BTG is Rome! (Preterist View)

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johnamos2.0
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Re: BTG is Rome! (Preterist View)

#51 Post by johnamos2.0 » 9 months ago

7th head 476 CE - present
7th head 1919 CE - present


It does not matter whom or when the 7th head is or begun ruling, only if we understand/agree that it is presently the ruling head at this time.

Speaking of those precise times are a waste of time and serves no purpose when you realize that you actually are on the same page. My wife's side of the family are complete brainwashed WTS/GB followers. As we all know that they believe Jesus became king in 1914. This is my reasoning with them. I believe he became king in 33c.e., this means that I believe he was king in 1914. And being that we ALL were born AFTER 1914 that means that since we were born no matter what year, 1944, 1979, 1981, 1975, 1970, 1965, 1968, etc... Jesus was/is king since we were all born and we are ALL praying for God's kingdom to come still, so why in the hell should we argue about it if we are ALL on the same page in those regards.

It (7th head) also has not received its death-stroke yet and the UN is not the 8th king at this point. When the UN becomes the 8th king, it will only have 42 months as such.

Sevenz
Posts: 50
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Location: Texas

Re: BTG is Rome! (Preterist View)

#52 Post by Sevenz » 4 months ago

Hello again Kerry,

I apologize for not returning sooner.

Previously, in your comments you made these two statements:
1. If we believe that the 7th head came to power in 476 CE – as per Sevenz interpretation – then this little while becomes 1500+ years – by far the longest little while on record...

2. I would not consider 1500 years+ as a short time.
Let’s take another look at Revelation 17 verses 10 and 12.

This is what the two verses say according to the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures (Study Edition):
10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast.
Notice that the account describes the duration of the 7th king as being “a short while” and as being “one hour”. Thus, a short while = one hour.

In the chart you posted, it showed that the “Anglo-American” power has now been ruling for “102 YEARS”.

And underneath that chart you said the following:
This is why I cannot accept Sevenz’ interpretation that the 7th head had arrived and has been controlling since 476 CE – it just does not make sense.
I do indeed subscribe to the thought that the 7th head is the Anglo-American power.
You say the 7th king/head is the “Anglo-American” power that has now ruled for “102 YEARS,” yet the scripture says the 7th king/head is to rule for “one hour”. Would you please explain how that makes any sense?

As I said earlier, “I think the idea is that the rule of the 7th king would not be permanent.”
In other words, God is allowing the 7th king to have its shot at ruling the world just as He allowed the previous 6 kings to have their shot. The terms “short while” and “one hour” simply express the idea that the rule of the 7th king is only temporary, the same as the other 6 kings proved to be temporary.

Sevenz

Kerry Huish
Posts: 484
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: BTG is Rome! (Preterist View)

#53 Post by Kerry Huish » 4 months ago

Sevenz wrote: 4 months ago You say the 7th king/head is the “Anglo-American” power that has now ruled for “102 YEARS,” yet the scripture says the 7th king/head is to rule for “one hour”. Would you please explain how that makes any sense?
The scriptures do not say that the 7th head rules for one hour, it says a short while.
The 7th head and the 10 kings are separate entities.

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

Sevenz
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Location: Texas

Re: BTG is Rome! (Preterist View)

#54 Post by Sevenz » 4 months ago

Hi again Kerry,

I'm trying my best to understand you, so I need to ask you a basic question or two that I think might help, if you don't mind.

Revelation 13 speaks of a wild beast that has 7 heads and 10 horns, with each horn sporting a diadem. I would like to know what your perception is specifically with regards to the way you think the horns are situated. Do you visualize the horns as being distributed amongst all 7 heads of the beast? Or do you see all 10 of them rooted in only ONE of the beast's heads? If indeed you see all 10 horns perched atop ONE of the beast's heads, then which head would you say that it is?

Thank you for cooperating, and I promise you that I am not joking. I am dead serious at trying to understand what John was privileged to see, in both the 13th and 17th chapters of Revelation.

Sevenz

.

Kerry Huish
Posts: 484
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: BTG is Rome! (Preterist View)

#55 Post by Kerry Huish » 4 months ago

Sevenz wrote: 4 months ago
Revelation 13 speaks of a wild beast that has 7 heads and 10 horns, with each horn sporting a diadem. I would like to know what your perception is specifically with regards to the way you think the horns are situated. Do you visualize the horns as being distributed amongst all 7 heads of the beast? Or do you see all 10 of them rooted in only ONE of the beast's heads? If indeed you see all 10 horns perched atop ONE of the beast's heads, then which head would you say that it is?
The biblical account does not stipulate the exact arrangement of the horns other than that the beast itself had 7 heads and 10 horns.
I would take this as an indication that the exact layout of the horns it not important.
So to propose this or that and further read into such a proposal would be to stray from the Word of God.

The beast in Revelation 13 and the beast in Revelation 17 are not one and the same, one has crowns and diadems the other does not, one of them is but a created image of the other.

Revelation 13:14...It ordered them to set up an image in honor of the beast who was wounded by the sword and yet lived.

My thoughts on this image and the events surrounding its creation are contained within this very thread.
Kerry Huish wrote: 9 months ago
(Revelation 13:14) And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived.

After the War ended, Britain and America fabricated a new entity, the League of Nations. Its primary goals, as stated in its Covenant, included preventing wars through collective security and disarmament and settling international disputes through negotiation and arbitration.

The American President, Woodrow Wilson, put forth great efforts to establish and promote the League of Nations, for which he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in October 1919.

However, the United States never joined. Senate Republicans led by Henry Cabot Lodge wanted a League with the reservation that only Congress could take the U.S. into war. Lodge gained a majority of Senators. Wilson refused to allow a compromise and the needed 2/3 majority was lacking.
Did this League of Nations prevent wars and prove to be a place where international disputes were solved through negotiation?
Well, not many years later WW2 erupted, the League of Nations had failed.

Note what is said next: -

(Revelation 13:15) And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast.

After WW2, Britain and American again emerged as victors. The same idea of the League of Nations was proposed, but this time the United States would join and support it, in effect giving breath or life to the idea, it was reborn as the United Nations.

This setup is further alluded to in Revelation 17: -

(Revelation 17:11) And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.

The United Nations today uses sanctions to restrict the buying or selling of any nation that does not play ball and accept its leadership and authority.
This tactic of the United Nations was also clearly foretold in the following verses: -

(Revelation 13:16, 17)  And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name.

Finally in Revelation 13 we are reminded that this is an expression of ‘imperfect human’ rulership.
It is not God's promised Kingdom nor is its rulership authorized by Him.
It is a counterfeit attempt of misleading people into trusting, not in Jehovah and His promises, but in ourselves.
Kind regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

Kerry Huish
Posts: 484
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: BTG is Rome! (Preterist View)

#56 Post by Kerry Huish » 4 months ago

.
In relation to the 1 hour that the 10 kings receive authority with the wild beast.

Revelation 17:12 “The ten horns you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but who for one hour will receive authority as kings along with the beast.

This is what I believe that this is symbolic of.
The United Nations Security Counsel is made up of 15 members.
5 of these members are permanent, China, France, Russia, Britain & United States.
The other 10 are non permanent members and only sit, or receive power for a very short 2 year term, a symbolic hour.
Each year 5 of these non permanent members are replaced, perpetually.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Na ... ty_Council
NPM.png
NPM.png (84 KiB) Viewed 556 times

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

Dajo1
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Re: BTG is Rome! (Preterist View)

#57 Post by Dajo1 » 4 months ago

Thank you FriendlyDoggo for starting the topic.

Very thought provoking last few comments, Sevens and Kerry.
Noteworthy analysis Kerry regarding the 10 and how it plays out with the setup of governance in todays world.
I felt that we were yet to see a fuller manifestation of being “..put under compulsion..”. Maybe it is actually being
Fulfilled in plain sight now.

I do though, draw some encouragement from your take on it. The whole thing IS about sovereignty.

It is all about perspective. We can only be settled and at peace if we understand our position!
We seem to be in the position of observers. Sometimes that is a desirable place to be, the battle is not ours.

Dajo1
Posts: 365
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: BTG is Rome! (Preterist View)

#58 Post by Dajo1 » 4 months ago

…. . Because oftentimes when we are “involved” in a situation we lose the ability to step back, observe, take note of and act in a rational wise, calm way.
The ruling ones cannot do that. They are blinded by the very situation they created.

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coccus ilicis
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Re: BTG is Rome! (Preterist View)

#59 Post by coccus ilicis » 4 months ago

apollos0fAlexandria wrote: 10 months ago Kerry & FriendlyDoggo

With due respect Kerry, it does seem that FD's points are quite solid.

When you wrote "so are you saying ... Rome turns on itself?" - thus leading to a contradiction in your view - you've evidently stuck with the JW interpretation of Great Britain fulfilling a particular role. I would say that point is far from proven, and it would be best to review any questionable premises before building on them.

I'll admit that the 3 kings part involving Holland, France and Spain does seem to work well in that model, but I'm not sure all the rest of it does. Therefore we might keep an open mind as to the application until it's completely interpreted both by scripture and history.

For examples of alternative interpretations (and I'm not saying I believe any of these in particular):
before whom, there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots; before whom three kings or kingdoms fell, and were subdued as in Daniel 7:20 which, according to Mr. Mede, were the kingdoms of the Greeks, of the Longobards, and of the Franks; but, according to Sir Isaac Newton, they were the exarchate of Ravenna, the kingdom of the Lombards, and the senate and dukedom of Rome; or, according to the present bishop of Clogher, the Campagnia of Rome, the exarchate of Ravenna, and the region of Pentapolis, which were plucked up by Pipin and Charlemagne, kings of France, and given to the pope; and were confirmed to him by their successor Lewis the pious, and is what is called the patrimony of St. Peter; in memory of which a piece of Mosaic work was made and put up in the pope's palace, representing St. Peter with three keys in his lap; signifying the three keys of the three parts of his patrimony; and to show his sovereignty over them, the pope to this day wears a triple crown: https://www.studylight.org/bible/eng/n84/daniel/7-8.html
It's tricky, because really everything has to fit to be true. Finding instances of 3 kings being humiliated might be the easy part. The more difficult thing is to see which one causes no disjoint with the rest of the passage.

Best,
Apollos
Hi Apollos

I agree it is tricky because the only sure pivotal date/time we have is the time of the end/the final days. 'Time of the end' or words to that effect occur several times in Daniel and throughout the OT and it is associated with the return of the Son of Man. There have been numerous periods to which it has been applied in the past, the preterist being one of them. But we are still waiting for the Son of Man to return, (Mt 24:29,30).

I am pretty sure we are now in that time, but I could be wrong even like all those others. But one has to be ready and prepared to open the door when he comes ...because at an hour that you do not think it to be [the 'you' referring to the slave of Mt 24:50] the Son of Man is coming ... Who really is the faithful and discreet slave whom the master appoints , [aorist], over the domestics slave to give them their food in the appointed time, [as at Mt 8:29]. Happy is that slave that his master on coming, [aorist participle of erchomai, come], will find him so doing, [future]. The so doing refers to both being on watch and giving food at the appointed time.

It is therefore no wonder that the present end-time scenario has been preceded by many others. But that should not deter one. That one is premature and opens the door too soon is not a big deal from God's standpoint, but the inability to admit one is wrong is. It says concerning the wicked slave: If ever that wicked slave should say in his heart, [not publicly but in his heart], my master is delaying and should start to beat his fellow slaves and eat and drink with confirmed drunkards, the master of that slave will come at an hour he does not expect and beat him with the greatest severity , (Mt 24:49).

Taking that on board one must consider that the present time is that hour, but at the same time be prepared to admit that one is wrong if it turns out not to be that hour; remember Jonah. That hour is a period of sorting out, a difficult time, and it is why at Dan 12:12 it says: Happy is the one who is keeping in expectation and who arrives at one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days. If it were a cut and dried deal, all and sundry would be queueing up at the door waiting to get in, but Dan 12:12 indicates the opposite to be the case.
LRW~

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