears the West Apart
March 11, 2022: - The official Russian blacklist of hostile sanctioning nations includes the US, the EU, Canada and, in Asia, Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and Singapore (the only one from Southeast Asia). Notice how the ‘international community’ keeps shrinking. Putin has a black belt in Judo and those familiar with the underlying principle of Judo will recognize how he out-sanctions their sanctions.

Russia and China are two of the horns of the 8th beast (Rev 17: 12, 13) that is committed to world peace,(see post 49, here). The same beast mentioned in the 'Reset' video Marina posted, post 84 above. Yes, it is indeed as if it has been planned all along. The WEF was founded in 1971.

[goghtherefore]

Hi ci

Re post # 70:

"At Dan 11:44 it says that reports would disturb the king of the north. This was the king of the north after WW2."

May I ask what you teach about the (according to your interpretation already fulfilled) details described, for example, at Daniel chapter 11 verses 10 to 19?

"10 “His sons shall wage war and assemble a multitude of great forces, which shall keep coming and overflow and pass through, and again shall carry the war as far as his fortress. 11 Then the king of the south, moved with rage, shall come out and fight against the king of the north. And he shall raise a great multitude, but it shall be given into his hand. 12 And when the multitude is taken away, his heart shall be exalted, and he shall cast down tens of thousands, but he shall not prevail. 13 For the king of the north shall again raise a multitude, greater than the first. And after some years he shall come on with a great army and abundant supplies.

14 “In those times many shall rise against the king of the south, and the violent among your own people shall lift themselves up in order to fulfill the vision, but they shall fail. 15 Then the king of the north shall come and throw up siege works and take a well-fortified city. And the forces of the south shall not stand, or even his best troops, for there shall be no strength to stand. 16 But he who comes against him shall do as he wills, and none shall stand before him. And he shall stand in the glorious land, with destruction in his hand. 17 He shall set his face to come with the strength of his whole kingdom, and he shall bring terms of an agreement and perform them. He shall give him the daughter of women to destroy the kingdom, but it shall not stand or be to his advantage. 18 Afterward he shall turn his face to the coast lands and shall capture many of them, but a commander shall put an end to his insolence. Indeed, he shall turn his insolence back upon him. 19 Then he shall turn his face back toward the fortresses of his own land, but he shall stumble and fall, and shall not be found."

My current perspective/view does not align with your teachings*. (*Israel being the beast that received a death stroke that healed, Identity of kings of north and south and timing that events of Daniel 11:40 took place just after 2nd world war)

I do appreciate your research very much. Thank you.

goghtherefore

[coccus ilicis]

Hi ci

Re post # 70:

"At Dan 11:44 it says that reports would disturb the king of the north. This was the king of the north after WW2."

May I ask what you teach about the (according to your interpretation already fulfilled) details described, for example, at Daniel chapter 11 verses 10 to 19?

"10 “His sons shall wage war and assemble a multitude of great forces, which shall keep coming and overflow and pass through, and again shall carry the war as far as his fortress. 11 Then the king of the south, moved with rage, shall come out and fight against the king of the north. And he shall raise a great multitude, but it shall be given into his hand. 12 And when the multitude is taken away, his heart shall be exalted, and he shall cast down tens of thousands, but he shall not prevail. 13 For the king of the north shall again raise a multitude, greater than the first. And after some years he shall come on with a great army and abundant supplies.

14 “In those times many shall rise against the king of the south, and the violent among your own people shall lift themselves up in order to fulfil the vision, but they shall fail. 15 Then the king of the north shall come and throw up siege works and take a well-fortified city. And the forces of the south shall not stand, or even his best troops, for there shall be no strength to stand. 16 But he who comes against him shall do as he wills, and none shall stand before him. And he shall stand in the glorious land, with destruction in his hand. 17 He shall set his face to come with the strength of his whole kingdom, and he shall bring terms of an agreement and perform them. He shall give him the daughter of women to destroy the kingdom, but it shall not stand or be to his advantage. 18 Afterward he shall turn his face to the coast lands and shall capture many of them, but a commander shall put an end to his insolence. Indeed, he shall turn his insolence back upon him. 19 Then he shall turn his face back toward the fortresses of his own land, but he shall stumble and fall, and shall not be found."

My current perspective/view does not align with your teachings*. (*Israel being the beast that received a death stroke that healed, Identity of kings of north and south and timing that events of Daniel 11:40 took place just after 2nd world war)

I do appreciate your research very much. Thank you.

goghtherefore

Hello goghtherefore,

How very astute of you to notice I haven't bothered to deal with it. The only sure pivotal date we have is the time of the end. If this happens to be that time then we can work back from there. If it isn't then whatever I say is just supposition.

So in your view to what period does the above passage that you quote apply?

To understand what is written in Daniel chapter 11, one needs to start reading from Dan 10:1. In the third year of Cyrus, the king of Persia, Daniel is shown a vision that concerns this king that had liberated the Jews from Babylon. It was of a great military force and he had understood that this vision was a vision of the time of the end, as he had already read that Jerusalem's destruction at the hand of the Babylonians was only the beginning of her devastation, (Dan 9:2, cf. Jer 25:11,15,17,18). And what he saw in this vision shattered him, and he put on sackcloth and ashes and mourned until three seventies were fulfilled. Then an unearthly angelic creature came to him to explain. From his explanation, one gets the impression that in the time of the end there is a war between the gods, called princes in the heavenly realm, that has an impact on earthly political events, (Dan 10:12-14).

Compare: And war breaks out in heaven. And Michael and his angels battle with the dragon, and the dragon and his angels battle, but he does not prevail ... So down the great dragon is hurled ... who is misleading the entire inhabited earth ...and his angels are hurled down with him. Adding: Woe to the earth and the sea because the devil has come down to you knowing he has a short period of time, (Rev 12:7-9,12).

What Daniel had understood, (Dan 10:1) aligned with what he had read in Jeremiah chapter 25, (Dan 9:1,2), concerning the complete devastation of Jerusalem in the time of the end when all the nations would be forced to drink the cup of Jehovah's rage, this war would start with Jerusalem (Jer 25: 27,28,29,32-38)

The angelic warrior confirms this, saying: … And I have come to cause you to discern what will befall you people in the final part of the days, (Dan 10:14, cf. Dan 8:17). However, I shall tell you the things noted down in the writings of truth, [from the verb to confirm support]. So what follows is a confirmation supporting what Daniel has seen in preceding visions. The angelic warrior then backtracks to the vision Daniel had seen in the first year of Darius, (Dan 11:1; cf. Dan 9:1), which also deals with the destruction of Jerusalem and ends with the disgusting things Jesus spoke of at Mt 24:15, cf. Dan 9:24-27. Then at Dan 11:31, he says: And there will be arms that will stand up proceeding from him and they will actually profane the sanctuary ... and remove the constant feature. which concerns the vision Daniel had recorded at Dan 8: 9,12,13,14. It is also about the time of the end, (Dan 8:17,24-26).

After which he says: And they will put in place the disgusting thing that is causing desolation, Dan 11:31, which refers to Dan 9:27 and is the same disgusting thing Jesus referred to at Mt 24:15. When the final war, which if it were not cut short, would destroy all flesh.

If one remembers that chapter, verse divisions and punctuation were added much later it helps in understanding what is written in the writings of truth.

The different rulers of the north and south that Daniel chapter 11 refers to are a detailed explanation of the writing of truth recorded in Daniel chapter 7, which also gives a description of how the 8th king emerges by displacing/humiliating three of the ten horns, (Dan 7:7,8,21,24). This vision is also about the time of the end, Dan 7:17,22,26,27).

As I said the only sure pivotal date we have to work from is the time of the end. If this is indeed that time then the rest will fall into place.

But please tell me why you do not think Israel is the slaughtered healed head of Rev 13, and what you believe it refers to.