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Get out of her wrote: ↑10 months ago
Since neither your anger nor your line of reasoning makes any sense to me at all, I'm hoping you can do a much better job of helping me to understand either of them.
First of all Sol I'm absolutely not angry at you or anyone else for that matter. What I see and smell you doing is polishing your brass and trying to pass it off as gold. (Eze 22:20 KJV),
Brass has an odor gold does not. (Lev 26:31)
Get out of her wrote: ↑10 months ago
At least in the case of CI we seem to see some evidence that she is finally making an effort to actually think things through a bit more deeply and scripturally on this topic. (Ro 12:1) (Ac 17:11)
CI has the nose of a Bloodhound, and I'm sure what she is smelling now from you has NOT put her on a different trail or track.
Get out of her wrote: ↑10 months ago
Once again if you are genuinely serious about overturning my points with the scriptures,
And again, I will tell you nay, your mind is made up. You truly believe that you are one of Jehovah's prophets that has arrived just in time to save or at least gather together those that will listen to you. That's fine and I wish you well with your endeavor. (1Cor 14:2KJV)
Getting back to Revelation and where we are in the stream of time. After having sealed the utterances of the seven thunders John is told that this sacred secret would be brought to a finish just prior to the blowing of the seventh trumpet. At that time ... there will be no delay any longer ... But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound the trumpet, then would be completed the mystery/secret of God, which [he] proclaims to his own slaves the prophets, (Rev 10:3,6,7)
As you can see from the biblehub snip below, the 'proclaims/announces good news' is not a past-tense or completed action verb but is an overview verb of something that would happen just prior to the sounding of the seventh trumpet.
(strikethrough, arrows and added text mine)
So who are these slaves his prophets, to whom he proclaims what the seven thunders spoke?
A reed like a rod is given to John and he is told: Get up and measure the house/temple of God and the altar and those worshipping in it … And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a Thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth
And who are those worshipping at the altar?
In Jesus's day, those worshipping at the altar were those of whom Jesus said: Hence when making gifts at the altar, do not blow your trumpet ahead of you just as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to be glorified by men., (Mt 6:2,5). These ones were the ones of whom he also said: The Scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the seat of Moses ... They like the most prominent place at evening meals, and the front seats in the synagogues, and the greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called Rabbi by men. But you, do not you be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas you are all brothers. Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth for one is your Father, the heavenly one, (Mt 23:1,2,8,9).
The only reason we know what these holier-than-thou individuals worshipping at the altar believed and said, is because they took every opportunity, whenever people gathered around Jesus, to try to catch him out by asking awkward questions, the answer to which they thought would turn people against him, i.e. Mt 22:17; Jhn 8:1-9. When they failed to discredit him in this way they took counsel to kill him, (Mt 26:4; Jhn 11:53).
What was it that so disturbed them? After his resurrection of Lazarus, the chief priests and Pharisees gathered together saying: What are we to do because this man performs many signs? If we let him alone this way, they will all put faith in him. They could not deny the signs, and jealousy and preservation of their place were what drove them to take extreme measures, (Jhn 11:45,46,47,48,49, 50).
Jesus had said of those who would receive the spirit of truth: Most truly I say to you, He that exercises faith in me that one will also do the works I do; and he will do greater works than these, (Jhn 14:12,15,17). The symbolic two witnesses do not perform powerful signs, but they share the sacred secret of the good news that is being revealed to them to those serving that the altar of God's house world-wide. And as it was in Jesus's day, some of those serving at the altar pay heed, i.e. Nicodemus and Joseph of Arimathea, (Jhn 3:1;19:38). Others do not and turn on them. So it should not surprise us that when the Son of Man causes his two witnesses to preach the good news of the mystery of God, which is completely different from what has previously been believed, they would similarly be attacked by those serving at the altar.
It says concerning the two witnesses: And when they shall have completed their witnessing the beast that rises from the abyss, [cf Rev 17:8], will make war with them and conquer them and Kill them and the corpse of them will be on the broad way of the great city which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord is also impaled ... And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them, (Not in a good way but in the sense of schadenfreude - pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune) ... and enjoy themselves and send gifts to one another because these two prophets had tormented those dwelling on the earth, (Rev 11:7,8, 10).
The reaction of one of those serving at the altar started one month ago, with the pretext of asking for more information, using much the same tactic used by those who opposed Jesus, [cf.Mt 19:3,7], see post 114, here). And has continued relentlessly ever since, which indicates we are near to the time when the 2 witnesses will be killed, (Rev 11:7; Dan 12:7).
The measuring of Jehovah's house has been in progress for some time now. Just how long the 3½ days during which the corpse, (singular), of the two witnesses, is on display turns out to be, is unknown at present, but it is a much shorter period than the 1,260-day period of their prophesying, (Rev 11:3,11), and that is good news indeed.
And again, I will tell you nay, your mind is made up.
Well stranger if it is really true that you genuinely believe I am in the dark here on what are no less than life or death matters, then, I am truly grieved by your reply here. I am genuinely disturbed and saddened over it. It is nevertheless good to hear your words are not coming from a place of anger or hatred, particularly since you seem determined to only continue leveling claims and accusations that by your own admission you are unwilling to even attempt to substantiate in any manner at all, let alone with the scriptures. But since it is very important you understand why really every one of us should find your reply here even rather alarming, I feel compelled to better explain it.
First of all it would seem that for the third time on just this one thread alone I need to remind my brothers and sisters not only that this is not about the incredibly lowly and insignificant Sol or even "his mind being made up," but ultimately it has nothing to do with ANY of us either BEING right or wrong, or being PROVED right or wrong. Quite to the contrary, any genuine theocratic ministry has everything to do with establishing and defending what GOD'S WORD actually has to say on things, and by extension ,,,"letting GOD be found true"… and even if this would require that …"EVERY man be found a liar." (Ro 3:4) (Php 1:7)
Do some of us actually take ourselves so seriously that we imagine an endeavor to expose teachings as out of harmony with the Holy Scriptures should be for the purpose of perhaps proving that we are more knowledgeable or even more intelligent than others? By the same token would we REFRAIN from expending this time and effort simply because we are convinced that merely ONE among our precious brothers or sisters already "has their mind made up"? With all due love and respect, how could I possibly not be imagining Jehovah thinking we actually go out of our way at times to conduct ourselves in a small minded and self centered manner?! At this very moment how could he NOT see us as at times even bending over backwards to prove ourselves as prideful, unloving, and unrepentant?
The reason this thread has seemed to even break all records for views in the short amount of time it has been up is because your brothers and sisters genuinely both want and desperately NEED to finally learn the truth on this topic. If the problem here Stranger is you do not care enough about the eternal well being of your brother Sol to even bother making any effort at all with the scriptures to help him see how his understanding of them is seriously flawed, then by all means expend the effort on behalf of all the OTHER ones reading these posts who have begun to realize for some time now that they have only even been misled and deceived on really ALL Bible topics. And if it is only yourself that you are concerned with, then please at least do it for yourself! Are YOU not worth fully convincing one way or the other on topics that are literally a matter of life and death?!
You truly believe that you are one of Jehovah's prophets that has arrived just in time to save or at least gather together those that will listen to you. That's fine and I wish you well with your endeavor. (1Cor 14:2KJV)
Increasingly it seems evident that you are often not even really aware of the things I share with the scriptures here. This in turn begs the question of whether or not you even truly know exactly what it is you are opposing. As I continue to point out, while the incredibly lowly and insignificant Sol is indeed at least STRIVING to qualify as the final foretold manifestation of the figurative/spiritual "corpse" or "carcass" spoken of in accounts like Matthew 24:28 or Revelation 11:8, when it comes to sinful and imperfect humans Jehovah makes it very clear that even when they are recognized as genuine ministers of his, what they ultimately prove to be is in question until if or when they "endure till the end." (Mr 13:13) (Jas 1:12) Do you really even know what you are endeavoring to refute? and if not would that alone not serve as more than enough reason to expend the time and effort needed to support your claims with the scriptures?
As far as "saving" or "gathering" ones for salvation: Even if others at times make themselves available to assist him, ultimately it is only Jehovah who produces salvation and by extension does any gathering for it. And based alone on the fact that the name Jesus literally means –JEHOVAH'S salvation, we should all understand that whether it be the incredibly humiliated Sol or ANY "members of a HARLOT" who choose or at least endeavor to humbly and repentantly cooperate with Jehovah in once again transforming such ones into "members of the CHRIST," (1 Cor 6:15, 16) again, what they ultimately prove to be remains a question mark until if or when they …"endure till the end"… of their assigned ministry. (1 Cor 12:12) (Isa 1:21) (Jos 2:1, 3-7) (Mr 13:13) (Jas 1:12)
But aside from that, as I have pointed out before and even also in my last post on this same thread, we are no longer in the time frame identified as the "appointed times of the nations," which means on that basis alone we should not be expecting things to continue unfolding in exactly the same way they did previously. (Lu 21:24) The scriptures make it rather clear that the "gathering" you speak of here is foretold on this occasion to be conducted by the ones identified in accounts like 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, Matthew 24:31 and Daniel 12:3. I would make the case that these unimaginably glorious servants of Jehovah will prove rather different from the extremely devastated and humiliated Sol. But aside from the obvious fact that we would now be dealing with the long anticipated Millennial Reign, the scriptures provide indications that the ministry directed exclusively towards the anointed ones that always immediately precedes a much more tremendous one would on this occasion be somewhat distinct as well. (Mt 24:45)
At Matthew 24:37 Jesus informs us that this final foretold ministry towards Jesus' "brothers" would be "just as in the days of Noah." (Mt 25:40) Bear in mind that Noah never preached or prophesied to what was "typified" by the animals that would later be gathered into the ark. (He 8:5) (Joh 10:16) (Re 7:9, 14) Another thing that was unusual about this ministry however is that there was only ONE prophet of Jehovah performing the witnessing work on this occasion as opposed to the "TWO witnesses" that would be involved during the time of the "seven kings." (Re 11:3, 17:10)
We might recall however that this was not the only thing that made this prophesying of Moses somewhat different from the ones carried out during the "seven times." The fact is that in this symbolic representation of the ministry exclusively towards the POTENTIAL shepherding fold of Jehovah's nation, really NOBODY paid any heed to Jehovah's messages on this occasion. The only people on the earth who ended up accompanying Noah in the ark were the ones who were ALREADY WITH HIM before he even BEGAN this preaching work! With that in mind, could we not say that essentially the same would apply with the genuine theocratic ministers who would "come down from heaven" after this final foretold ministry to the …"lost sheep of the house of Israel" and its subsequent priestly offering foretold there at Revelation 14:15, 16? (Mt 10:5, 6 24:31) For those of us who aspire to eventually be included among the shepherding fold of Jehovah's nation, the fact is we can only HOPE on this occasion that additional ones among humankind will be chosen as heavenly "kings and priests" AFTER the final "blood inauguration" of a renewed "holy covenant" foretold there at Revelation 14:15, 16. (He 9:16-18, 26-28) (Da 11:30-32) (Re 20:6)
Yet another thing we might find noteworthy when it comes to the ministry to "Christ's domestics" foretold to accompany a "great tribulation" (Mt 24:31) that would be far beyond any "pangs of distress" (1 Th 5:3) associated with all the previous "births of the barren woman" (Jer 15:9) is this: We might notice that the "faithful steward" or "slave" mentioned as being "appointed over Christ's domestics" on this occasion is rendered as exactly that, namely in the singular rather than the plural. (Mt 24:45) (Compare Re 11:3)
These however are not the only ways in which this somewhat unique "birth" of the figurative "barren woman" is typified or prophetically illustrated for us in the Bible. (Jer 15:9) For those of us who might be interested in delving even deeper into the scriptures on this topic, I would strongly encourage them to go over the thread entitled—Joseph and Pharaoh vs Moses and Pharaoh; symbolic meanings.
Nevertheless, is it not true that we are once again actually considering even more scriptural confirmations that we no longer find ourselves in the time frame that the scriptures identify as that of foreign "exile" and "captivity" of God's people or otherwise with terms such as the "appointed times of the nations"? (Lu 21:24) In turn should this not give us even more reason to think twice about disregarding this 2,520 year time span the scriptures assign to it which Jeremiah pinpointed as beginning with the reign of ancient "King Jehoiakim"? (Jer 1:3) This is not to mention the time spans assigned to additional prophetic numbers associated with the foretold spiritual deaths AND "births" of God's kingdom. For those who have not done so already, I would strongly encourage them to consider the discussion entitled---Are we already experiencing the final foretold "Great Tribulation"? I go into all these prophetic numbers in relative detail with the scriptures towards the end of this particular thread.
Get out of her wrote: ↑9 months ago
And if it is only yourself that you are concerned with, then please at least do it for yourself! Are YOU not worth fully convincing one way or the other on topics that are literally a matter of life and death?!
Hi Sol,
Christian quality is displayed in the quality of one's character. You want to talk Bible I'll talk Bible, what I won't do is go hopscotching through the scriptures you quote for yourself. It's an easy thing to do but the congregation can and does get confused, then bored with those types of antics. (Gal 6:1 KJV)
This thread is about where we are in the stream of time and from the title I would say it's according to the book of Revelation. The Revelation of Jesus Christ. (Rev 1:1)
Who really is the stranger here? (Jn 10:5,27)
I'm sorry Sol, but your merry go round of deaths and births of Jehovah's symbolic kingdoms is not what's at hand here. (Rev 1:3 KJV) The time of the nations or gentile times may or may not be over, we just don't know. One thing is for sure, there are several present nations that would argue that their time is only in it's infancy and far from over.
Would that be Satan running his big mouth and flexing and attempting to expand his air space? (Eph 2:2)
I'll talk to you Sol but you're not the teacher and neither am I. (Matt 4:23,26) Shorten your posts and be more down to Earth here where we are all at right now and You might have me believing you are thriving to be a Christian even an instructional Christian. (Heb 13:17)
Whether or not you understand this post it's what you get from me. It took me a little while to write up this way and I'll stand by it. Please no fake tears Sol and please don't put it on my shoulders how all the brothers and sisters here should be alarmed because of what I say. (Gal 6:5 KJV)
I am genuinely encouraged to see that you have changed your mind Stranger and decided to at least attempt to "put your money where your mouth is" as the saying goes. Since there is perhaps finally something here to actually address with the scriptures, let's by all means begin doing exactly that.
Stranger wrote:
Christian quality is displayed in the quality of one's character. You want to talk Bible I'll talk Bible, what I won't do is go hopscotching through the scriptures you quote for yourself. It's an easy thing to do but the congregation can and does get confused, then bored with those types of antics. (Gal 6:1 KJV)
First of all you refer to the "Christian quality" and even "congregation" here. Especially since there are literally billions of people on the earth who currently identify themselves as such while at the same time clearly demonstrating that they are anything but, would it not make sense to begin by asking you to produce the SCRIPTURAL definition of a Christian, and by extension the "Christian congregation"? You see if we can actually do so, among the benefits of grasping what this entity actually is and how it is both established and destroyed is that much of the "confusion" you speak of here would be alleviated by this alone. For one thing you would not have cited even most of the scriptures that you did in this case. This is because they were written IN and thus FOR a setting in which this "ecclesia" or spiritual "temple" (also referred to as God's nation or kingdom) actually existed on the earth, which in turn basically means they largely have no application for us in this time period. (1 Cor 3:16, 17) In our case, should it not be exceedingly apparent that we are once again anticipating one of these foretold spiritual "births" or "comings"? (Jer 15:9) (Isa 66:7, 8)
This thread is about where we are in the stream of time and from the title I would say it's according to the book of Revelation. The Revelation of Jesus Christ. (Rev 1:1)
I am certainly glad to learn you have ascertained that Stranger. Yet another thing that would help to clear up the confusion you mentioned would be to consider this opening sentence of Revelation in the koine Greek writings or otherwise the Greek to English Interlinears. The first word of this book is simply –Apocalupsis. In other words it is simply- Revelation as opposed to "THE Revelation" which of course would tend to make people understand that there would only be one revealing or manifestation of Jesus and by extension God's kingdom. When it comes to this more direct approach to translation however, at least one or more interlinears indicate that the rendering-- "A Revelation by Jesus Christ" would also be acceptable. And with this "confusion" in mind, what would undoubtedly prove even more helpful is to take note of the fact that (in the interlinears at least) the word Christos here (Christ) in this opening sentence of Revelation is sometimes rendered simply as –anointed in English rather than Christ. This makes perfect sense actually since this is the literal definition of Christ or Christos.
The reason I point this out is that understanding this is yet ANOTHER key thing involved in actually defining scriptural terms like Christian and Christian congregation. Even simply by literal definition alone, these scriptural terms point not only to a group of anointed ones, but more specifically anointed ones who by means of another renewed and inaugurated holy marriage covenant have once again actually received a divine appointing to rule over the earth. This is confirmed by scriptures like Romans 2:28, 29 and Acts 18:24-28 where we learn that even in the case of people of GREEK descent like Apollos of Alexandria, being "AGLOW with the spirit" in a setting of TRUE Christianity is actually what constituted him as a "Jew."
Who really is the stranger here? (Jn 10:5,27)
I'm sorry Sol, but your merry go round of deaths and births of Jehovah's symbolic kingdoms is not what's at hand here. (Rev 1:3 KJV) The time of the nations or gentile times may or may not be over, we just don't know. One thing is for sure, there are several present nations that would argue that their time is only in it's infancy and far from over.
Would that be Satan running his big mouth and flexing and attempting to expand his air space? (Eph 2:2)
Is it not true Stranger that the way people make things their personal "merry go round" is by doing precisely what you just became guilty of here? namely making statements while failing to produce any genuine scriptural support for them? How exactly would the scriptures you cite here even begin to refute or contradict the ones I have long been using to prove just the opposite of what you assert here? Is it not even the very height of pride and presumption to imagine that people should embrace our claims or assertions simply because we personally would like them to? However since I have literally spent years now going over scriptures like Matthew 10:23 or prophetic dramas such as found in Joshua that illustrate or even explicitly identify these spiritual deaths and births as like "circuitry" or even "marches around" a kind of "Great city" with a "prostitute" that seems to often experience a "fall," are you not at this very moment doing something even worse? (Jos 2:1 6:3-5) (Re 14:8 17:3, 18 18:2) Are you not actually refuting God's word while at the same time setting YOURSELF up as the true point of authority? Which of these two approaches would truly position someone as the "stranger" Jesus speaks of there at John Chapter 10?
I'll talk to you Sol but you're not the teacher and neither am I. (Matt 4:23,26) Shorten your posts and be more down to Earth here where we are all at right now and You might have me believing you are thriving to be a Christian even an instructional Christian. (Heb 13:17)
Once again if we would choose to accept God's word as our point of authority over this figurative "stranger" Jesus speaks of, we would come to recognize the truth of what the scriptures explicitly reveal on this issue as well. Once again when it comes to this "confusion" you refer to here or even an alleged need on the part of ministers (like myself) to prove themselves as more understandable or "down to earth" instructors, we would do well to consider the following:
In the foretold settings immediately prior to another "coming of the kingdom" or one in which this ministry would be directed exclusively to the "lost sheep of the HOUSE (1 Cor 3:16, 17) of Israel," the scriptures actually point to just the opposite of what you advocate for here. (Mt 10:5, 6 24:45 25:40) Since this is actually a ministry directed exclusively towards the anointed "virgins" or Jesus' "brothers" and the objective of it is basically to determine who if any among them would humbly and repentantly prove "discreet" as opposed to "foolish," the approach Jehovah takes to it even in the case of the more "wise and intellectual ones" among them is precisely what is laid out for us in accounts like Matthew 11:25 and 13:10-15. Compare (Col 2:3) (Lu 19:44)
In other words just as is openly stated for us in accounts like Matthew 3:2, 3 or 4:17, if there is EVER a time to focus on being humble and repentant, a post-apostasy/pre-kingdom setting such as we once again find ourselves in would be it. This is because PARTICULARLY in these settings, scriptures like these reveal it is actually JEHOVAH who decides if ANYONE will begin to understand and appreciate what is coming out of the mouths of his prophets, REGARDLESS of how they express or explain things. (Ac 16:14)
Whether or not you understand this post it's what you get from me. It took me a little while to write up this way and I'll stand by it. Please no fake tears Sol and please don't put it on my shoulders how all the brothers and sisters here should be alarmed because of what I say. (Gal 6:5 KJV)
Among the reasons I am always relying heavily on the scriptures to do any teaching at all is because any genuine or legitimate "load" comes only from Jehovah, certainly not the extremely devastated and humiliated Sol. Based on passages like Matthew 11:30 however we can be certain that by coming to focus much more on the scriptures themselves along with a much more humble and repentant approach to what THEY have to say as opposed to …"teachings and commands of MEN as doctrine," our loads will soon seem much lighter than before. (Mt 15:9) (Lu 11:46)
With all due love and respect Stranger, if you imagine for even one moment you are refuting my points with God's word, you need to go back to the proverbial drawing board and rethink things. A much more scriptural and prayerful approach would undoubtedly be in order for starters.
Just prior to the 7th trumpet, after the scroll containing the sacred secret that the 7 thunders spoke, is opened, the angel tells him to eat the opened scroll and that it would make his belly bitter but in his mouth, it would be as sweet as honey. Adding, and "You must prophesy again with regard to peoples and nations and tongues and kings. And then the angel tells him to measure the house of God and the altar and those worshipping in it, (Rev 10:4,6,7,8,9,10).
Why does the scroll that is as sweet as honey in his mouth make his belly bitter? And why was he told 'you must prophesy again?' Let's see if we can find the answer to those questions.
A reed like a rod is given John to do the measuing of the house of God and the altar, and those worshipping in it, Rev 11:1.
In Pharaoh second dream there were Seven ears of grain coming up on one reed, fat and good And then he saw another seven ears of grain, thin and scorched by the east wind, growing up after them. And the thin ears began to swallow up the seven fat ears of grain, (Gen 41:5-7). At that time it pictured seven years of plenty being swallowed up by seven years of famine – a literal famine that swept their world at that time. But as we will see it also has a future spiritual application prior to the sounding of the 7th trumpet.
Jehovah says:"I was sought by those who did not enquire of me. I was found by those who did not seek me. I have said, 'Here I am, here I am!' to a nation that was not calling upon my name, (Isa 65:1; cf. Dan 12:2,4; Mt 3:9).
He then goes on to contrast these with those who had enquired of him and had found him, saying: "I have spread out my hands all day long to a stubborn people those who are walking in a way that is not good, after their [own] thoughts. These ones had an inflated view of themselves, saying: 'Keep close to yourself. Do not approach me, for I shall certainly convey holiness to you, (Isa 65:1,2-4,5-7).
Ones like these are still serving at the altar of God's house in the time of the end when John is given the reed and told to measure them, (Dan 12:2,10; cf. Mt 22:2-10,11,12,13). With regard to those who are cleansing and whitening themselves, Jehovah says: Look! My own servants will eat, but you yourselves will go hungry. Look! my own servants will drink, but you yourselves will go thirsty. Look! My own servants will rejoice because of the good condition of the heart, but you yourselves shall suffer shame. Look! My own servants shall cry out joyfully ... but you will make outcries because of the pain of heart and will howl because of a sheer breakdown of spirit, (Isa 65:13,14 ).
And someone like the Son of Man (cf. Rev 1:13), said concerning these well-fed ones with a good condition of their heart: And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth, which are [symbolised] by] two olive trees and the two lampstands that are standing before the Lord of the whole earth, Rev 11:3,4). Zechariah had been told: these are the two ears of grain, of the olive tree that by means of golden tubes are pouring forth from within themselves golden [liquid], (Zech 4:12).
(underline, arrows & inserted text mine)
See RH column, here for verses where shibboleth, ears of grain occurs in the OT.
And Jehovah says with regard to the stubborn people those who are walking in a way that is not good, (Isa 65:15) … And you will have set/placed your name for a curse and will have slain my chosen. Even as they had in Paul's case, (Acts 9:15,16; 23:12), and they are determined to do the same to those comprising the body of the two witnesses, (Rev 11:1,3,7,10). And Jehovah God will call his servants by another name. This is how I render Isa 65:15. To see how other Bibles have rendered this verse, see Isa 65:15, here.
And that is why the angel who had told John to eat the opened scroll had forewarned him that, although initially as sweet as honey in his mouth, it would make his belly bitter, (Rev 10:9). When Jesus first causes his 2 witnesses to prophesy, they are full of joy and vigour, but then as the on-the-ground reality sinks in, it makes their belly bitter.
This is what they are constrained to do:
If anyone wants to harm them fire issues forth from their mouths and devours their enemies, (Rev 11: 5). Compare: I come to start a fire on the earth and what more is there for me to wish it had already been lighted, (Lu 12: 49; Mt 10:34)
They have the authority to shut the heavens so that no rain should fall during the days of their witnessing, (Rev 11:6). Compare: Look! My own servants will eat, but you yourselves will go hungry. Look! My own servants will drink but you yourselves will go thirsty, (Isa 65:14)
And they have authority over the waters,to turn them into blood, and to strike the earth with every sort of plague as often as they wish. So the life-giving water Jesus gives that bubbles up to impart everlasting life, now becomes death-dealing to those serving at the altar who do not heed his word, (Jhn 12:47,48,49,50; Rev 12:17)
And Isa 65:15 b says regarding Jehovah's chosen ones, his servants who conquer that he will call them by another name. Compare: To the one that conquers, I will make him a pillar in the house [of God] … and I will write upon him … that new name of mine, (Rev 2:12,17; 3:12)
Just as the cluster of grapes for the new wine is dedicated to Jehovah and is put into new wineskins, Jehovah will do for his servants (Isa 65:8; Mt 9:17). For I am creating a new heavens and a new earth, and the former things shall not be called to mind, neither shall they come up into the heart, (Isa 65:17; cf. Rev 21:1).
Isa 65:15 b says regarding Jehovah's chosen ones, his servants that he will call them by another name. And Jesus had said: To the one that conquers, I will make him a pillar in the house [of God] … and I will write upon him … that new name of mine, (Rev3:12)
This has not happened yet. And what is it that must be conquered?
Rev 1:3 says Happy is the one who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy and observe the things written in it for the appointed time is near. The first step to doing this is decoding what it says in Revelation and matching it to the on-the-ground reality.
At Dan 12:2 it says: It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and a half. And as soon as there will have been a dashing of the power of the holy/set apart people to pieces all these things will have come to their finish., (Dan 12:7). Note, it is the power of these set-apart ones that is dashed to pieces, not they themselves. Their power to speak and be heard has been under attack for some time ...And the serpent disgorges water like a river from its mouth after the woman, so that she might be carried away by the river., (Rev 12:15).
Although their power to speak and be heard is being drowned out by the cacophony of discordant voices flooding the media with misinformation and disinformation. Google: Misinformation is incorrect or misleading information. It is differentiated from disinformation, which is deliberately deceptive. Rumours are information not attributed to any particular source, and so are unreliable and often unverified, but can turn out to be either true or false, (Rev 12:15). And so one must dive a little deeper to understand what is going on.
Here is the image of the geopolitical world in connection with Dan 11:40,44,45 that I posted a month ago in post 113, here. . As can be seen, the American-dominated western block consists of well-developed economies, whereas the Russia-China multipolar block includes many emerging economies. So why does the Western block see them as such a threat?
Michael Hudson in the article: American Diplomacy as a Tragic Drama gives us a clue. What is euphemized as U.S.-style democracy is a financial oligarchy privatizing basic infrastructure, health and education. The alternative is what President Biden calls autocracy, a hostile label for governments strong enough to block a global rent-seeking oligarchy from taking control. China is deemed autocratic for providing basic needs at subsidized prices instead of charging whatever the market can bear ...The U.S. drive to retain its unipolar power to impose “America First” financial, trade and military policies on the world involves an inherent hostility toward all countries seeking to follow their own national interests. Having less and less to offer in the form of mutual economic gains, U.S. policy makes threats of sanctions and covert meddling in foreign politics (underline mine). That is the essential difference between the Western US-Israel-led block and the Russian-Chinese-led block of the new G8 group. And that is why they see it as a threat that must be eliminated.
But what, if anything, does all that have to do with the 8th beast of Revelation 17:11, 12,13,15,16, 17,18?
This is the 21st-century version of the harlot in a nutshell, (Rev 17:15, 16,18;18:9,10 ). The split between the US-Israeli-led block from the Russian-China-led block may, or may not have been taken into account, but we can be sure that the harlot, the Bilderberg/WEF - the Great Reset cabal will do something about it. She has no choice but to accommodate at least some of their demands.
We can be fairly certain that this is bound to happen because it says that the 10 horns of this 8th beast the harlot rides have one thought, or are of the same mind. And so they give their power and authority over to the beast in order to rule with it for one hour. They hate the harlot and their one thought is to destroy the harlot … For God put it into their hearts to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the beast until the words of God will have been accomplished, Rev 17:13,16,17)
coccus ilicis wrote: ↑9 months ago
As of the 18th of Aug. 2022
Thank you so much for the Big Log you keep Coccus.
My love is exceeding the limit
Red eyed and fevered with the hum of the miles
Distance and longing, my thoughts do collide
Should I rest for a while at thy side?
Although their power to speak and be heard is being drowned out by the cacophony of discordant voices flooding the media with misinformation and disinformation ... (Rev 12:15). And so one must dive a little deeper to understand what is going on
However, there is something to be said for listening to misinformation or disinformation as a discerning listener can hear exactly that which the disinformation producers do not want you to hear. For instance, whenever the phrase 'unprovoked invasion of Ukraine' occurs, one asks why is it necessary to prefix the invasion with unprovoked. Do they say this to cover their own deed? It is similar to when a child that pokes a dog with a stick, says: 'I didn't do anything it just attacked me.' The reciprocal effect of Mt 7:2,4,5, measure for measure is always at work,
Every day now one finds mainstream news channels covering anti-globalist material that had formerly been relegated to the lunatic conspiracy fringe, even as demonstrated in the video in post 147 above. But keep in mind that the Indian, Al Jazeera channel, is a commercial channel, so not all that they say is politically neutral. Human interpretation of events cannot but help reflect the perspective of the observer, for journalists, the next layer of censorship is the publisher.
It is clear to those who view world events from a biblical perspective, that we are living in the time of the end. And when we read prophecies such as those at Isa 14:4,5,6,13,14;26:20,21 we nod our heads in agreement saying that's happening now. And at Isa 28:14, 20, where it says: Therefore hear the words of Jehovah you braggarts, you rulers who are in Jerusalem: Because you men have said: "We have concluded a vision with death; with Sheol, we have effected a vision; the overflowing flash flood, in case it passes through, will not come to us, for we have made a lie our refuge and in falsehood, we have concealed ourselves ... For the couch has proved too short for stretching oneself out on, and the woven sheet too narrow when wrapping oneself up. That is the position in which the Bilderberg/WEF - the Great Reset cabal finds itself, the covering of its woven work that envelopes the world proves to be inadequate.
But when it says: For Jehovah will rise up as at Mount Perazim, he will be agitated, [as at Ps 77:18], just as in the low plain in Gibeon. That he may do his deed - his deed is strange - and that he may work his work - his work is unusual/foreign/alien, (Isa 28:21). What is this all about? And what does this strange work that is similar to what happened at Mount Perazim, in the low plain near Gibeon, refer to?
The Gibeonites were the ones that had used false pretences to get Joshua to promise not to destroy them along with the rest of the Canaanites. Later, when the other Canaanite kings attacked the Gibeonites, Joshua had come to their rescue and Jehovah had supported him by raining meteorites down on the Canaanites and by making the sun stand still over Gibeon and the moon over the low plain of Aijalon ... accordingly, the sun kept motionless and the moon did stand still until the nation could take vengeance on its enemies, (Jos 10:1,2,3,6, 11,12). That was indeed 'a strange work,'
But what application does it have in our day?
In 1950, a Russian Jewish scientist, Immanuel Velikovsky, published 'Worlds in Collision' which dealt with what occurred at that time when the sun stood still, and other OT events such as the flood, the waters of the Nile being banked up allowing the Israelites to cross over, etc. from a scientific perspective. It was well received and became a best-seller. But since his cosmology completely overturned all that the scientific community of that time accepted as true, they reacted so strongly that his publishers turned their copyright over to another publisher. Undeterred Velikovsky also published, 'Ages in Chaos' and 'Mankind in Amnesia.' These three tell the story of creation and the story of man. Even though cutting-edge technology and research continue to prove his predictions correct, their opposition to him continues to this day. But as more and more evidence confirming his predictions came to light, the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation interviewed Velikovsky in 1972 and produced this documentary. Immanuel Velikovsky - Bonds of the Past - CBC,
At the end of the video around 52:28, he is asked 'When can we expect the next catastrophe?'. Listen to his answer. He does not refer to the NT and what Jesus said about the great tribulation at Mt 24: 21,22. but his answer indicates that he believes the next catastrophe comes at man's hand.
Who would have thought that Jehovah would use cutting-edge technology and up-to-date research to confirm his word? From our standpoint that may be strange work indeed, but only in as much as our traditions and belief has distorted our concept of God and man. No wonder Jesus warned us that at the time of his return the sun would be darkened and the moon would not give its light and the stars would fall from heaven as the powers of heaven are shaken. And the tribes of the earth would beat themselves in lamentation. Why does it say tribes of the earth, is it differentiating between these and heavenly tribes, who know exactly what is happening and why?
These are the glad tidings which the angel of Rev 14:6,7 that flies in mid-heaven declares. That those who dwell on the earth, regardless of tribe ethnicity, nationality, religious belief or non-belief should now fear God and give him glory, because the hour of judgment by him has arrived. Now, is the time to acknowledge and submit to the one who made the heavens and the earth and sea and fountains of waters,
Science versus religious belief
Scientism and religion are built using the same building blocks
Reality changes everything
Google: The main difference between science and scientism is that science is the study of nature and behaviour of natural things and knowledge obtained through them, while scientism is the view that only science can render truth about the world and reality. Religion and scientism: a shared cognitive conundrum ... the metaphysical view that science offers an exhaustive account of the real. For those committed to scientism, religious discourse is epistemically illegitimate, because it refers to matters that transcend—and so cannot be verified by—scientific inquiry
... arguments from the phenomenological tradition that seem to undercut this critique, viz., arguments that scientism itself cannot be justified without recourse to matters that transcend scientific inquiry. If this is true, then scientism and religion share a cognitive conundrum: a commitment to truths that cannot in principle be known from our current perspective,
When the storm comes, and the rain pours and floods come, and winds howl, these three houses of thought will collapse, (Mt 7:26,27).
In his book, Worlds in Collision, Velikovsky challenged scientism's belief that there is no God, (see video post 149 above), a concept that was first proposed by Anaximander of Miletus, a Greek philosopher who lived in the 500s BCE ... Noting that human babies are born helpless, Anaximander speculated that humans must have descended from some other type of creature whose young could survive without any help. He concluded that those ancestors must be fish, since fish hatch from eggs and immediately begin living with no help from their parents, Theory of Evolution. In effect saying there is no creator God.
Dan 8:9-12;11:29-39 describes the progress and outcome of Anaximander's notion that 'there is no God.' Daniel is told: "Understand, O son of man, that the vision is for the time of the end ... Here I am causing you to know what will occur in the final part of the denunciation because it is for the appointed time of the end, (Dan 8:17,19).
The little horn of Dan 8:9-12 served to remove the constant feature and replace it with the disgusting thing of Dan11:31, namely Anaximander's proposal that 'there is no God.' These are the ambiguous sayings that Ptolemy II (Dan 8:23) understood, and introduced to the intelligentsia at the library in Alexandria, circa 283 BC ...Although we refer to this learning center as the Library of Alexandria, it was more than just a library. Students came from all over the Mediterranean world to learn. It cultivated several of the ancient world's most renowned scholars,Famous People Who Worked at the Ancient Library of Alexandria
...The idea of progress, particularly the belief in unbounded human progress, was central to the Enlightenment of the 18th centuryhttps://www.britannica.com/science/evol ... arly ideas. This video at that link is worth watching as it demonstrates the problem that the belief that ' there is no God,' presents to the scientific mind.
The belief that there is no creator God, is also the plank on which the Bilderberg/WEF - the 'Great Reset partnership stands, (see post 147 above). This belief is absolutely necessary to justify its actions that it purports are necessary for humanity's survival. Please listen closely to what the WEF's top advisor says here, Professor Yuval Noah Harari, Klaus Schwab’s Top Advisor?
His video, 'Hacking Humans,' has been withdrawn on youtube, but soundbites from the video can be found at this site: https://rumble.com/embed/vu8jix/?pub=4. I suggest watching it before it also gets removed.
What he says concerning the WEFs domination cannot be denied, the entire world is indeed under the spell of this 8th beast's rule. The majority willingly abide by its dictates, i.e. wearing masks, getting their covid shots, installing solar panels, lowering carbon emissions etc, not because they are compelled to, but because they think it's the right thing to do -
God is left out of the picture altogether.
Dan 8:24,25 says concerning this last king, that his power must become mighty ... And in a wonderful way he will cause ruin, and he will certainly prove successful and do effectively. And he shall corrupt ,[as at Gen 6:11], mighty ones and the holy people. And according to his insight, he will certainly cause deception to succeed in his hand. And in his heart he will put on great airs, and during 'freedom from care he will corrupt many. And against the Prince of princes, he will stand up, [cf. Rev 11:3,7,8; 17:14], but it will be without a hand that he is broken.
Daniel asks how long this transgression against God that would make the holy place and its army things to trample on would last, (Dan 8:9-13). And he is told: “Until two thousand three hundred evenings and mornings in order to cleanse the sanctuary", (Dan 8:14,26, cf.Dan 11:33-35). Note, it says evenings and mornings, not mornings and evenings. So it is not 2300 days, which is inserted in the LXX, but refers to Passovers that are celebrated once a year between sunset and dawn, see Ex 12:6,7.
In Dan 11:31,34,35 it tells us when and how this transgressing causing desolation of the sanctuary/holy place, takes place. And there will be arms that will stand up, proceeding from him, [Ptolemy II], and they will actually profane the sanctuary and remove the constant [feature, [belief in God]. And they will put in place the disgusting thing causing desolation, (Dan 11:31). The disgusting thing is the belief that there is no creator God. The exact date when the constant feature was given over is unknown, but it would have been around 283 BCE or later. Adding 2300 Passover years to 283 BCE one arrives at the time the sanctuary is cleansed, around 2018. It corresponds to the time when John is told to measure the sanctuary and those worshipping at the altar. And it is the time when Jesus causes his two witnesses to prophesy for 1260 days. (Rev 11:1,3; Dan 8:14,26;11:35).
In a nutshell then, the disgusting thing that causes desolation of Dan 8:13; 9:27; 11:31 is the teaching that there is no God who created all things. And since Jesus tells us, Whenever, therefore, you should see the disgusting thing of the desolation having been spoken of by Daniel the prophet standing in the holy place [standing where it ought not, Mk 13:14], let the reader use discernment, [this is an imperative command]. Then let those in Judea flee to the mountains, [flee, is also an imperative command], (Mt 24:15). There is nothing wishy-washy here, but Jesus is driving home the perilous urgency of this time. The words, (Mt 14:15), 'Therefore whenever you should see the disgusting thing', indicates that only when one recognizes what the disgusting thing really is would one know that the great tribulation is about to start. This disgusting thing has now been clearly identified, and the great tribulation such as has not occurred since the world's beginning until now, is about to begin, (Mt24:17-22).
Whether this occurs before the 10 horns/kings that destroy the harlot give their authority to the beast she rides in order to receive authority as kings for one hour, or after, is unclear at present, (Rev 17:12,13,14,). At this stage, it appears that the great tribulation happens first. And since it is the Son of man who cuts it short, it also signals the beginning of his presence, (Mt 24:22, 23-26,27,29).
. As can be seen, the American-dominated western block consists of well-developed economies, whereas the Russia-China multipolar block includes many emerging economies. So why does the Western block see them as such a threat? 