Maths Virus 1914

[Marina]

Next one -in this one I step through the scriptures of Jeremiah and Ezekiel to show you exactly how Watchtower's maths trick is actually done.



This my description of the video on YouTube

FORGET DATES AND FORGET THE 7 GENTILE TIMES.
BY USING SIMPLE ARITHMETIC WHICH COMES FROM JUST 7 SCRIPTURES YOU CAN PROVE THAT WATCHTOWER’S 1914 DOCTRINE IS WRONG AND THAT WATCHTOWER PUBLISHERS ARE NOT JEHOVAH’S WITNESSES AS DEFINED BY THE PROPHET ISAIAH.
Watchtower’s authority is based on 1914 and the idea that the 7 Gentile Times are 2520 years from the year 607 BCE.
Watchtower overseers have NO SCRIPTURAL BASIS for disfellowshipping you as one of Jehovah’s Witnesses because they are not Jehovah’s Witnesses. In fact, they are opposed to Jehovah’s Witnesses because they contradict the words of the prophets Jeremiah, Ezekiel and Daniel. The simple arithmetic shown in this video proves this beyond any shadow of a doubt.
If you want to understand the 7 scriptures that prove Watchtower is wrong, watch this video then quietly think it all through yourself. Once you know which scriptures to look at and how they work together you will see just how simple this is. The key part of this video is at 00:39:17 - 01:14:26. THIS COVERS THE TIMELINE FROM JEREMIAH AND EZEKIEL’S HAMMER BLOW.
Below are chapter timestamps if you want to jump to a specific subject within the video.

Also if you want to jump around in the video you will find I have put chapter timestamps in the content notes beneath the video to help you navigate it.

Also links to new websites

--- FOR BIBLE DATES AND WELL RESEARCHED ARTICLES ON THE SCRIPTURES ---
www.understandtheword.com

--- THE GOVERNING BODY UNDER THE SPOTLIGHT ---
www.governingbody.net

--- TO ENCOURAGE EXISTING WITNESSES TO WAKE UP TO THE MISUNDERSTANDINGS AND SOMETIMES OUTRIGHT LIES THEY ARE BEING TAUGHT BY THE ORGANIZATION ---
www.awakenjw.com

[Orchid61]

Hi Marina,

Looking at your newest video at first I feel goofy eyed, there is so much going on, I am again flabbergasted how you even can produce such a difficult object.

I am glad to say the main mesage is : THEY, THE GB, ARE WRONG !!!!!!!
The sad part is they are insisted their followers to accept their view.

Thank you once again for your hard work.



Maria

[Bobcat]

Hi Maria and Marina,

Maria has me itching to see it. But I have to wait till after the work day is over. Looking forward to seeing it.


Bobcat

[Marina]

Hi Maria

Yes isn't it amazing how it makes you go goofy eyed. As if hidden.

It is not difficult to understand once you get that you ONLY NEED 7 SCRIPTURES. Jeremiah gives you a timeline from the 13th year of Josiah down to the 19th year of Nebuchadnezzar, then the prophet Ezekiel delivers the hammer blow to Watchtower using the unspoken number 19 and the spoken number 14 at Ezekiel 40:1.

It is breathtakingly clever on the part of Jehovah. And so simple (once you get it) that a 7 year old could work it out. Maybe even a 5 year old. The most that's demanded of you it the ability to count up to 55.

And no new dates required.

I don't doubt it'll take a few views before the meaning sinks in. That's why I cut it up into smaller timestamped chapters so you can just watch whatever bit is of interest rather than sitting through the whole thing.

[Orchid61]

It is breathtakingly clever on the part of Jehovah.

It is isnt it. Thank you for sharing this pearl with us all.

I hope everybody at DTT is going to watch it

Love Maria

[Get out of her]

Hello again Marina:

When it comes to this teaching of the Watchtower organization that we refer to as the 1914 doctrine, the fact is there are SEVERAL things about it that are out of harmony with God's word. I have been demonstrating this with the scriptures for some time now. In fact they have long seemed determined to make their teachings on this subject INCREASINGLY unscriptural over the years.

I'll admit I have not read very much of what you have written on the subject here on this website, but the reason for this is that based on everything I have seen so far, you always seem focused on the one thing about this prophecy that the JW Corporation nearly got correct. This is namely the starting point for the 2,520 year time span that the scriptures also later assigned to this prophecy. (Re 12:6, 14) (Ez 4:6) (Nu 14:32) (Da 4:23, 32) Since the prophet Jeremiah made it very clear that the starting point for calculating the "appointed times of the nations" or otherwise what is also referred to with terms like "the time of foreign exile and captivity of God's people" would have begun with the reign of ancient King Jehoiakim, I was hoping you could help me better understand why you always seem fixated on attacking a time calculation that was only around two years off. (Jer 1:3) (Lu 21:24) (Da 4:23, 32) Historians all seem to agree that Jehoiakim began his reign sometime in the year 609 BCE.

However even if the organization was off by around two decades or so as many people insist, (as most fail to recognize that the scriptures are always focused on a SPIRITUAL "fall" as opposed to a literal/military one, and a LITERAL one NEVER occurs in the case of GOD'S people), I would still be a bit puzzled over why almost everyone seems to be up in arms over it. 20 years is of course virtually nothing in a context of over two and a half millenniums. Did I miss something here that you might perhaps be able to help me with?

It occurs to me that you are perhaps also attacking the notion of the 2,520 year time span altogether, but I assure you there is no call for this. I mean no disrespect when I point out the following:

The moment one realizes that this "seven times" or even "seven kings" prophecy was ALWAYS much more about a rise and fall of seven foreign world powers with "anointed" kings holding God's people captive which would correspond with seven broken and subsequently renewed "holy covenants" than it was about merely the span of time over which these acts of spiritual "harlotry" on their part would occur, this is the same moment that calculating this span of time basically becomes as easy as knowing how to count to seven. (Da 4:23, 32 11:30-32) (Re 17:9-11) (Isa 44:28 45:1) Regardless of what manner we choose or even do NOT choose to perform this calculation, we end up somewhere in the early 1900s for the fulfillment of this prophecy.

As I've stated before, It appears it was actually Sir Isaac Newton in reality that initially utilized the scriptures to point to the early part of the 1900s for the fulfillment of this time calculation rather than the International Bible Students Association, and since there was INDEED yet another rise and fall of a SEVENTH foreign world power directly in that time frame, all indications are that he understood the scriptures correctly on this as far back as two centuries earlier. In fact I recognize it as far beyond coincidence that just as had already been demonstrated for us with the Apostle John around the year of 98 CE in connection with the spiritual fall of the FIFTH foretold foreign king of this "seven times" prophecy, one or two of the leading members of the International Bible Students Association openly announced a complete apostasy among their ranks sometime around 1912 if recall correctly. (1 Joh 2:18) I'm certain it was ALSO no coincidence that the headquarters of this religious organization was based right inside the borders of the very same foreign world power that would now soon be replaced with a kind of "eighth king." (Re 17:11) This of course we all refer to now as the United Nations.

Agape love;
Sol

[Bobcat]

Hi Marina,

I enjoyed the video very much. I also like the quality of your voice. It works well with the subject. Looking forward to the follow on ones and the putting together of your whole presentation of the 7 verses you are referring to.


Bobcat

[coccus ilicis]

Hello Marina
and others interested in this topic,

Your Youtube video is indeed well-done. I noticed you have published excerpts from a letter you received from Raymond Franz, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxi5co ... ogg/videos

For those that still have the WT publication, an Aid to Bible Understanding, published in 1971,’ check the entry for Chronology, page 322 to page 348. You will find that the brothers, including Raymond Franz, involved in its research, had seen the error and appear to have struggled to make their findings conform to the rationale of the 1914 date. They most probably had been forced to put in the fog, as Marinna calls it, to get it passed for publication. Shortly after that, Raymond Franz and others involved in the research were disfellowshipped. The grassroots JW’s had no idea why, and all sorts of rumours were making the rounds, including homosexuality. As you say in your video, even 'The Time' magazine, which is essentially a political journal, published an article concerning the goings-on in the governing body under the heading, 'Witness Under Prosecution' By Richard N. Ostling, 1982.

The ‘Aid to Bible Understanding’ was withdrawn and replaced with the beautifully illustrated two-volume ‘Insight on the Scriptures’ Bible commentary. At the time of its release, the witnesses were told that it was essentially the same as the 'Aid to Bible Understanding,' adding that the new printing presses had made it possible to include coloured pictures and diagrams in the Insight commentary. But I encourage those who still have the 'Aid book to compare the entry under Chronology with that in the Insight books, and they will find a large chunk deleted.

Why?

Why withdraw an informative book on which thousands of man-hours had been spent, only to replace it with another coloured version containing the same material? Who provided the money for the new printing presses? And why allow baseless rumours to circulate unchallenged? If they had been aware that the 607BC date was not the date for Jerusalem's destruction, why not just admit it to their brothers and sisters. They must have been aware of the consequences of failing to come clean. And yet that is what they did not do, but instead covered it up, became paranoid and started to beat their fellow slaves, (Mt 24:48,49).

Could there, therefore, be another more sinister underlying reason for their sticking to their guns, one that is disparagingly labelled a conspiracy theory?

Let’s look at some undeniable facts. There can be no doubt that C. T. Russell was a Zionist, or at the very least, a Zionist sympathiser. Google: Zionism (Hebrew: צִיּוֹנוּת ‎ Tsiyyonut after Zion) is both an ideology and nationalist movement among the Jewish people that espouses the re-establishment of and support for a Jewish state centred in the area roughly corresponding to Canaan, the Holy Land, or the region of Palestine. He extolled Zionism and included regular Zionist news bulletins in Zion’s Watchtower of the 1890s, where the 1914 date was first mentioned. Digitized copies can be found here, Watchtower Archive. .

Note that then it was called Zion’s Watchtower. One can find a transcript of Russell's famous 1910 Hippodrome speech on Jewish Hopes here, https://archive.org/details/JewishHopesByC.t.Russell. And he is featured in an article in the Haaretz Pastor Russell a Neglected Chapter of Zionism. One cannot deny these facts. The date 1914 had most likely been bandied around in Zionist circles with 607BC as a start date for the count. Whether it originated with Russell or with another Zionist is a moot point. WW1 came in on time, but after Russel died, and when all that the Zionists had hoped for did not eventuate, Zionists retained the 607BC start date but substituted the seven times 360 day year with a seven times 365 day year.

JWs use this formula to arrive at 1914 - minus 607 BC plus (7x360 day-years) 2520 yrs. comes to 1913/14.

The war started on time, and after 1917 was extended, making it a World War, which would overthrow the Ottoman Empire so that Palestine could be given as a homeland for the Jews. Balfour Declaration. A religious consortium headed by the Vatican put a spanner in the works ...With the advent of the declaration and the British entry into Jerusalem on 9 December, the Vatican reversed its earlier sympathetic attitude to Zionism and adopted an oppositional stance that was to continue until the early 1990s. . From memory, it was after the war that the WT publications began a campaign denouncing the League of Nations and the Vatican.

And the Zionists reset the dates using the 7 X 365-day formula. For confirmation, watch the two videos featured in post 208, here as Rabbi Jonathan Cahn addresses the audience at the Presidential Inaugural Prayer Breakfast and the one where he speaks to President Trump about end times.
Here are the dates he refers to:

When the Jews are granted Palestine by U.N mandate:

• Nebuchadnezzar’s first incursion into Jerusalem, minus 607(BC) plus (7x365 day-yrs.) 2555 yrs.= 1948 - the nation-state of Israel ascends out of the abyss in preparation for becoming the 8th king (Rev 17:11)

Jerusalem destroyed

• minus 587(BC) plus 2555 yrs. =1967/68, the 6-day war, Zionists captured Jerusalem and repossess it

Jews liberated from Babylon

• minus 537(BC) plus 2555 yrs. = 2018, 2017/18. America recognizes Jerusalem as Israel's capital

The above leads us to conclude that what was disparagingly called a conspiracy theory is well attested to by facts. Now for a bit of speculation. Since 2018 was the last date mentioned, could it be that that is why they are now under pressure to bring in the 8th beast (Dan 7:8,20-22; Rev17:11)? And what will the Watchtower organization do? Will it remove the name Jehovah and call itself the Watchtower of the Lord's Witnesses so that they can be included amongst the leaders of the proposed global church? See, posts 215 & 218, here and post 268 & 269, here. If it does, what will the grassroots members do? Will they remain and become the Lord’s witnesses, or will they get out and take their place among those who have been disfellowshipped?

[Marina]

Hi Coccus Ilicis

Your post is very interesting. Thanks.

There was something I did not put in the video because it would have made it too long. I alluded to it when I spoke of the 7 times. The fact is the 7 times first have to be fitted into Nebuchadnezzar's reign somewhere so you can tell how long a time really is. A time is not necessarily 360 days and certainly it cannot ever be 365 days (I realize you are not saying it is but it's what the Zionists say). 365 days is the number you divide time, times and half a time by to work out how long a time really is.

This link should take you straight to the part where I am talking about the 7 Times

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACZp-Csg0s8&t=4007s

If that link doesn't work for you the video point you want to navigate to is 1:06:47 to 1:14:00
The chapter/timestamp section is called - The 2520 years (the 7 Gentile Times) are open to question. Rev 11:2, 3 and Rev 12 :14.



You'll see I speak about the possibility of a time being 168 days long, therefore the 7 times would only be 1176 - so Nebuchadnezzar could have lost his ability to reason for only 3.5 years. I think that might sit better with what happened to his hair and nails (Dan 4:33). After all how long would his nails be after 7 years?

what happens to your nails if you don't cut them for 3 years

So let's say 7 times is only 1176 days and then count 1176 from 607 BCE - where do we get to? 569 CE. And will a little fiddling around you can get that to 570 CE. Now who was born circa 570 CE? Mohammed.

Combine that with the 3 stage plan of history which Communists who are associated with a certain kind of Jewish belief and you've a radical alternative to Jesus' Christ's 2nd coming. Rendering it as Mohammed and some twisted version of the Paraclete resulting in a theocracy/governing body far removed from truth, let alone science and tiny bit of simple maths.

I understand that the New International Version of the Bible can be used to suddenly turn Jesus into Lucifer by messing with the latin word for light.

At the end of my video I talk about how I have found that most if not all WT false doctrines have their basis in Theosufism. Drop the word 'theo' and you are left with 'sufism'. Sufism is a kind of Islam - so in one fell swoop WT could boot out Jesus, replace him with the Paraclet (aka holy spirit), say they have a new improved version of the BIble called the Watchtower and if you don't agree with them, well tut tut tut. Out you go. They can bring in the Communist 3-Stage Plan of History and say the Messiah a an age which started in 570 CE or 1914 or 1948 or whatever. Because once people start to swallow this rubbish, they'll believe anything and be too scared to stand up for the truth, let alone a tiny bit of simple maths. And isn't that what George Orwell warned of in 1984 - which he was going to call.... 1948.

Quotes by George Orwell from book 1984
“Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.”
“Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past.”
"In the end, the Party would announce that two and two made five, and you would have to believe it. "

Other quote from George Orwell
“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”

It would appear that turning 2+2 into something other than 4 was well known in days gone by and the very debauched Lord Byron viewed it as desirable.

In the 19th century, in a personal letter to his future wife, Anabella Milbanke, Lord Byron said: "I know that two and two make four—& should be glad to prove it, too, if I could—though I must say if, by any sort of process, I could convert 2 & 2 into five, it would give me much greater pleasure."[9]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_%2B_2_%3D_5

I think WT and associated parties have walked into the biggest trap there has ever been. WT is not even the film of dust on the scales to Jehovah.

(Isaiah 40:15-17) . . .Look! The nations are as a drop from a bucket; and as the film of dust on the scales they have been accounted. Look! He lifts the islands themselves as mere fine [dust]. 16 Even Lebanon is not sufficient for keeping a fire burning, and its wild animals are not sufficient for a burnt offering. 17 All the nations are as something nonexistent in front of him; as nothing and an unreality they have been accounted to him. . .

(Isaiah 47:8) 8 And now hear this, you pleasure-given [woman], the one sitting in security, the one saying in her heart: “I am, and there is nobody else. I shall not sit as a widow, and I shall not know the loss of children. . .

(Revelation 18:7-8) . . .For in her heart she keeps saying, ‘I sit a queen, and I am no widow, and I shall never see mourning.’ 8 That is why in one day her plagues will come, death and mourning and famine, and she will be completely burned with fire, because the Lord God, who judged her, is strong. . .



I will check out the Bible Aid book - and thanks for the links to the back issues of the WT.

[coccus ilicis]

Hi Marina,

Yes, the link works, that's a neat shortcut. You say:

The fact is the 7 times first have to be fitted into Nebuchadnezzar's reign somewhere so you can tell how long a time really is.

And in your video you connect the 'time, times and half a time' of Rev 12:14 to the 42 months or 1260 days with the length of time that the two witnesses do their work. Yes, these periods correspond. The two witnesses do their work in the symbolic wilderness.

The confusion arises because of the phrase ...time, times and half a time...(Rev 12:4). In English and in the Greek LXX, the phrase at Dan 7:25 is identical. But in the Hebrew/Aramaic text of Daniel, several different words are rendered time, each with its own meaning and connotation. ...an idea or feeling which a word invokes for a person in addition to its literal or primary meaning...So before one can begin to answer that question one needs to check what the word rendered time means and how it is used in scripture. But before that, a brief recap of history is necessary to understand why the translators have seen fit to render the word in question as 'time.'

Before Moses died he said to one branch of the tribe of Levi ... For I well know your rebelliousness and your stiff neck. If while I am yet alive with you today, you have proved rebellious in your behaviour toward Jehovah, how much more so after my death... For I well know that after my death you will without fail act ruinously, and you will certainly turn aside from the way I have commanded you, and calamity will befall you at the close of the days... (De 31:25-29). This long term prophecy can be traced through the Bible and it is now reaching its climax when calamity will befall them. At the time when Moses said the above the Aaronic priesthood had remained loyal to Jehovah, but around 450BC it faltered (Dan 8:10-12). It requires that the reader be acquainted with many Bible verses, dealing with the time of the end, that have been glossed over and misinterpreted. Daniel was told ...As for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of the end. Many will rove about and the knowing/understanding, [of the sealed-up book] shall increase ... (Dan 12:4). I apologize that I cannot explain this more simply, but this is part of the secret that would not be understood until the final part of the days. We are now in that time, so we have to put on our thinking caps and knuckle under and not allow our former indoctrination to do our thinking for us, but we need to check and determine what the original text is actually saying.

The transgressings (adj. pl), mentioned at Dan 8:23, started around 450 BC, when the Sopherim/scribes changed the Hebrew text, see post 33, here and post 248, here. This altered Hebrew text and the LXX serves as the basis for English translations. But since then thousands of earlier manuscripts and fragments of manuscripts have been discovered and there has been a general awakening (Dan 12:2), with many making an effort to understand, cleansing and whitening themselves, and others preferring the status quo. It says of the latter ... and the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly and no wicked ones at all will understand...(Dan 12:10). Although interlinears and concordances still provide the traditional Bible usage of words, with the help of the tools now available online it is possible to discover the root meaning of the words used. Those that do are among the many that rove about causing an increase in knowledge/understanding of that which was made secret and had been sealed up,(Dan 12:4).

The Sopherim scribes that translated the text into Greek render these clearly different words as καιρού/time. To be kind this may have been because the original word did not fit their narrative of that time and therefore made no sense, or they may have done it deliberately to make the prophecy fit a narrative of their own devising. Knowing human nature it was probably a bit of both, we humans like to think we have all the answers.

Compare the Greek Dan 7, LXX. here with the Heb/Aramaic interlinear BH interlinear Dan 7:25, here. Ignore the English rendering of the Heb./Aaramaic text, but focus on the transliteration of the H/A word and note Strong’s number above the word. Then right-click on 2166 above zim nin of the phrase ...and he will intend to change times and law... and open this link in a new tab, where the left-hand column gives you the definition and its usage in Bibles and the right-hand columns shows you where it occurs. Scroll down the LH column to where it says ...(Aramaic) corresponding to zeman open that link in a new tab and you arrive at the basic meaning of the word, 'appointed time, time.' And in the RH column it tells you where that word occurs in the Bible.

Now let us do the same for time as in the phrase ...time, times and half a time in the same verse, (Dan 7:25). Right-click above iddan/time and open 5732 iddan in a new tab. In the RH column, you will see where it occurs. Scroll down the left-hand column to NAS Exhaustive Concordance it says corresponding to iddah. Open this link and you will see that the base meaning of this word is menstruation. Now go back to the 5732 iddah link, and scroll past the NAS in the LH column to Strong’s Exhaustive Concordance. It says (Aramaic) from a root corresponding to that of ed . Open ed and you have found the root meaning of the Heb. word. In the RH column you see it only occurs in one scripture, at Isa 64:6 ...and we have become like someone unclean, and all our righteousness are as a garment for periods of menstruation... That is the definition of iddah, which has been rendered 'time' in English both at Dan 7:25 and at Dan 4:16. But just to make sure, go back to the iddah 5732 site and check the right-hand column. Yes, it occurs at Dan 4:16 - ...Let its heart be changed from that of mankind, and let the heart of a beast be given it and let seven periods of menstruation pass over it...

So how long is a period of menstruation, is it a period of a definite length of time, or does it vary. The only pivotal date one has to work from is when the flow of menstrual blood has stopped then one can count the days from when it started. Nebuchadnezzar refers to this as the end of the days ... At the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted up to heaven my eyes, and my understanding began to return to me and I blessed the most high himself ... at that time, 2166 zeman, my understanding itself began to return to me... (Dan 4:34,36). That time has not yet arrived so there is no way of calculating the length of these particular periods of menstruation in advance, but at the end of it ... people living... know that the most high is ruler in the kingdom of mankind and to the one he wants to he gives it, and he sets up over it even the lowliest one of mankind... Dan 4:17

But there is more to discover concerning the connection between the periods of menstruation and the erroneous translation and interpretation of the seventy-week prophecy (Dan 9:24,25, 26). I have already touched on this elsewhere but will explain what I have so far found again if necessary. Like any complex subject, understanding increases each time one goes over the material.

With regard to the 42 months or 1260 days of Rev 11:2,3. This refers to the length of time that the two witnesses do their work. it may well be a literal 1260 day period, but again one has to know the exact start-time to know when it ends. It only says ... And when they have finished their witnessing the beast that rises out of the abyss, [the 8th king, Rev 17:11] will make war with them and conquer them and kill them... (Rev 11:7). It is at that time they are given into the hand of the 8th king (Dan 7:8).
Their corpses are not laid in a tomb but are displayed for 3½ days, which corresponds to and they will be given into his hand for a time, [period of menstruation], times and half a time... (Dan 7:25). And after another period of 3½ days, they are called up to heaven, (Rev 1:11).

These two 3½ day periods correspond to the 'one week' of Dan 9:27, at the half of which, the 8th king causes sacrifice and gift offering to cease. They are silenced and cease their witnessing at the half of the week. Thus it appears that for the first half of that final week, (the 3½ days) corresponds to the 1260 days if their witnessing, at the end of which they are figuratively killed i.e. silenced. At that time all gift offerings cease (Dan (9:27). And for the second half of that week, (3½ day/years), before they are called up to heaven, corresponds to the period when the covenant is kept in force for the many for one week (Dan 9:27). The many, may possibly refer to the gathering of the great crowd, but we'll have to wait and see.

It is indeed a convoluted complex secret that has been further covered up with wrong translation of the original words. But Jesus assures us ...there is nothing covered over that will not become uncovered, and secret that will not become known... And as Daniel was told ... many will rove about and the knowledge [of that which was made secret and sealed up] will become abundant... (Mt 10:26; Dan 12:4)