The Open Letter to e-Watchman follower(s)

[Get out of her]

Very good to hear from you again Paj:

As I'm sure you already know none of this ultimately has anything to do with how someone "feels" but rather what can and cannot be established scripturally. But basically yes I get the general impression that you are beginning to understanding what I am trying to convey here.

I will continue to demonstrate scripturally things like the fact that at ANY point in time in which people are anticipating or even praying for a "coming" of the "messiah" and its subsequent/commensurate "coming of the kingdom" as we ourselves once again indeed ARE, among what would now be MANY things they at this point would have been heavily programmed by the "antichrist/man of lawlessness/Great Harlot" etc. to NOT understand is that they are actually/basically praying for the return of TRUE Christianity. This would be the case even if its final foretold manifestation would prove vastly more intense than all the previous expressions of genuine theocratic power and authority on the earth.

Even aside from a closer consideration of the scriptures themselves, simply examining the definitions found in a Bible word dictionary will quickly reveal things like the fact that to utter the expression- "true Christianity" would actually be the same as saying—genuine theocratic ANOINTING. What we need to bear in mind here however is that to understand it in this way would require things like learning to disregard the definition that the antichrist always assigns to such terms when it is allowed to overthrow Jehovah's "sanctuary" or "temple" with another "apostasy" of its appointed shepherds. (Da 11:30-32) (Mt 24:15, 16) (2 Th 2:1-8) (1 Cor 3:16, 17) On the other hand when we are encountering scriptural terms such as "disgusting thing that causes desolation" or "antichrist," we are actually considering the "disgusting" counterfeit anointing that the demons are all too happy to endow these same shepherds with the moment they (as the prophet Daniel puts it) "leave the holy covenant." The word "antichrist" LITERALLY MEANS substitute or replacement anointing, and it is precisely what the prophet Daniel as well as Jesus is referring to in connection with what is "put in place" of the Christ or "continual sacrifice" by an "apostasy" there in Daniel 11:31. Compare (Mt 24:15, 16) (Strong's #473 #5547)

In other words when the Apostle John is openly announcing the arrival of the antichrist at the end of the first century he is actually announcing the fifth of the "seven" foretold deaths or "plantings" (as opposed to "harvests" or rebirths) of Jehovah's nation that would occur in the span of time identified with terms such as the "appointed times of the nations" or "seven times." (1 Joh 2:18) (Lu 21:24) (Da 4:23, 32) (1 Th 5:3) (Re 11:2) He is announcing precisely what ones like the Apostle Paul had been warning the Christian congregation about several decades earlier. (2 Th 2:1-8)

Just as had already been demonstrated for us SEVERAL times even PRIOR to the theocratic birth that occurred in 33 CE such as with the granting of genuine theocratic power and authority to ones like the Prophet Daniel and his Hebrew companions in ancient Babylon right alongside Jehovah's "servant" Nebuchadrezzar, Jehovah's TRUE nation would ALWAYS be manifested not only as an actual nation, but even as a WORLD POWER. (Jer 25:9) This is a world power that at least until the moment it would "lead into apostasy" Jehovah's appointed shepherds would basically HAVE a true religion as opposed to BEING one. This is the case even if would only be a matter of a few decades or even a few years before it would "leave the holy covenant." (Da 11:30-32) We very much need to understand not only that these "seven" foretold world powers would spend even the VAST MAJORITY of their existence in a "FALLEN" spiritual condition, but that true worship basically goes out of existence ALTOGETHER when one of these foretold "apostasies" would occur. (Re 18:2) This is exactly the REASON that Paul was always so determined to "act as a restraint" against what he knew all too well was another encroaching "apostasy" and its accompanying "god" that would "sit down in the temple of THE GOD..." (2 Th 2:1-8) Compare (1 Cor 3:16, 17)

What a very elderly Apostle John is prophesying about in Revelation 11 is actually the "sixth" foretold EARTHLY manifestation of true worship ("God's kingdom" or "nation") that would arrive with the rise of Great Britain, and not as a NATION, but rather as a world power. (Re 9:13 11:3, 7, 11, 12) This sixth "king" began to manifest itself as such at the very end of the 1600s, and we can be certain it is no coincidence that this is precisely the time frame that is pointed to with the "2,300 mornings and evenings" prophecy of Daniel 8:13, 14. (Re 17:10) This is assuming we are paying attention to the starting point of this foretold time frame of "exile" or "captivity" that ones like Jeremiah explicitly identified as beginning with the reign of ancient king "Jehoiakim." (Jer 1:3) Nevertheless if the first century was any indication and we can be certain it WAS, it was only a matter of a few decades until this "sixth king" would "lead" Jehovah's appointed shepherds into "apostasy" or otherwise "act wickedly against the holy covenant." (Ro 15:4) (Da 11:30-32)

What we are considering in the symbolic spiritual language of Revelation Chapter 12 with the "SEVENTH trumpet" is the VERY BRIEF spiritual birth of true worship or Christianity that would have manifested itself along with the rise of the Anglo American world power. (Re 11:15 12:2, 5) This is the one that all along had been foretold to exist for only a "short time" before its spiritual adultery would give birth to a figurative "daughter of Jehovah's people" which in this case is also described as a kind of "image of the wild beast" as well as an "eighth king." This proved to be the "League of Nations" which we now know as the U.N. (Jer 8:11) (Re 13:14, 15 17:11) What we have just considered here however is very much a "death stroke" experienced by this "seventh king" or "seventh head" of the "wild beast" that essentially "gets healed" in the FORM of the U.N. (Re 13:3) Nevertheless while it qualifies as a kind of "eighth KING," it would NOT qualify as an eighth "HEAD" since the foretold "appointed times of the NATIONS" would have been COMPLETED by the time of this final foretold "daughter of Jehovah's people" which prophets like Isaiah and Ezekiel had ALL ALONG described also as much like a "great" spiritual "PROSTITUTE." (Isa 1:21) (Eze 23:1-4)

In other words in stark contrast with the previous "seven," this final "eight king" would NEVER exist in a covenant relationship with Jehovah. The "gentile times" or "times" in which a HUMAN world power would manifest itself along with TRUE worship of Jehovah would have come to its completion at this point. This is simply another way of saying that WITH the spiritual "fall" of the "SEVENTH king" of this foretold march of world powers, divine AUTHORITY for rulership on the earth would no longer INCLUDE humans. THIS in turn is simply another way of saying that the DEMONS would never again have authority over the earth since they of course would ALWAYS manifest THEIR rulership THROUGH humans. What we are now considering here is exactly what we find being foretold in accounts like Daniel 7:11, 12:

"Then I continued to watch because of the boastful words the horn was speaking. I kept looking until the beast was slain and its body destroyed and given to the blazing fire. But as for the rest of the beasts, their AUTHORITY was STRIPPED from them, but they were allowed to live for a period of time."

[The wording in this case would be a much more direct or accurate way of conveying what is actually found in the ancient Hebrew texts.]

This is the time period of the "eighth king" we are considering here in Daniel when the "appointed times of the nations" would have ALREADY come to fruition or experienced its fulfillment. But did we just now overlook the fact that all of this points to the very OPPOSITE of what we were always led to believe by the Watchtower organization? Once again these "gentile times" are all about a foretold "CIRCUIT," cycle, or even "WHEELWORK" of events that would be repeated "seven times" before the manifestation of the Millennial Reign. (Mt 10:23) (Eze 10:13) There was never to be an eighth HEAD of this "wild beast" because there would never be an eighth spiritual BIRTH involved with this foretold 2,520 year period. So just as is the case with ANY cycle, it ends in the very same manner it BEGINS! The END of the "gentile times" would be marked by the very same thing that BEGAN this cycle of "seven" foretold deaths and subsequent rebirths of God's nation on the earth! What INITIATED this foretold 2,520 years of foreign "captivity and exile" of Jehovah's people was a spiritual DEATH, not a birth or "presence" of divine power and authority. It is for this very REASON in fact that the very MOMENT after we read of this final seventh birth of Jehovah's nation on the earth in Revelation 12 we find ourselves considering YET ANOTHER "fleeing" or "flight to the wilderness" on the part of the anointed ones in order to not only be "fed" spiritually, but even to be "AWAY FROM THE FACE OF THE SERPENT" or otherwise what ALWAYS occupies Jehovah's "temple" or "holy place" the moment a "holy covenant" is violated with spiritual adultery! (Re 12:2, 5, 14) (Da 11:30-32) (Mt 24:15, 16) (1 Cor 3:16, 17)

Basically the point here brother Paj is this:

Regardless of whether we are considering spiritual Israel or the fleshly manifestation that prophetically pictured and symbolically illustrated it, God's kingdom or nation which in OUR time frame can also be referred to as TRUE Christianity "COMES" to the earth initially with the arrival of two prophets or "witnesses" whose purpose is to perform EXACTLY what is foretold for us in accounts like Revelation Chapter 11 or Matthew 24 and 25. (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12) (Mt 24:45 25:1, 2:5, 10, 35-40) This is namely to "inspect" and spiritually "feed" what are always at this point spiritually "sleeping" "widows" and "virgins" of a BROKEN holy marriage covenant with the intent of RENEWING this covenant with the "few" among them who begin to demonstrate themselves as "discreet" rather than "foolish." (Lu 19:44 22:28, 29) (Mt 22:14) The "marriage feast" spoken of here is simply a symbolic representation of this renewed covenant. (Mt 25:10) The "marriage GARMENT" on the other hand is a symbolic reference to the "clothing" spoken of in accounts like Matthew 25:36 or Hebrews 9:16-18. (Mt 22:11, 12)

We very much need to understand that a broken kingdom covenant makes even the ANOINTED ones spiritually "SICK" foreigners or "STRANGERS," certainly NOT spiritual Jews or Christians. (Mt 25:35) In turn spiritually "leprous" FOREIGN figurative "Syrian army chiefs" ALWAYS require the spiritual "clothing" or "garment" that comes with the blood atonement commensurate with a renewed "law" or "kingdom covenant." (2 Ki 5:1, 10, 14) This means we are no longer the figurative "man of lawLESSness." Just as accounts like Revelation 11 make perfectly clear, this ministry in behalf the anointed "virgins" and "widows" ALWAYS culminates with the "clothing" or covering atonement that results from the "killing" and subsequent call from heaven to "come up here" on the part of two prophets or "witnesses" immediately after they renew the holy covenant with "discreet virgins." (Lu 22:28, 29) (Mt 25:34-40) (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12)

We very much need to appreciate that NO nation or religion on the earth will teach ANYONE the truth of Jehovah's word in ANY setting in which we would be eagerly anticipating another arrival of God's kingdom. This setting is CREATED by an "apostasy" on the part the ONE TRUE theocratic nation. Such being the case, what would that imply in connection with all the nations or religions that were NEVER in a covenant relationship with Jehovah? The earth has EXPERIENCED manifestations of true Christianity such as the one that existed between the years of 33 and 96 or so CE. Do you currently see ANYTHING on the earth that even REMOTELY resembles the ministry that was performed by the first century Apostles while working in tandem for a few decades with the world power spoken of in accounts like Philippians 2:21-23?

What occurred to me the moment I read your latest reply to me brother Paj is that I would strongly encourage you to prayerfully consider threads I have authored like –What is a Christian and –Are we experiencing the final foretold Great Tribulation. In the latter case I would emphasize post #5 and #29 in particular. But once again if we have not even begun to obey commands such as to "separate ourselves" from the politics AND organized religion of this demonic world and its "filthy" or "unclean" literature, we can be certain that even if we are finally EXPOSED to genuine scriptural teachings they will only remain as "carefully concealed sacred secrets" to us. (2 Cor 6:17) (Isa 28:8) (Col 2:3) (Mt 13:11) The command to "flee" specifically to the "MOUNTAINS" is actually a command to begin seeking out at least one of the "two witnesses" or prophets which in these prophetic time frames are ALWAYS in an exiled or "wilderness" type of setting. The rather unusual anointing they experience very quickly results in them completely isolating themselves from things like the churches and religious literature of the present system of things. (Mt 3:3, 4 24:15, 16) (Lu 4:22-30) (Mr 1:45)

Agape love;
Sol

[Proselytiser of Jah]

I'm not sure where you get the idea of a "broken covenant". If what you say is true, then are multiple covenants. But scripture only tells us of two covenants. The Old and the New.

The marriage of the Bride only happens to my understanding on Jesus' second coming. This marriage only happens for Christians who have remained chaste virgins before the ceremony (as opposed to the false religious prostitutes who sold themselves to falsehoods, the harlot on the beast).

Therefore, no covenant has been broken, because Christ's New Covenant is an everlasting covenant, his Kingdom in Heaven, of which people can either remain in, or betray. I see no scriptural reason to say that there are "several covenants" broken and created over time.

The way I see it, some people have been elected to be part of his bride since the beginning and that covenant has never been broken, but there have been people to betray that covenant and identify themselves as harlots. But that in itself I do not think is a "breaking of the covenant", requiring some sort of "new, new, new covenant" time and time over.

Praying for God's Kingdom in my view is praying for Christ's second coming and the renewal of this world to perfection. A thing all true Christians since the beginning have prayed for.

But once again if we have not even begun to obey commands such as to "separate ourselves" from the politics AND organized religion of this demonic world and its "filthy" or "unclean" literature, we can be certain that even if we are finally EXPOSED to genuine scriptural teachings they will only remain as "carefully concealed sacred secrets" to us

I agree with this however.

[Get out of her]

There are only two holy covenants in the sense that there WAS one for FLESHLY Israel and IS one for SPIRITUAL Israel. What we want to understand here however is that Jehovah does not destroy a world power whose king is an "anointed shepherd" of HIS and replace it with another for KEEPING his holy covenant. (Isa 44:28 45:1)

What we are considering in accounts like Daniel Chapter 7 is basically a foretold march of four "wild beasts" while at the same time a prophetic /symbolic depiction of EIGHT. Let’s not forget that fleshly Israel was a prophetic drama or "typical representation" of what would occur with SPIRITUAL Israel. (He 8:5) There are exactly FOUR depictions of broken and subsequently renewed law or kingdom covenants with FLESHLY Israel for the very reason that the same would occur with the NEW covenant connected with SPIRITUAL Israel. This is basically the reason we ultimately find ourselves being confronted with a kind of "EIGHTH king" by the time we get to the 17th Chapter of Revelation.

I can assure you brother Paj that the reason you understand things the way you do is for the very same reason that I did for most of my life. This is because we have all been heavily programmed to do so by the antichrist for our entire lives. Spiritually "sleeping" "widows" and "virgins" simply do not emerge from a holy marriage covenant that has NOT been violated with the spiritual adultery and subsequent "divorce" involved with a BROKEN one. (Mt 25:1, 2, 5, 10) (La 1:1, 4) (Jer 3:8) Even if we were to fail altogether to discern that Jesus is speaking PROPHETICALLY in accounts like Matthew 24 and 25, a seemingly endless stream of SUBSEQUENT prophecies of his Apostles confirm that he indeed was.

Agape love;
Sol

[RR144]

He and his adherents mock and expel anyone who understands the Scriptures better than Robert or does not praise him.

Well, I can testify to that. I was recently on King's forum, I lasted less than a month before he banned me because I dared to disagree with his views. Funny thing is he once stated that he was anointed with the same holy spirit that C.T. Russell was, (whatever that means). He recommended Russell's "Studies in the Scriptures", but when I shared C.T. Russell's views as an alternative to what King taught, I was told I didn't know what I was talking about. Then his followers would make comments like, "That isn't what Robert King teaches", "That's not what Robert King says", "Have you read Robert King's article on that subject?" Does that sound familiar? Isn't that what we use to say about the Society? "The Society says ..." "Did you read the Society's article on ...". These poor deluded people have exchanged the Society for the Robert King.

I have known about Robert for some 30 years. I remember when he predicted a stock market crash that would cripple the world and usher in Armageddon. Then he predicted that Y2K would being about the end. Now he's a self-proclaimed prophet, who does not tolerate anyone disagreeing with his theology.

RR

[Sage Hill]

He and his adherents mock and expel anyone who understands the Scriptures better than Robert or does not praise him.

Well, I can testify to that. I was recently on King's forum, I lasted less than a month before he banned me because I dared to disagree with his views. Funny thing is he once stated that he was anointed with the same holy spirit that C.T. Russell was, (whatever that means). He recommended Russell's "Studies in the Scriptures", but when I shared C.T. Russell's views as an alternative to what King taught, I was told I didn't know what I was talking about. Then his followers would make comments like, "That isn't what Robert King teaches", "That's not what Robert King says", "Have you read Robert King's article on that subject?" Does that sound familiar? Isn't that what we use to say about the Society? "The Society says ..." "Did you read the Society's article on ...". These poor deluded people have exchanged the Society for the Robert King.

I have known about Robert for some 30 years. I remember when he predicted a stock market crash that would cripple the world and usher in Armageddon. Then he predicted that Y2K would being about the end. Now he's a self-proclaimed prophet, who does not tolerate anyone disagreeing with his theology.

RR

I have been going to Robert's forum for the past several months. My views are evolving and changing. I have just very recently woken up. I no longer agree with some of what he teaches and I'm sure that if I voiced that, I too would be banned. I don't like that feeling. It's the same dark feeling I get at the Kingdom Hall, knowing that if those people knew what I really believed, they would all shun me. Ever since last Summer I've been flopping around trying to get my bearings. It seems like most are here for good reasons, spiritual reasons. It's very hard to find that anywhere, as most ex-Jw's are all about moaning and complaining about their past in the organization with very little focus on anything spiritually upbuilding. I just barely landed here, but as far as I can see so far, it looks like this group may be different. I hope so. I know Eric's articles are very helpful.

[Proselytiser of Jah]

I have been going to Robert's forum for the past several months. My views are evolving and changing. I have just very recently woken up. I no longer agree with some of what he teaches and I'm sure that if I voiced that, I too would be banned. I don't like that feeling. It's the same dark feeling I get at the Kingdom Hall, knowing that if those people knew what I really believed, they would all shun me. Ever since last Summer I've been flopping around trying to get my bearings. It seems like most are here for good reasons, spiritual reasons. It's very hard to find that anywhere, as most ex-Jw's are all about moaning and complaining about their past in the organization with very little focus on anything spiritually upbuilding. I just barely landed here, but as far as I can see so far, it looks like this group may be different. I hope so. I know Eric's articles are very helpful.

Nice to meet you Sage

Yes, I have the same mentality. I do not want to focus on the past, or the WT, or bitterness.

It's harder for some than it is for others of course, as I've had the luxury of having no real "bad experiences" in the Org. It was only my disagreement with their teachings via Bible study that woke me really for the most part. So I've never felt like a "victim".

But regardless, as you say, it's good for all of us to move on if we can, and focus on the truth of Jesus' message, rather than live in the past. That's why I made my website, with the focus on Bible study and preaching, as opposed to zoning in on attacking the Org, or other churches.

I figure truth will make itself abundant, and as a result, falsehood in comparison will expose itself for what it is, without me having to point at it.

[Stranger]

Ever since last Summer I've been flopping around trying to get my bearings.

Hello Sage Hill,

Welcome to this blessed site. If I had seen your post earlier I would have said hello sooner. The owner of this site which is Apollos of Alexandria, is a really cool person with no intention on forming a cult following, so don't be afraid to open up.

You're right about most ex-JW sites wanting to have a following and capture all the fish coming through the channel. No worries here though because the fish in this pond are all too big to swallow.

I hope you enjoy you're time here and post abundantly.


Stranger, (Heb 2:10)

[Sage Hill]

I have been going to Robert's forum for the past several months. My views are evolving and changing. I have just very recently woken up. I no longer agree with some of what he teaches and I'm sure that if I voiced that, I too would be banned. I don't like that feeling. It's the same dark feeling I get at the Kingdom Hall, knowing that if those people knew what I really believed, they would all shun me. Ever since last Summer I've been flopping around trying to get my bearings. It seems like most are here for good reasons, spiritual reasons. It's very hard to find that anywhere, as most ex-Jw's are all about moaning and complaining about their past in the organization with very little focus on anything spiritually upbuilding. I just barely landed here, but as far as I can see so far, it looks like this group may be different. I hope so. I know Eric's articles are very helpful.

Nice to meet you Sage

Yes, I have the same mentality. I do not want to focus on the past, or the WT, or bitterness.

It's harder for some than it is for others of course, as I've had the luxury of having no real "bad experiences" in the Org. It was only my disagreement with their teachings via Bible study that woke me really for the most part. So I've never felt like a "victim".

But regardless, as you say, it's good for all of us to move on if we can, and focus on the truth of Jesus' message, rather than live in the past. That's why I made my website, with the focus on Bible study and preaching, as opposed to zoning in on attacking the Org, or other churches.

I figure truth will make itself abundant, and as a result, falsehood in comparison will expose itself for what it is, without me having to point at it.

It's nice to meet you too. It's such a blessing to find a place to talk about spiritual things where we can feel free to be open and at the same time, we're not going to be inundated with negative talk. And I believe you're right, if we focus on truth, falsehood will expose itself. No need for bitter invective.

[Sage Hill]

Ever since last Summer I've been flopping around trying to get my bearings.

Hello Sage Hill,

Welcome to this blessed site. If I had seen your post earlier I would have said hello sooner. The owner of this site which is Apollos of Alexandria, is a really cool person with no intention on forming a cult following, so don't be afraid to open up.

You're right about most ex-JW sites wanting to have a following and capture all the fish coming through the channel. No worries here though because the fish in this pond are all too big to swallow.

I hope you enjoy you're time here and post abundantly.


Stranger, (Heb 2:10)

Hello Stranger,

Thank you for the welcome. And yes, the last thing I want to do is land in someone's cult. I feel extremely wary after everything I've been through. But I also feel like I need to to feel at home in some faith community. I've been praying for help in that area. I hope this will be that home.

[Stranger]

I feel extremely wary after everything I've been through. But I also feel like I need to to feel at home in some faith community. I've been praying for help in that area. I hope this will be that home.

Hi Sage,

Well the perks that come with this site can be very fulfilling, with all the spirited knowledge that abounds here, I hope you can feel at home here with your faith, I've been here over 4yrs and have never in the least felt wary of any one wanting to be in this neighborhood.

Welcome aboard!


Stranger, (Pr 27:10)