Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#161 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 week ago

Spotlight on the Two Witnesses:

On a different note, in post 95 to post 104 - What are the hallmarks of those who are chosen? I discussed what is known thus far about the chosen at the time of the end. It is a complex subject and difficult to understand. Only some will master this new song, (Rev 14:3), and they will not fully master it until they are called to heaven. But now the time has come to shine a spotlight on that part of the new song that can be mastered now.

Who are the two witnesses whom Jesus empowers to prophesy amongst those serving at the altar of God's house?

As to who they will turn out to be, Paul had said: For the eager expectation of the creation is awaiting for the revealing of the sons of God, (Rom 8:19), which won't happen until after the two witnesses are killed, raised, and called up to heaven at the time of the blowing of the 7th trumpet, (Rev 11:11,12,15). And talking about this, Paul had said: ...and just as we have borne the image of the one made of dust, we shall bear also the image of the heavenly one ... Look I tell you a sacred secret:  We shall not all fall asleep in death but we shall all be changed in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised up incorruptible and we shall be changed, (1Cor 15: 50,51,52). The two witnesses are already doing their work, but they have not yet been named.

The reason no one is sure about the identity of the two witnesses is that we are not meant to know who they are. These ones will be adopted as sons of God and brothers of the Son of man. It would be easy if we knew who they were, but when the Son of Man comes in his glory, neither the sheep nor the goats know who these ones are (Mt 25:38-40,44,45). Neither do they themselves know.

Neither did Paul know. All he knew was that the Pentecostal Spirit was a token of things to come, but he and those whom he addressed were still eagerly awaiting the adoption as sons, (Rom 8:23). The problem with NT Greek is that translators have rendered Kione Greek, aorist verbs, as past completed tenses, and it makes people think that this adoption as sons has already occurred when it hasn't. And other than a few well-known named individuals such as Abraham and Isaac, (Mt 8:11), we don't know who is at the base of the altar, (Rev 6:9-11). And we don't know who will complete that number. But we do know that prior to the 7th trumpet, the ones completing the number of 144,000, will make up the body of the two witnesses that Jesus causes to prophesy for 1260 days, (Rev 11:3).

What Jesus said to these potential adoptees at the last Passover he celebrated with them is recorded at Mt 26:26, 27,28, 29 & Mk 14:17,16,19,20,22-26. The two accounts are identical, except at Mk 14:20 it adds the detail that indicates more than just the twelve were present at that celebration, Mark being one of those present. Jesus had just told them that one of them would betray him and this shocked them. It says: They are shocked and say to him one by one, surely it is not I, is it?. Most translations have grieved here. The Greek word 3076 rendered grieved, first occurs in the LXX at Gen 4:5, where Cain is shocked that God looked with favour on Abel's offering and not his. The rug has been pulled from under their feet and so they anxiously ask, It is not I is it?. And Jesus says: It is one of the twelve who is dipping with me in the one bowl. By saying it is one of the twelve (Mk 14:20), he indicates that others, including Mark, were present at that meal, (cf. Ex12:4).

The account at John similarly indicates that more than the twelve were present. The secret disciple whom Jesus loved, being one of them ( Jhn 21:20,21,24). And it is quite possible that the Passover was celebrated at his house, as it appears that Jesus had made prior arrangements with a close friend who, unlike the twelve, knew he was going to be arrested that night. Jesus had told his disciples, Go into the city of So-and-so and say to him. The Teacher says; my appointed time is near, (Mt 26:17,18; see also Mk 14: 13-15 & Lu 22:7-12). What a strange thing to say, 'go to the city of so-and-so.' Who was this so-and-so? It appears that they had forgotten who he was by the time the gospel accounts were recorded.

This close friend, the secret disciple Jesus loved records all that Jesus did and said that night in great detail, he might have even had a scribe there to record all that was said, (cf. Jhn 21: 24). His account starts with the words: … Now because he/Jesus knew before the festival of the Passover that the hour had come for him to move out of this world to the Father. As I said this is something the twelve did not know, nor did they understand when Jesus explained it to them, as he did that evening, see, Jhn 14:3,5. So whoever this close friend was, he not only understood what was going to happen and why, but also knew what the chief priests planned, (Jhn 11:47,48,49,50,57), which indicates he was privy to what went on behind closed doors of that circle. No wonder his name was withheld.

Anyway, his account of the last Passover starts at Jhn 13:1 and continues to Jhn 18:1. All he says concerning the actual bread and wine ritual is: So while the evening meal was going on, the Devil, having already put it into the heart of Judas Iscariot the son of Simon to betray him, (Jhn13:2). Again we see that this intimate friend of Jesus knew things the others didn't, (Mt 26:14,15). According to his account, nothing out of the ordinary was said or done during the actual Passover celebration. And he goes on to report all the important things that Jesus did and said that evening. But he does not mention the extraordinary supplementary statement recorded in Lu 22:28-30).

According to Luke's account, Jesus had also said: However, you are the ones that have stuck with me in my trials and I make a covenant with you, just as the Father has made a covenant with me for a kingdom,  that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel. Jesus either said this, or he didn't.

For the following reasons, we now know that this supplementary statement is pure fiction.
  • Neither Matthew, Mark nor the author of the 4th gospel would have missed such an extraordinary statement
  • It indicates the opposite of what Paul said concerning the chosen at Rom 8:19
  • And it conflicts with what Jesus said concerning those going to heaven to rule with him at Mt 20:23
  • And the statement implies that the ones present at that supper, would lord it over the 12 tribes listed at Rev 7:4-8, which is not corroborated elsewhere in scripture
But when there are conflicting statements in the bible, there is always a reason.

Luke's eyewitness is not named, so the veracity of his statement cannot be checked. From Acts 1:1) we know that the author of Luke, also wrote the book of Acts and that he was a travelling companion of Paul when Paul went to Rome to present his case before Caesar, circa 70 CE, (cf Acts 20:5). So any witness who claimed Jesus had said this, must have been present at that meal and would have been in his 70s or older. This person is not named, but the author of Luke believed him, (Lu 1:1-4). And what he said has been a stumbling block and the cause of much confusion.

In the illustration of the wheat and the weeds, the slaves of the householder had come to him and asked: Master did you not sow fine seed in your field? How, then, does it come to have weeds? And he said: “An enemy, a man does this, (Mt13:28).That man is not named. The slaves then ask him if they should go and pull out the weeds. And the master had said … No; that by no chance while collecting the weeds, you uproot the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest, and I will tell the reapers, First, collect the weeds and tie them into bundles for the burnup and then go gathering the wheat into my storehouse, (Mt 13:27 28,29,30).

The harvest is the conclusion of the system of things, (Mt13:39), But who is the enemy, the man who over-sowed the field with weeds? Is it the same one that put the words recorded at Lu 22:28-30 into Jesus's mouth?

Jesus tells us: … The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man … the field is the world and as for the fine seed these are the sons of the kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil. The harvest is the conclusion of the system of things, and the reapers are the angels. Therefore, just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things ... The Son of man will send forth his angels, and they will collect together from out of his kingdom all the things causing stumbling and persons doing lawlessness, and they will pitch them into the fiery furnace, (Mt 13: 37-41).

But before that happens the things causing stumbling and persons doing lawlessness must FIRST be collected together. The Son of man does this when he causes his two witnesses to prophesy amongst those serving at the altar of God's house for a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth, (Rev 11:3). Their prophesying causes the things causing stumbling and persons doing lawlessness to be collected together as described at Rev 11:8,9,10), in preparation for the burnup. Note the two witnesses, are dressed in sackcloth just like John the baptist/Elijah, (cf Mt 11:13,14,15; Mt 17:10,11).
But who are these two witnesses?

These are [symbolized by] the two olive trees and the two lampstands that are standing before the Lord of the earth, (Rev 11:4; Zech 4:12-14). And concerning them, at Zech 3:1, Zecheriah says, that Jehovah's angel proceeded to show me Joshua/Jesus the high priest standing before the angel of Jehovah and Satan standing at his right hand in order to resist him.

The two witnesses and Joshua are one and the same in the sense that they are Jesus's earthly representatives during the conclusion of the system of things, (Rev 11:3).

Jehovah's angel orders that their filthy garments be removed and replaced with clean ones. And Jehovah tells them: If it is in my ways that you will walk and if it is my obligation that you will keep, then also it will be you that will judge my house and Keep my courtyards and I shall certainly give you free access among those who are standing by, (Zech 3:1-7). The ones standing by, are the angelic persons of Zech 3:1. Even as Paul said: For all who are being led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you do not receive a spirit of bondage again but you receive a spirit of adoption as sons ... not only that but we, [Paul and his companions] ... Yes, we, ourselves groan within ourselves while we are earnestly awaiting the adoption as sons, (Rom 8:14,15,23) And at 1Cor 15:49 he says; Just as we bear the image of the one made of dust we also shall bear the image of the heavenly one. The underlined verbs are aorist overview verbs, which do not determine the time when something is done, i.e. if I say 'John sings,' it doesn't tell you when John sings.

If the ones that comprise the body of the two witnesses walk in God's ways and keep his obligations they will sit at Jesus' right and left hand when he comes into his kingdom, (Mt 20:23; Rev 11:12,15).

But before that happens their befouled garments are removed. The garments of those serving at the altar of God's house are befouled with the teaching of the man who oversowed the field with weeds that cause stumbling and are persons doing lawlessness. Jehovah says to them, ' If it is in my ways that you will walk, and if it is my obligations that you will keep, then also it will be you that will judge my house and also keep my courtyards and I will certainly give you access amongst those standing by [angelic ones}, (Zech 3:3-7). The prophesying of the two witnesses of Rev 11:3,4 and Zech 4:12,14, serves to separate those who walk in God's ways and keep his obligations from those who do not. The one making the necessary adjustment is clothed in a clean marriage garment,(Rev 6:1!), the one that doesn't isn't. He is cast into the darkness outside. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be, (Mt22:11,12,13).

World events indicate that we are now in the interim after those under the altar have been given their white robes and are waiting for their number to be filled of their fellow slaves and brothers who are about to be killed even as they had been, (Rev 6:11). But once the body of the two witnesses is on display in the great city that is in a spiritual sense called Sodom and Egypt, (Rev 11:8), the door will be shut, (Mt 25:8,9,10,11,12).
"For there are many invited but only a few chosen,", (Mt 22:14).

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#162 Post by coccus ilicis » 5 days ago

Spotlight on the darkness outside

in post 161 above, I said;
The prophesying of the two witnesses of Rev 11:3,4 and Zech 4:12,14, serves to separate those who walk in God's ways and keep his obligations from those who do not. The one making the necessary adjustment is clothed in a clean marriage garment,(Rev 6:1!), the one that doesn't isn't. He is cast into the darkness outside. There is where his weeping and the gnashing of his teeth will be, (Mt22:11,12,13)
For many are invited but few are chosen. When the Pharisees heard this they went their way and took counsel together in order to stop Jesus in his speech, (Mt 22:14,15). And so they sent their partisans to him to trap him in his speech but he turned the tables on them and exposed them, (Mt 22:16-21). Then he also turned the tables on the Sadducees, (Mt 22:-32). At that point, these two parties who had been at loggerheads with one another joined forces,(Mt 22:34). And testing him they asked what was the greatest commandment in the Law. And he said “'You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.' This is the first commandment. The second like it is this, 'You must love your neighbour as yourself.' On these two commandments, the whole Law and the prophets hang'", (Mt 22: 34-40, cf. De 6:5; Le 19:18). Those Jews were disregarding this most basic principle of the Law, (Mt 23:13-33).

And today Jews with the same mindset do the same work as their predecessors, but they have taken it a step further even as Moses had said they would: For I well know that after my death you will without fail act ruinously and you will certainly turn aside from the way I have taught you. And calamity will be bound to befall you at the close of the days because you will do what is bad in the eyes of Jehovah so as to offend him by the works of your hands, (De 31:29).

At Rev 21:8 it says concerning these ones, But as for the cowards and those without faith and those having become disgusting in their filth, the murderers, the deviant fornicators, and those practising spiritism and idolaters and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur.

Wikipedia - Jewish Views on Lying
However, in various biblical stories, those who lie and mislead are not necessarily condemned, and in some cases are praised. Biblical figures that engaged in deception include Abraham, Isaac, Simeon, and Levi..
But those instances occurred before they committed themselves to uphold the Law, which forbade lying, i.e. Lev 9:11.
Bava Metzia 23b-24a lists three exceptions where lying is permitted:[3][6][7]
  • It is permissible for a scholar to state he is unfamiliar with part of the Talmud, even if he is familiar (out of humility)
  • It is permissible to lie in response to intimate questions regarding one's marital life (as such things should be kept private)
  • Lying about hospitality received (to protect the host)
Yevamot 65b states that "It is permitted to stray from the truth in order to promote peace", and Rabbi Natan further argues that this is obligatory.[8]
Later views
Due to the principle of saving a life, in Jewish law, it is required to lie to save a life, such as withholding a diagnosis from a seriously ill patient[9] or concealing one's Jewish faith in a time of persecution of Jews.[10] It may also be required to lie in other cases where a positive commandment would be violated by telling the truth, as positive commandments in Judaism usually take precedence against negative ones.[9] Even in the cases where lying is acceptable, it is preferable to tell a technically true but deceptive statement or employ half-truth. It is also completely forbidden to lie habitually, to lie to a child (which would teach them that it was acceptable), and to lie in the court system.[5] ... Rabbi Eliyahu Dessler redefined "truth" to mean any statement which serves God and "falsehood" to mean any statement that harms God's interests. This would radically change Jewish views on lying.[11] ... According to Conservative rabbi Louis Jacobs, "the main thrust in the appeals for Jews to be truthful is in the direction of moral truth and integrity" although there is also "great significance to intellectual honesty".[3] Reconstructionist rabbi Fred Scherlinder Dobb stated in an interview, "There is no justification whatsoever in Jewish tradition for lies which are either sloppy, systemic or self-serving... every word we utter should reflect our values, and one of the highest of those values is truth."
, (underline & bold mine).

I have copied and pasted the above from the Wikipedia site. A site that has already been sanitized by a phalanx of Jewish editors hiding the more radical edicts that deal with lying to gentiles. That the internet including Wikipedia is sanitized is openly admitted by them, watch the embedded video on Israel's Internet Censorship Wars here: You will have to be quick, as the video is under constant attack, even as I write. Many links in this article have been blocked, so read and watch the video while you still can. At 3:28 they admit to infiltrating Wikipedia and show how it is done. This is what was meant at (Dan 12:7) where it speaks about the dashing of the power of the holy people to a finish, (Dan 12:7).

Here is a recent article: Digital warfare: Media experts sharpen tools to promote Israel amid a disinformation apocalypse. Disinformation is lying.

Much effort goes into promoting the lie. Movies and even documentaries are produced to mislead people into believing the lie. Paul had said concerning the period we are living in now, That the lawless ones' presence is according to the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and portents. And with every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing because they did not accept the love of the truth that they might be saved, (2Thess 2:9). This is not about religious truth of this as opposed to that doctrine. Satan has kept us busy and bloody-minded enough in that regard for millennia. No, what he is talking about is our time, when the manifestation of Jesus's presence is imminent, saying: Then indeed the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of this mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence, (2Thess 2:8). Jesus's spirit is now operative on those that love him and obey his commandments, (Jhn 14:15,16,25,26)

Here is an excerpt from the recent documentary, 'Soros.' He is a Jew and an atheist. He is in his nineties and here he reads from a prepared script, George Soros on Russia, China and the Fight of Our Lives: Remarks Delivered at Davos. 263,437 views, 26 May 2022. Open Society Founder and Chair George Soros painted a stark portrait of the global state of affairs in a speech at the 2022 World Economic Forum. Note, what he says concerning the bottom line at 26:36.

So a nuclear war with Russia a China is on the cards. Another Jew who spoke at Davos this year is Volodymyr Zelenskyy, President of Ukraine

Here is Putin's reply:

And on this site: Russia is not Bluffing you can watch the following videos and hear what others said at the UN on the 21st and 22nd of September:
  • Russia FM rejects Western accusations on Ukraine at Security Council
  • Biden UN Speech
  • Ukraine's President Zelenskyy addresses the United Nations General Assembly
  • UK Prime Minister Truss addresses the United Nations General Assembly
Will it culminate in an all-out nuclear war, or will they negotiate a new deal with the dissenting nations, led by Russia and China? President Xi Jinping Meets with Russian President Vladimir Putin, 2022-09-15 22:42.

If they do then the U.S. will be sidelined, (Dan 11:45), which is already part of the WEF Davos forum agenda. If you have access to the complete Soros documentary you will hear him talk about this. And they will put in place the multipolar beast described thus at (Rev 17:12,13,16,17), And the ten horns that you saw mean ten kings, who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast, [the one the harlot rides]. These have one thought and so they give their power and authority to the beast ... these will hate the harlot and make her devastated and naked, and will eat up her fleshy parts and completely burn her with fire. For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, even to carry out their one thought by giving their power to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.

Jesus speaking to his slaves whom he had told to keep on the watch, said: On this account you too prove yourselves ready because at an hour you do not think it to be, the son of man is coming. That warning also applies to us. So we will have to keep our wits about us. And keep in mind what Paul said: For you yourselves know that Jehovah's day is coming exactly as a thief in the night whenever it is that they are saying, 'Peace and Security!' Then sudden destruction will be instantly upon them, (1Thess 5:2,3)

Jehovah says: "Look I am making all things new." And those who conquer he will call his son. But as for the cowards and those without faith and those disgusting in their filth ... and all the liars, their portion will be in the lake that burns with fire and sulphur. This means the second death,(Rev 21:5,8). But it makes me wonder whether, when atheists like George Soros come face to face with the reality that God exists, being above all a pragmatist, they will turn around and serve God. It can't be ruled out.

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

#163 Post by coccus ilicis » 2 days ago

Continued from above. Here are two additional videos that help one understand why US domination is on the way out.

Global Capitalism: China vs. US - System Rising vs. Falling [September 2022]

Jeffrey Sachs: U.S. Policy & "West's False Narrative" Stoking Tensions with Russia, China

If the video does not play, try this direct link:

The question that arises is who is in the driver's seat. For God put it into their hearts to carry out his one thought, even to carry out their one thought, (Rev 17:17).

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