Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

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coccus ilicis
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Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#1 Post by coccus ilicis » 8 months ago

Dear Readers,

I am being locked out of the DDT site for days on end. Bobcat and Apollos are working hard to eliminate the problem, but I am not sure that they can remedy it. We’ll have to wait and see.

So where are we in the stream of time​?

In post one of ‘Revelation – the Woman in the Wilderness,' I said:
The crowd sentenced Jesus to death at the sixth hour, (Jhn 19:14), between 11 and 12 noon. From that hour until the ninth hour, about 3½ hours darkness fell over all the land, and Jesus called out with a loud voice ..."Eli Eli lama sabachthani?" that is "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?' Jehovah's spirit, which had energized him and enabled him to perform great works, had completely left him and he felt abandoned even as King David before him had felt when he wrote: My God, my God, why have you abandoned me? (Mt 27:46; Ps 22:1-31)
Concerning the woman in the wilderness and her seed, Isaiah says: ...Jehovah called you as if you were a wife left entirely and hurt in spirit ...who is being rejected ...Your God has said. “For a little moment, I left you entirely ...I concealed my face from you but for a moment, (Isa 54:7)

This woman's seed, (Isa 54:3) correspond to those at the base of the altar. And those that are about to the killed, (Rev 6:9,11), to the two witnesses that along with covid lockdowns are now being progressively silenced, (Rev 11:7).

Isa 54:7 continues: but with loving kindness to time indefinite I will have mercy upon you, your repurchaser Jehovah has said.

Even as David and Jesus were abandoned for a time, so it will be for the seed of the woman in the wilderness, the two witnesses, (Ps 22:1; Isa 54:1-8; Rev 11:7-9). At Rev 12:17 it mentions the remaining ones of her seed, these are the ones that survive the flood of abuse that the dragon spews out at them in an effort to drown them. This is described as the  dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces at Dan 12:7, which is in progress now. If you have felt this abandonment, the draining of your power to speak then this concerns you.

Jehovah said For a little moment I left you entirely, How long is this little moment? Jesus was hung on the stake at the sixth hour, between 11 am and noon. At that time darkness fell over the whole land until the ninth hour about 3½ hours later. At the ninth hour he called out ...with a loud voice: “Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani?” which means when translated, “My God my God, why have you forsaken me?” (Mt 27:46).

This happens to all the woman’s seed. John saw the dragon which pursues the woman that gives birth to the male child, (Rev 12:13). The underlined verbs are aorist not past tense. So this 'giving birth,' is in progress and refers to those that survive the dragon's onslaught. These are the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus, Which corresponds to the two witnesses standing up, after three and half days the spirit of life from God enters into them and they, [the 2 witnesses], stand upon their feet and a great fear falls upon those beholding them, (Rev 11:11).

So how long is the little moment of abandonment?

For Jesus, this feeling of abandonment occurred 3½ hours after he was hung on the stake, between two and three pm just before he died. He came to life shortly after being entombed. For the two witnesses, the abandonment occurs after 3½ days, just before the spirit of life enters into them and they stand upon their feet, (Rev 11:9,11). We will have to wait and see when that is. At a guess, they will stand up on their feet when the great tribulation begins, when Israel attempts to wipe Iran/Persia off the map.

Israel’s opposition leader said the following on Jan 1, 2022.‘Israel’s’ Lapid: We May Attack Iran without Informing the US! ‘Israeli’ Foreign Minister Yair Lapid announced that an attack against Tehran could occur without prior correspondence with the US. ...“‘Israel’ will do whatever it needs to do to protect its security. And we don’t need anybody’s permission for that,” Lapid told Channel 12. “That’s been the case since the first day we established this ‘state’.”
And Israel’s new Prime Minister, Naftali Bennett, said on Dec 28, 2021
Jerusalem Post
Israel will be able to act independently even if world powers reach an agreement with Iran, Prime Minister Naftali Bennett said on Tuesday, a day after negotiations for Tehran and Washington to return to the 2015 nuclear deal resumed in Vienna ...“Israel won’t be a side in an agreement and will always keep its right to act and defend itself on its own

Also read, Jan 1, 2022 The Jewish state possesses capabilities the world can’t even imagine and will use them against Tehran if necessary, the Israeli foreign minister has warned. Since Israel doesn't use nuclear power for electricity, its nuclear sites are weapons facilities.
So a pre-emptive strike against Iran/Persia would include nuclear weapons.

Jesus described the retaliation thus: then let those in Judea begin fleeing to the mountains ...Woe to pregnant women and those suckling babies in those days... for then there will be great tribulation such has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, no, nor will occur again. In fact, unless those days were cut short no flesh would be saved, but on account of the chosen ones those days will be cut short. The chosen ones, correspond to the remaining ones of the woman's seed who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus, (Mt 24:16,19,21,22; Rev 12:17).

So how long is the abandonment? All that can be said is that it is not long. Just as Jesus called out , "My God, My God why have you abandoned me", just before he died - the exact time of his resurrection is unknown. So it will be for those the make up the body of the two witnesses. They also feel abandoned, God's energizing spirit is missing, the only thing remaining is the spirit of truth which will be with those who love Jesus and observe his commandments ...forever, (Jhn 14:15,16).

PS: If I am also locked out of this topic, PM me and I will try to reply to your comment or any questions you may have.
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#2 Post by coccus ilicis » 8 months ago

Who is the Harlot and who is the Lamb?
Rev 17:5,14

Dear Readers,

As I said in post 1 above, I have been locked out of the DDT forum for days on end. Bobcat and Apollos are working hard to eliminate the problem, but I am not sure that they can remedy it. I have since discovered that certain words and phrases in a post prevent me from posting. I still have yet to figure out the exact words that trigger the message: No route found for "GET /posting.php" (from "posting.php?mode=post&f=2"), as happened with this post also, until I changed one paragraph, after which it allowed me to preview and post. It is quite possible that forums such as this, like everything else, are now being censored. This is a sign of the times we live in, and part of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, Dan 12:7

In post 9 here, Gogh had asked about the king of the north in the time of the end, and I said
The only reliable pivotal date to work from is given at Dan 11:40 ...And in the time of the end the king of the south will engage with him, [the king of the north], in a pushing. This pushing refers to WW1, WW2 and the subsequent cold war, at the end of which only one king remains, the king of the north
And I asked the question, What had changed?

The 8th beast's agenda is to change the world the way we see it. Unlike the 7th beast, it is not unipolar, but portrays itself as all-inclusive, with all governments having a say in how the world is run. It does not pretend to be Christian and yet it is God’s servant doing his will. The horns/kings/governments of this beast ...have one thought and so they give their authority to the beast ...And the ten horns ...They will hate the harlot and make her devastated and naked, For God put it in their heart to carry out his one thought by giving their kingdom to the beast until the words of God have been accomplished, (Rev 17:16,17).

Which begs the question, Who is the harlot that also holds the reigns of this 8th beast, and why does it battle with the Lamb, (Rev 17:14)? Getting the answer right is all-important.

At Rev 17:15,18 it says: The waters that you see, where the harlot is sitting mean peoples and crowds and nations and tongues ...The woman whom you see means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.

And I caught sight of a woman arrayed in purple and scarlet sitting on a scarlet coloured beast that was full of blasphemous names, and that had seven heads and ten horns, (Rev 17:3). This seven-headed ten-horned beast, with one of its heads slaughtered to death, is the one described at Rev 13:1,3.
And a mouth speaking great things was given it and authority to act forty-two months. And it opened its mouth in blasphemies against God to blaspheme his name and his residence and even those residing in heaven, (Rev 13:5,6,7). The woman that rides it is drunk with the blood of the holy ones and witnesses of Jesus. So she has existed from ancient times right up to this day, (Rev 17:5,6; cf Rev 17:9,10).

Before the 8th beast, she had ridden the 7th seven-headed, unipolar beast, which saw itself as the Christian saviour of the world. It is described thus: I saw another beast ascending out of the earth and it had two horns like a lamb but it began speaking with a dragon’s mouth. This pseudo-Christian beast is the one that made fire come down out of heaven by dropping atom bombs on Nagasaki and Hiroshima, and it is the one that sponsored and supported the rise of the slaughtered healed head, Israel, (Rev 13:12,13). As a consequence people said: "Who is like the beast and who can do battle with it?”. And NATO was formed. The North Atlantic Treaty Organization, also called the North Atlantic Alliance, is an intergovernmental military alliance between 27 European countries, 2 North American countries, and 1 Eurasian country. The organization implements the North Atlantic Treaty that was signed on 4 April 1949, Wikipedia. These two militarized entities comprise the king of the north in the time of the end of Dan 11:40-43.

Rev 17:5 And on her forehead was written a name, a mystery: Babylon the Great, the mother of the harlots and the disgusting things of the earth. Although this mother of the harlots has changed mounts to the 8th beast, she still holds the reigns and she exerts her will over this beast also, and causes it to battle with the Lamb.

But who is the Lamb that she is so intent on destroying? (Rev 17:14).

Jesus spoke Hebrew, which was then translated into Greek. Two different Greek words and two different Hebrew words are rendered lamb in English. As can be seen here. At Rev 17:14 the Gr. word is 721 arnion, rendered lamb in English and at Isa 53:7 the Gr. word is 286 amnos, also rendered lamb. 286 Amnos is a translation of Heb. 7716 seh, one of a flock, a sheep or a goat, as at Isa 53:7. And 721 arnion is a translation of the Heb. word 3532, kebes - a lamb, as at Jer 11:19 in the next picture. Whenever this has been done in scripture, for whatever reason it has served to obscure what is written and we are now living in the time of the end when what has been hidden is being revealed, (Dan 12:4,9).

Image

Lamb/kebes/arnion at Jer 11:19 is the same Greek word for lamb in the 28 verses of Revelation where it occurs
Image

Sacrifices of lambs/kebes were required during the installation of the high priest. First, the Ram of atonement for the priest's own sins was offered, and then they were to offer up a kebes/lamb, one in the morning and one in the evening each day of the installation procedure, (Ex 29:38). Apart from sacrifices and references to a literal lamb, there are just a few other places in the OT where Heb. lamb/kebes 3532 / Gr. 721 lamb/arnion occurs. Namely at Jer 11:19; 50:45; Jn 21:15. One might think it's pedantic to point out the difference, (Google: pedantic, excessively concerned with minor details or rules; over-scrupulous). But it does matter. These verses enable us to understand why the harlot was, and still is, fixated on destroying the lamb and any of his followers.

So let's read these prophetic verses in context.

Jer 11:19
The message of Jeremiah chapter 11 is addressed to the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem ... a conspiracy has been found among the men of Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem. They have returned to the error of their forefathers, who refused to obey my words, but who themselves walked after other Gods, [cf. De 31:25,27,29; 32:15,16,17,18], therefore I am bringing against them a calamity that they will not be able to get out of.
...Jehovah the planter of you has spoken against you a calamity on account of the badness of the house of Israel and the house of Judah, that they have committed on their own part ... Jehovah himself informed me that I may know at that time to see their dealings. And I am like a male lamb an intimate one, that is brought to the slaughter, and I did not know it was against me that they brought their schemes
, (Jer 11:2,9,10,11,17,18,19).
Also, read Jeremiah chapter 19 which is addressed to the kings of Judah: and I must make void the counsel of Judah and Jerusalem in this place and I will cause them to fall by the sword before their enemies and by the hand of those seeking their soul. And I will give their bodies as food for flying creatures of the heavens and the beasts of the earth. And I will make this city an object of astonishment, (Jer 19: 3,7 cf. Rev 17:16,17,18; 19: 17,19).

Jer 50:45
This message concerns the harlot mother, Babylon … Tell it among the nations and publish it. And lift up a signal; publish it, hide nothing, O men. Say, 'Babylon has been captured' … for against her has come up a nation out of the north. It is one that makes her land an object of astonishment so that there proves to be no one dwelling in her … in those days at that time the sons of Israel ...and the sons of Judah together will come ...weeping as they walk, and for Jehovah their God they will seek ... their own shepherds have caused them to wander about, (Jer 50:2-6). This description fits what happens after old Jerusalem is destroyed, cf. Mt 24:15-2. Also see, Zech 8:20,21,23 cf.Rev 21:2.
Look! A people is coming from the north: a great nation and grand kings will be aroused from the remotest parts of the earth … they are set in array as one man for war against you, O daughter of Babylon ... The king of Babylon heard a report about them, (Jer 50: 41-43) This is a description of the ten horns of the 8th beast who hate the harlot and make her devastated and naked, (Rev 17: 15,16,17; cf. Dan 11:44,45) ... Therefore hear, O men, the counsel of Jehovah that he has formulated against Babylon ... Surely the lambs, [Gr arnion/Heb kebes], of the flock will be dragged about, and on account of them he will cause their abiding place to be desolated,(Jer 50:45). Their abiding place being Babylon the great, the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth, (Rev 17:4,5,18)

And in the final scripture of those listed above, (Jer 11:19; 50:45; Jn 21:15), at Jhn 21:15, the little lambs/kebes that are sacrificed at the installation of the priest are identified. Jesus said: Simon Peter … do you love me more than these, [the fish they had for breakfast]. He said, Yes, Lord, you know I have affection for you.” He said to him “FEED my lambs.”. Even now, Many of these lambs still abide in the woman's city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth, (Rev 17:18). Her mistreatment of them causes Jehovah to make their abiding place desolate, (Jer 50:45,46). And so he tells them ... Get out of her my people if you do not want to share in her sins and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues, (Rev 18:4) .
LRW~

Marina
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#3 Post by Marina » 8 months ago

My thoughts in response.

WT was an abiding place for Christians. It was also Jewish - subtly we were encouraged to work for salvation rather than appreciate we had the free gift of forgiveness. Also Jesus as the Messiah was covertly replaced by 1914 and a Messianic New World Order.

C T Russell was in favour of Zionism - Joseph Rutherford later turned against the Jews.

In my own area I found a number who came from a Jewish background.

WT Bible study did provide compelling information that was not available in mainstream churches because churches tended not to focus on the Old Testament. But it is necessary for the Christian to understand the Old Testament.

Over the years people have joined and left WT. But now more than ever, the failures of such corporate structures is evident.

WT pointed to the faults of all the other churches and pretended it was different. To find out it is no different is a massive, stunning shock to most of us. Almost unbelievable except that you see it first hand. And even when you see it, you never get over it. For it is a monumental betrayal of trust. So now it is not possible to abide within its structure.

That said - how many have left and in leaving have spread far and wide that compelling information that WT did possess. That in-depth knowledge of the Old Testament. Even the Christians in earlier times (say 1400-1770s?) had sought out the Jews to help them translate from Hebrew. As persecutions came from the Spanish Inquisition some Jews converted to hide as if Catholics. Some others threw their lot in with the Protestants and fled off to America.

So a point in time came and Israel was in part returned to the Jews - but who are the Jews, except those whose praise comes from the True God, Jehovah? And what values does Jehovah praise? Those of His Son Jesus Christ.

(Matthew 3:16-17) . . .After being baptized Jesus immediately came up from the water; and, look! the heavens were opened up, and he saw descending like a dove God’s spirit coming upon him. 17 Look! Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: “This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved. . .

If one does not get praise from God, how can he or she be a Jew? If not a Jew, then be as Abraham before the covenant - back to Ur of the Chaldeans. Back to Babylon.
Marina


Bobcat
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#5 Post by Bobcat » 8 months ago

as happened with this post also, until I changed one paragraph, after which it allowed me to preview and post. It is quite possible that forums such as this, like everything else, are now being censored.

I suspect that something about the host server (security wise) has changed. I've had the same problem. Something in the text or in the end of line control codes is causing an upset. But I haven't been able to isolate it yet. After several attempts to narrow down the problem the forum will crash. So I try not to experiment anymore for the sake of keeping the forum up.

Apollos has people looking into it. So hopefully, in the end, things will get back to working well.


Bobcat

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#6 Post by coccus ilicis » 8 months ago

Bobcat wrote: 8 months ago
as happened with this post also, until I changed one paragraph, after which it allowed me to preview and post. It is quite possible that forums such as this, like everything else, are now being censored.

I suspect that something about the host server (security wise) has changed. I've had the same problem. Something in the text or in the end of line control codes is causing an upset. But I haven't been able to isolate it yet. After several attempts to narrow down the problem the forum will crash. So I try not to experiment anymore for the sake of keeping the forum up.

Apollos has people looking into it. So hopefully, in the end, things will get back to working well.


Bobcat

Thank you Bobcat, it is working well now.

When the same message came up, I started again, copying and pasting what I had written paragraph by paragraph, in this way isolating the paragraph I had written. I wish I could send you the original wording of the paragraph. The rewritten version is the one in the post above that starts with
The 8th beast's agenda is to change the world the way we see it. Unlike the 7th beast, it is not unipolar, but portrays itself as all-inclusive
That's when I realized that certain words and phrases triggered the response no route found.

It wouldn't surprise me that this forum is being censored. For instance, the youtube of Benjamin Freedman’s 1961 Speech on the Origins of WWI & WWII that I posted in a reply to Marina, is now classified as hate speech. Interestingly the video of his speech is still available online, which begs the question as to the identity of the owners of this and possibly other bible forums.
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#7 Post by coccus ilicis » 8 months ago

Marina wrote: 8 months ago My thoughts in response.
...
WT Bible study did provide compelling information that was not available in mainstream churches because churches tended not to focus on the Old Testament. But it is necessary for the Christian to understand the Old Testament ...
The 1984 NWT translation was the milestone that pointed the way on how the teaching of Jesus completed the Torah/Law. Yes, the WT org. was wrong with regard to a number of things, but that was what they understood at that time. But to their shame, when they did see their error, rather than owning up to their mistake they disfellowshipped whistleblowers.

In 1984 when the NWT of the Holy Scriptures was released it caused a stir in biblical academia. I sometimes refer to Daniel B. Wallace's Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics in my post when dealing with Greek verbs, i.e. the aorist. Here is the link to a youtube video dealing with what he has to say about Bible translations. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjSBnZSa1oQ

In the video, he says the following about the 1984 NWT of the Holy Scriptures:
Image

Although he says it facetiously. What he says is absolutely correct. But what does this same comment indicate about other Bible translations? Yes, the NWT is as close to the original wording as they could get. And, yes, it has changed the original text, i.e. reinserting the name Jehovah where it quotes the OT. Moses also added Jehovah's name retrospectively to the Genesis account where he thought it necessary to distinguish him from the other Gods worshipped at that time. Yes, they adjusted the text to the narrative that they believed at that time, but that is what all Bible translators have done from around 450 BCE to this day. The difference with the NWT is that as Wallace says: it is the most slavishly literal word for word translation there is. And that is why I prefer it.

In 1984 translators had to laboriously look up the meaning and origins of each word in concordances and lexicons. This is now available at the click of a mouse at biblehub and other online lexicons. And if one is not blinded by religious dogma one can instantly spot belief-based alterations to the text, as I have demonstrated in post 2 above. The initial changes to the text were made by the Sopherim around 450 BCE. Later the Greek Septuagint, a Greek translation of the OT, circa 283 BCE, (cf. Dan 8:22,23,24,25), laid the foundation for Christan dogmas that produce comments like those in the video clip above.

The emendations of the Sopherim were not done in bad faith, The Torah -Tikkunei Soferim and the Ironic Emendation of Rashi's Interpretation. But were done in an effort to make sense of the original. And that is still being done today. But we have come to understand that God's word, as in the original text, is precise: ...Every saying of God is refined. He is a shield to those taking refuge in him. Add nothing to his words that he may not reprove you and that you may not have to be proved a liar, (Prv 30:5,6; Ps 12:6;18:30). This admonition, though ignored for two and a half millennia, is being brought to our attention in the time of the end. Daniel was told, to Make secret the words of this book until the time of the end. Many will rove about and knowledge will become abundant. Today Jehovah has made sure that those who have woken up have access to this knowledge.

Jesus had come to shine a light on the world, saying; … we must do the works of him that sent me while it is day; the night is coming when no one can do any work. As long as I am in the world, I am the world's light, (Jhn 9:4,5) ... The light of the world will be among you a little while longer. Walk while you have the light so that darkness will not overpower you. He that walks in the darkness does not know where he is going, (Jhn 12:35).

But why did God allow the alterations to his word?

He not only allowed it but Jesus indicates that God knew it would happen and made it happen as a basis for judgment because they loved the darkness rather than the light ... For he that practises vile things hates the light and does not come to the light, in order that his works may not be reproved. But he that does what is true comes to the light in order that his works may be manifest as having been in harmony with God, (Jhn 3:19-21).

The error of those that altered the bible is being exposed and they are reproved. But they did so in ignorance, even as church leaders and bible instructors have done for millennia. We are after all little people who only know what they have been taught to believe. But when we wake up and see what has happened, what do we do? Do we cleanse and whiten ourselves, or do were refuse to come to the light., (Dan 12:2,4,8,9,10). That is the question that would-be holy ones must answer.

The kingdom of the heavens becomes like a man, a king who makes a wedding feast for his son.
And he sends his slaves to tell those whom he has invited that everything is ready and that they should come. But one after another they beg off, they are too busy with this or that. Some even go so far as to beat up the king's slaves and kill them. Enraged the king sends out his army to kill those murderers and destroy their city. And then tells is slaves to go out to the roads leading out of that city and to invite all whom they find, both wicked and good. And the room is filled with wedding guests But before starting the ceremony the king comes to inspect those invited and he sees one amongst them, one that isn't dressed in a marriage garment. And asks him how he had managed to get in without a marriage garment. The man can't answer, he has no excuse. So the king tells his slaves to bind him hand and foot and to throw him into the darkness outside, (Mt 22:2-13).

Yes, it's an illustration, and told like this it sounds like a children's story. But no one, not even an atheist, can deny that Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 CE and Jews were scattered. The second half of the story is in process of being fulfilled right now.
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#8 Post by coccus ilicis » 8 months ago

In post 2 above I said concerning translation changes made in the Bible:
Whenever this has been done in scripture, for whatever reason it has served to obscure what is written and we are now living in the time of the end when what has been hidden is being revealed, (Dan 12:4,9)


It must be remembered that at the time of the Jewish exile in Babylon their bible consisted of numerous handwritten scrolls which they took with them to Babylon. Daniel writes: In the first year of Darius the Mede ...I myself discerned … the number of years concerning which the word of Jehovah had occurred to Jeremiah for fulfilling the devastation of Jerusalem, [namely], seventy years, (Dan 9:2). This indicates that it was only after Babylon had fallen to the Medes and Persians that he was able to read what Jeremiah, who had remained in Jerusalem had written.

When they returned to rebuild Jerusalem they started to make copies of their precious holy manuscripts. And in Post 7 above I said concerning the changes introduced by the Sopherim/copyists
The emendations of the Sopherim were not done in bad faith … But were done in an effort to make sense of the original
There is an immense difference between the Greek and Jewish textual alterations. The Soferim altered the text only when the honor of God was involved. The Alexandrians changed it whenever it was not in conformity with the manners of the courts of the Ptolemies, or the customs of certain Greeks .... In short, the scribes may have believed God’s honor to be more important than the inviolate nature of the biblical text ...
Moving ahead to medieval times, let us examine Rashi’s attitude to such “corrections,” as demonstrated in his commentary to the story of the visiting angels and God’s conversation with Abraham about Sodom (Genesis 18:22)
  • Gen 18:16 The men set out from there and looked toward Sodom, Abraham walking with them to see them off
  • Gen18:22The men went on from there to Sodom, while Abraham remained standing before YHWH
How could Abraham “remain standing before YHWH,” when we last heard that he was accompanying the men as they walked off toward Sodom?

The 1984 copy of the NWT Study Bible refers to this change at Gen18:22 in the footnotes.

So changes crept into the texts to make sense of what was written at any given time. So that is when they started to ignore what was at Prv 30:5,6; Ps 12:6;18:30 Every saying of God is refined. He is a shield to those taking refuge in him. Add nothing to his words that he may not reprove you and that you may not have to be proved a liar?

Today we have all these Old Testament writings in one book. Paul wrote Timothy about them saying ...all writings/scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for reproving and setting things straight, (2Tim 3:16). And so we understand that what God says in one place, i.e. Prov 30:5.6 applies to the entire body of the writings of the Old Testament. But the Jews appear to view these holy writings as separate and distinct from one another.


Today we are living in 'the time of the end,' when what has been hidden is being revealed, (Dan 12:1,4,9), a time when changes to the original Hebrew text are revealed with a click of the mouse button, as demonstrated in post 2, above.

Here is another change that has only served to obscure the consistency of God's words, It concerns the prophecy at Dan 9:24-27, see pics below.
There are seventy seventy that have been determined upon your people and upon your holy city to terminate the transgression and seal up sin and to make atonement for error, and to bring in righteousness for times indefinite, and to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the Holy Holy, Dan 9:24. Ignore the English rendering and the vowel points under the Hebrew text which were added much later.

Image

Compare these verses with Lev 12:5
Image

As one can clearly see the word rendered weeks in English, is Hebrew שְׁבֻעַ֖יִם shboim / seventy.

At Dan 9:25 it says: Also know and have insight from the going forth of the word to return and build Jerusalem until the messianic prince there will be seven seventy שְׁבֻעַ֖יִם shboim, and sixty-two seventy שְׁבֻעַ֖יִם shboim .

Week שָׁב֣וּעַ sabua only occurs at Dan 9:27 ... And he must keep the covenant in force for the many for one week שָׁב֣וּעַ sabua, and at the half of the week, he shall cause gift offering and sacrifice to cease.

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But if we are to abide by the admonition given at (Prv 30:5,6; Ps 12:6;18:30), what does seventy seventy of Dan 9:24 and seventy at Le 12:6 stand for or mean?

In the right-hand column of the biblehub site, one can clearly see that שָׁבֻעֹת֙ sevens/weeks. (plural) and שְׁבֻעַ֖יִם seventy are two different words We also notice that Lev 12:5 seventy is completely out of place in the list of verses here, where seven/week occurs, shabua – period seven days

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A literal reading Lev 12:5 is as follows: ...Now if she should bear a female she must then be unclean seventy as during her menstruation, for sixty-six days more she will stay with the blood of her cleansing. So all that can be said from this is that the seventy concerns a period of cleansing connected to menstruation. For a male child, she was unclean for seven days, and if she gave birth to a female child she was to be unclean seventy, the sixty-six days inserted here show that it has prophetic significance.

Interestingly periods of menstruation are also referred to at 5732. iddan time as at Dan 2:8,9,21;3:15;4:16,23 25, 32; 7:12,25 How so? Scrolling down the left-hand of this link to Strongs Concordance, it says: time (Aramaic) from a root corresponding to that of ed; a set time; … see HEBREW ed At this link it shows that it only occurs in one place in the bible, namely Isa 64:4 ...And we have become like someone unclean, all of us, and all our acts of righteousness are lik a garment of menstruation, and we shall fade away like leafage … and our errors will carry us away like the wind... So it appears that 'times' in the listed verbs of Danie,l refer to periods of uncleanness or menstruation, even as at Lev 12:5.
LRW~

AmosAU
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#9 Post by AmosAU » 8 months ago

Hi CI,

You are bringing out some good thoughts here.

Regards, Amos.

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#10 Post by coccus ilicis » 8 months ago

AmosAU wrote: 8 months ago Hi CI,

You are bringing out some good thoughts here.

Regards, Amos.
Thanks, Amos, it was the time for it to happen.

The times we are living in, continued.

In post 8, above I said
At Dan 9:25 it says: Also know and have insight from the going forth of the word to return and build Jerusalem until the messianic prince there will be seven seventy שְׁבֻעַ֖יִם shboim, and sixty-two seventy שְׁבֻעַ֖יִם shboim .
Week שָׁב֣וּעַ sabua only occurs at Dan 9:27 ... And he must keep the covenant in force for the many for one week שָׁב֣וּעַ sabua, and at the half of the week, he shall cause gift offering and sacrifice to cease.
It sounds nonsensical, doesn't it? But if we are to abide by the admonition given at (Prv 30:5,6; Ps 12:6;18:30), what does seventy seventy of Dan 9:24 and seventy at Le 12:6 stand for or mean?

Isaiah indicates it refers to periods of menstrual uncleanness (see Lev 12:5 in post 8).
If only you had ripped the heavens apart, that you had come down, that on account of you the very mountains had quaked ...in order to make your name known to your adversaries, that on account of you the nations might be agitated ... When you did fear-inspiring things for which we could not hope. When you came down. On account of you the mountains themselves quaked,(Isa 64:1-3),
Compare.
... and a great shaking occurs; and the sun becomes as black as sackcloth of hair and the entire moon becomes blood and the stars fall from heaven to the earth, as when a fig tree casts its unripe figs by a wind being shaken, and the heaven is parted as a scroll that is being rolled up, and every mountain and every island are move from their places, (Rev 6:12-14).

Isa 64:4-6 ...And from time long ago none have heard, nor has an eye itself seen אֱלֹהִים֙ Elohim/Gods besides you, except you, that acts for the one that keeps in expectation of him. You have met the one rejoicing, doing righteousness, [singular masc. it could be a reference to Jesus], those who keep remembering you in your own ways, [could be a reference to his chosen], Look! You, yourself became indignant while we kept sinning, [comp. Isa 54:7,8] - in them a long time, and we need to be saved. And we have become like someone unclean, all of us and all our acts of righteousness are like a garment of menstruation

It appears this prophecy may be in the course of being fulfilled now, and that the sixth seal is about to be opened, (Rev 6:12)

And we shall fade away like leafage ... And there is no one calling upon your name, no one rousing himself to lay hold on you; for you have concealed your face from us and you cause us to melt by the power of our error ...
Do not be indignant, O Jehovah, to the extreme. And do not forever remember our error. Look, now, please: we are all your people ...Your own holy cities have become a wilderness, Zion a wilderness
, [uninhabited, a description of christendom's meeting places], Jerusalem a desolate waste,, [comp. Mt 24: 15-21] ... In the face of these things will you continue to hold yourself in check, O Jehovah? Will you stay still and let us be afflicted in the extreme? (Isa 64:7,9-12)

How long these periods of seventy seventy are, and when they began, is impossible to tell.

Gen 7:11,24 and Gen 8:3-4 indicate that at the time of the flood the length of a year was 360 days. Now we have a 365 day year. The calendar is thought to have changed during the reign of Hezekiah. See: The 360 day year
Archeologists have discovered that nearly all societies used a 360 day calendar until around the 8th century BC, which would be about the time of Hezekiah. Jewish tradition teaches that the calendar changed when he was king.
... And this shall be the sign from Jehovah that Jehovah shall perform this word that he as spoken: "Here I am making the shadow of the steps that had gone down on the steps [of the stairs] of Ahaz by the sun retrace backward ten steps." And the sun gradually went backward ten steps on the steps[ of the stairs] it had gone down, (NWT Isa 38:7,8).
Judaism teaches that this was when the length of the year changed from 360 days to 365. The ancient sundial had 720 steps, and went back 10. 10 parts in 720 is the same as 5 in 360. The Mayan calendar went from 12 months of 30 days to 18 months of 20 days, then to a 365 day calendar in the 4th century BC. It took them about 400 years to realize their calendar was off and needed adjusting
  • The Rigveda, an ancient Indian writing dated 1700–1100 BC, records the year as lasting 360 days at the time it was written (300-1000 years before Hezekiah)
  • The 360 Day Year in Mesopotamia" by Lisa Brack-Bernsen (Regensburg University) documents from numerous ancient Semetic writings how many societies in the mid-east region had a 360 day year in very ancient times
... Revelation talks about a 360 day year. It also talks about stars falling from the skies and the sun being darkened and the moon being darkened and.......well......it sounds like the whole universe will be shaken from these events. So much so that perhaps one of the signs of the end times may be that the earth's orbit will shift to a 360 day year at some point in the future. Right now the length of the year is slowly shrinking. The earliest measurements were 365.2422 days and now it's under 365.242. So maybe if we just wait long enough it'll go back to that orbit anyway without any intervention.

Who knows, at any rate, we'll first have to survive into the new heavens and earth to see it.

I have let myself be searched for by those who asked [for me], I have let myself be found by those who have not looked for me. I have said "Here I am, here I am to a nation that was not calling on my name," [cf. Mt 3:9].
I have spread out my hands all day long to a stubborn people those who are walking in a way that is not good after their own thoughts, the people offending me right to my face constantly ... these are a smoke in my nostrils, a fire burning all day long ... And I will bring forth out a Jacob a seed and out of Judah a hereditary possessor, [singular, a reference to Jesus], of my mountains. And my chosen servants, [plural], must take possession of her ... For I am creating a new heavens and a new earth, (Isa 65:1,2,3,5,9,17).
...And I saw a great white throne and the one seated on it. From before him the heaven and earth fled away, and no place was found for them ... And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the former heaven and the former earth had passed away, (Rev 20:11; 21:1).
LRW~

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