Revelation

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#361 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Revelation
Prelude to the Thousand Year Reign

The Two Witnesses part 2

In post 359 above, I said:
This is a lot to take in for those not used to checking the interlinear but it gets easier with practice, and the closer one looks the more one can see that the bible was changed to conform to the prevailing belief when all the virgins went to sleep. The two ears of grain are the two witnesses, the despised small things. These two ears of grain are omitted when the harvesters tie the weeds into bundles in the near offing. At which time they will shine as brightly as the sun in the kingdom of their father (Mt 13:43)
As I said is gets a little easier with practice, but practice only enables one to understand what previously was gobbledegook better. But no matter how hard one looks that which is hidden remains hidden. It is Jehovah who seals up and it is Jesus who breaks open the seal shortly before the 7th angel is about to blow his trumpet (Rev 10:7). And a strong angel calls out: "Who is worthy to open the scroll and loose its seals?" But neither in heaven nor on earth nor underneath the earth, was there found one able to open the scroll or look into it ... And John starts to weep and is told to stop that: "Look! The lion of the tribe of Judah the Root of David has conquered, [cf. Isa 53:2], so as to open the scroll and its seals... And I saw standing in the midst of the throne ... a lamb as though it had been slaughtered, [Isa 53:7,10], having seven horns and seven eyes, which means the seven spirits of God that have been sent forth into the whole earth... And he took the scroll out of the hand of the one seated on the throne and all those around the throne sing a new song: Saying you are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, because you were slaughtered, [aorist passive], and with your blood, you buy, [aorist], persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation and you make, [aorist], them to be a kingdom of priests to our God and they will reign upon/over, [cf. Rev 2:26, 9:11, 17:18], the earth...(Rev 5:2-10)

Before being slaughtered this lamb said to those of his followers who would remain loyal to him ...If people have called the householder Beelzebub, how much more will they call those of his household so? Therefore do not fear them; for there is nothing covered over that will not be uncovered, and secret that will not become known... (Mt 10:25,26). We are now in that time period when the scroll has been unsealed and that which has been secret is being made known.

In the prophecy of Zechariah concerning the two witnesses, the two ears of wheat Zech 4:12, cf Gen 41:5, which has been mistranslated bunches of twigs or branches, there are also other words that have been mistranslated to make the prophecy conform to a religious narrative. One needs to look at these to get a glimpse of what has been covered over and to understand what the seven thunders said concerning these two ears of grain, aka, the two witnesses, (Rev 10:4,7,8-11).

The angel said to Zechariah, "The very hands of Zerubbabel, [see the picture in post 359, above], have laid the foundation of this household, [ not temple, cf. Ex 12:4, see pic. below], and his own hands will finish it... For who has despised the day of small things.

Image

This prophecy is not about rebuilding the physical temple in Jerusalem, but about rebuilding God’s household, which began in Babylon. But more on that later.

Another mistranslated word that has a bearing on this is plummet. The NWT reads thus: For who has despised the day of small things? And they will certainly see the plummet in the hand of Zerubbabel. (Zec 4:10). This appears to have been taken from the Latin Vulgate: http://www.latinvulgate.com/verse.aspx?t=0&b=43&c=4. To see how other English versions have rendered this, see, https://biblehub.com/parallel/zechariah/4-10.htm. Smith’s Literal Translation is closest to the Hebrew.

A plummet is a builder’s tool used for ascertaining true vertical, this is not what is in Zerubbabel's hand. A literal reading of the Hebrew text is ... they rejoice and see the stone, the alloy/tin, in the hand of Zerubbabel. Zech. 4:10. The stone referred to is a cut stone such as a gemstone ( 68 Eben, as at Gen 2:12), or a builders block or brick (as at Gen 11:13; 28:3). Tin first patented in 1810, is not in the Bible. Hebrew, bedil, as used at Zech 4:10, (see RH column, 913. bedil ) is also referred to at Isa 1:25. Jehovah said concerning Jerusalem ... And I will turn back my hand upon you and I shall remove your dross and take away all your bedil/alloy
Google: An alloy... is made up of two or more chemical elements, of which at least one is a metal. ...Most alloys are made by melting the metals, mixing them while they are liquid to form a solution, then leaving them to cool and turn solid again
At Zech 13:9 it says concerning this process...And I shall certainly bring the third part through the fire, and I shall refine them as in the refining of silver and examine them as in the examining of gold. It for its part will call upon my name, and I for my part will answer it. I will say, .'It is my people, and it for its part will say, ' Jehovah is my God.' Do you begin to get the sense of how this prophecy is connected to the two ears of grain, the two witnesses of Rev 11:3,4?
LRW~

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Re: Revelation

#362 Post by AmosAU » 1 month ago

Hi CI,

Thanks for your latest post here. This is the type of digging deeper, that the wise virgins should be doing. It is only by digging deeper that we can remove the dross of mistranslation.

Our modern print and reading based society, needs to be able to understand what the original oral society had been transmitting orally for decades and in some cases for centuries. Each of these societies are based on an opposite spectrum of perception and understanding. They can become compatible only after we are able to understand what the original oral method of transmission actually was saying, what it meant to the original recipients of the message.

Regards, Amos.

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#363 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Revelation
Prelude to the Thousand Year Reign

The Two Witnesses part 2 continued.

In post 361 above I said concerning the prophecy of Zecheriah chapter four,
This prophecy is not about rebuilding the physical temple in Jerusalem, but about rebuilding God’s household, which began in Babylon. But more on that later...
A plummet is a builder’s tool used for ascertaining true vertical, this is not what is in Zerubbabel's hand. A literal reading of the Hebrew text is ... they rejoice and see the stone, the alloy/tin, in the hand of Zerubbabel. Zech. 4:10. The stone referred to is a cut stone such as a gemstone ( 68 Eben, as at Gen 2:12), or a builders block or brick (as at Gen 11:13; 28:3)
This stone, although given a different Strong's number, is the same stone as at Dan 2:34

Image

Daniel interprets Nebuchadnezzar's dream of this image of successive kingdoms, starting with Nebuchadnezzar, as the head of gold and ending with toes made of iron and malleable clay, saying concerning the toes: And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms and it itself will stand to times indefinite; for as much as you beheld that out of the mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and that it crushed the iron, the bronze/copper, the moulded clay, the silver and the gold, the great God himself has made known what is to occur after this... (Dan 2:44,45)

Note, that although this is a cut stone, it is not cut by human hands. And compare ...This is the word of Jehovah to Zerubbabel, seed of Babel, 2234. zera, seed, with seed of mankind here, Dan 2:43. Also note, the positioning of the malleable/moist clay in verse 45, is between the bronze and silver of the successive kingdoms. So this malleable clay first appeared in the latter part of the Medo/Persian empire, before the Greek empire. To what then, does this clay refer? Jehovah says: ... Woe to the stubborn sons... those disposed to carry out counsel but not from me, and to pour out a libation, but not with my spirit...in view of your despising/rejecting this word and since you men trust in defrauding and in what is devious to support yourself, therefore, this error will become like a broken section about to fall down, a swelling out of a highly raised wall, the breakdown of which will come suddenly... And one will certainly break it as in the breaking of a large jar of the potter's vessel, so that there cannot be found among its crushed pieces a fragment of earthenware , [same as at Dan 2:43], with which to rake the fire...(Isa 30:1,12-14). And Paul says, ... We have this treasure in earthenwear vessels, that the power beyond what is normal may be God's and not that out of ourselves,( 2Cor 4:7). Therefore this clay/earthenware refers to the ones responsible for communicating God's word to mankind.

Jehovah said to Zechariah, ...not by military force, nor by power, but by my spirit... Who are you, O great mountain? Before Zerubbabel you will become a level land, and I will certainly bring forth a head stone, [see pic. Zec 4:7 above], ...The very hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this household and his own hand will finish it...(Zec 4:6,7)

The seed of Babel/Zerubbabel laid the foundation of God's household, with the copying and preserving of God's word in the time of Ezra,

"... Ezra came up from Babylon; and he was a skilled scribe in the Law of Moses, which the LORD God of Israel had given.
"... Ezra the priest, the scribe, expert in the words of the commandments of the LORD, and of His statutes to Israel."
(Ezra 7:6,11)
Ezra was the first in a long line of Sopherim (Scribes) who were given the task of refining the scriptures, maintaining their accuracy, and providing a correct interpretation of their meaning...
Being a Sopher (Scribe) did not have anything to do with one’s character, it had to do with their ability to maintain the integrity of the Hebrew Scriptures as well as work with other important religious and state documents.
~ The Emendations ~
An emendation is an "alteration intended to improve." The Sopherim, in a misguided zeal for God and the Scriptures, took it upon themselves to make some changes to the manuscripts which were handed down to them. This might seem like a terrible thing to do, to make changes to the very Word of God. However, the Sopherim believed they were either: 1.) making necessary corrections to errors that had crept into their copies, 2.) were clarifying the actual intent of the Scriptures, or 3.) (in the case of the Tetragrammaton, YHVH) were showing extreme reverence for the sacred name of God. In any case, they felt they were handling the Scriptures in a way that would be approved by God.
While one may condemn what the Sopherim did, in making alterations to the Scriptures, one must also praise them for keeping accurate records of their changes. This enables us to ‘look over their shoulder’ as it were, and see exactly what changes they made...
https://www.oocities.org/hebrew_roots/h ... -1-02.html (underline & bold mine)

That is how it began, culminating in the complete removal of God's name, YHWH, in the Greek translation (LXX) of the Hebrew text.

The stone and alloy in Zerubbabel's hand are the seven eyes of Jehovah that are roving about in all the earth , (Zec 4:10), to cut out the two ears of grain/witnesses that will come to be the stone that strikes Nebuchadnezzar's dream image ...for as much as you beheld a stone was cut not by hands and that it crushed the iron the copper/bronze and the molded clay, the silver and the gold. The powerful one has made known what will occur in the final part of the days. And the dream is reliable, and the interpretation is trustworthy... (Dan 2:45)
LRW~

Bobcat
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Re: Revelation

#364 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

Hi CI,

I see a subtle assumption that you are making in the quote below (the assumption is in the bolded/underlined part):
Daniel interprets Nebuchadnezzar's dream of this image of successive kingdoms, starting with Nebuchadnezzar, as the head of gold and ending with toes made of iron and malleable clay, saying concerning the toes: And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom . . .

You are linking 'God's setting up a kingdom' with "the toes." See this post for what I mean by that. (See also the other links in this post.)

For the reader, this post discusses when Jesus became king. Logically, the "setting up" of God's Kingdom should correspond closely with when Jesus becomes a king. It wouldn't make sense for Jesus to be a king in a kingdom that had not yet been 'set up.' (Col 1:13)


Bobcat

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#365 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Bobcat wrote:
1 month ago
Hi CI,

I see a subtle assumption that you are making in the quote below (the assumption is in the bolded/underlined part):
Daniel interprets Nebuchadnezzar's dream of this image of successive kingdoms, starting with Nebuchadnezzar, as the head of gold and ending with toes made of iron and malleable clay, saying concerning the toes: And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom . . .

You are linking 'God's setting up a kingdom' with "the toes." See this post for what I mean by that. (See also the other links in this post.)

For the reader, this post discusses when Jesus became king. Logically, the "setting up" of God's Kingdom should correspond closely with when Jesus becomes a king. It wouldn't make sense for Jesus to be a king in a kingdom that had not yet been 'set up.' (Col 1:13)

Bobcat
Hello Bobcat,

You assume that I assumed. I am not making any assumptions, subtle or otherwise. All I did was short-circuit the description as my focus was on verse 45. But to clear the waters, here is the expanded version. Concerning the image, its head was of gold, its breasts and its arms of silver, its belly and thighs of copper/bronze, its legs were of iron, its feet were partly of iron and partly of moulded clay... You yourself, [Nebuchadnezzar], are the head of gold and after you, there will arise another kingdom inferior to you, and another kingdom, a third one, of copper/bronze that will rule over the whole earth... whereas you beheld the feet and the toes to be partly of moulded clay of a potter and partly of iron, the kingdom itself will be divided but somewhat of the hardness of iron will prove to be in it...
And as for the toes
, [fem. plural], the kingdom will prove to be partly strong and will partly prove to be fragile. Whereas you beheld iron is mixed with moist clay, they will come to be mixed with the offspring/seed of man, [singular], (Dan 2:32,33,38,39,41,42,43). Who are the ‘they’ referred to here?

The only assumption I am making, if any, is that these metals, starting with the head of gold, Nebuchadnezzar, (Dan 2:38), proceed in order, each being inferior in quality and strength to the next, ending with democracies, (Dan 2:39,43)... i.e. Babylon, (gold); Medo/Persian, (silver); Greece, (copper/bronze); Rome, (iron) with the feet and toes, mixed with moist clay being democracies ...And in the days of those kings, [plural, kings/toes, of democratic governments], the God of heaven itself will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will rule to times indefinite, (Dan 2:44).

In post 363 above I pointed out that in the next verse, Dan 2:45, this order is not only reversed starting from the bottom of the image, but the clay, the offspring of mankind, (Dan 2:43), is placed between copper/bronze and silver ... Forasmuch as you beheld that out of a mountain a stone was cut not by hands, and that it broke to pieces, [starting from the bottom of the image], the iron, the copper/bronze, the moulded clay, the silver and the gold , (Dan 2:45). This indicates that this mixing of clay, the offspring of mankind, with the hardness of the metallic rulerships began in the latter part of the Medo/Persian empire. At that time the influence of Greek philosophy had already made inroads and religious philosophy began to be an integral part of the triad of the ruling entities.

Image

Nearly 2,400 years ago, the Greek philosophers Plato and Aristotle explored political philosophy. Aristotle concluded that “it is evident that the form of government is best in which every man, whoever he is, can act best and live happily.” ...
Both Plato and Aristotle lived in the democratic Greek city-state of Athens. In Athenian democracy, all male citizens directly participated in making laws and deciding jury trials. Yearly elections decided who would fill important government positions. Citizens drew lots to see who would staff the remaining posts... Plato was a student of Socrates
...
Image
Plato’s ideal and just state is an aristocracy, the rule of the best. He believed leaders needed to be wise and trained in how to run a state, just as captains of ships are trained in how to run a ship. BRIA 26 1 Plato and Aristotle on Tyranny and the Rule of Law
...Sparta (Doric Greek: Σπάρτα, Spártā; Attic Greek...Around 650 BCE, it rose to become the dominant military land-power in ancient Greece....Given its military pre-eminence, Sparta was recognized as the leading force of the unified Greek military during the Greco-Persian Wars Sparta
...Laconophilia is love or admiration of Sparta and of the Spartan culture or constitution...Laconophiles nevertheless remained among the philosophers. Some of the young men who followed Socrates had been Laconophiles. Socrates himself is portrayed as praising the laws of Sparta and Crete.[5] Critias, a companion of Socrates, helped bring about the oligarchic rule of the Thirty Tyrants, who were supported by Sparta... Plato also, in his writings, seems to prefer a Spartan-type regime over a democratic one, (underline mine).Laconophilia is love or admiration of Sparta and of the Spartan culture or constitution

From the above one can see how the seed of man, the clay, the Spartan way, ( Dan 2:34), impacted rule, diluting the power of rulers. By the first century, the clay's influence and power was the accepted norm. That is why the priests saw Jesus as a political threat, saying: ... "if we leave him alone this way, they will all put faith in him and the Romans will come to take away both our place and our nations, (Jhn 11:48).

Although religion has always been part of the Jewish system of rule, with the priest administering God’s Law and all including the king subservient to it. The tables were turned with the priesthood becoming a servant of the king as described at Dan 8:9-12. This subservient Jewish religious apostasy will reach its pinnacle when the two witnesses are killed by the beast that rises out of the abyss, (Dan 8:24,25, 26; Dan 12:7; Rev 11:7). At that time the stone that Jehovah cut out of the mountain standing before Zerubbabel/the seed of Babel, will strike the image and pulverise it, (Zec 4:6,7; Dan 2:34,35,44; Rev 11:11,12,13)
LRW~

Bobcat
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Re: Revelation

#366 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

CI,

I think you are missing my point.


Bobcat

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#367 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Bobcat wrote:
1 month ago
CI,

I think you are missing my point.


Bobcat
Ditto Bobcat, we both are missing the point.



Each one sees and interprets the world from their perspective. For instance, if C.T. Russell had lived today, would he believe and do what he did then? I doubt it. At this point, I am, as foretold (Mt 13: 44-49,52), clearing out all my outdated treasure of knowledge and am replacing it with what I understand now. Paul said when that which is complete arrives that which is partial, [knowledge], will be discarded...(1Cor 13:10). What is this complete knowledge? At Rev10:4-10 John is told ... Seal up the thing the seven thunders spoke... There will be no delay any longer, but in the days of sounding of the seventh trumpet...when he is about to blow his trumpet the sacred secret of God according to the good news which he, [Jesus], declared to his own slaves [and] the prophets, is complete. So it is the complete knowledge or understanding of that which was foretold for our day; if our day is that day. As Amos pointed out in a recent post, God has predestined what will occur concerning his overall purpose, but not the details of how or whom he will use to accomplish that purpose.

If we were still alive fifty years from now, would we still be debating these same points? Of course not. But we are short-lived and, if we are not fearful, we will continue to learn until the day we die. Each day brings new things to light about ourselves, others, and the world.

But Paul said that Satan would mislead many with powerful works and signs. Jesus also warns that this would happen before the son of man returns, (Mt 24:23-28,30; 2Thess 2:7-12). As Paul indicated a love of truth is required so as not to be misled.

In the above video when Oblio is cast out of his community because he was pointless, he didn't hang around day after day, flogging a :deadhorse: , but faced his fear and went on a mission to find the point.
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#368 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Revelation
Prelude to the Thousand Year Reign

The Two Witnesses continued, part 3.

Peter, addressing disciples of Jesus had said ...Beloved ones, do not be puzzled at the burning among you, which is happening for a trial, [3986 from 3985 to tempt, as at Mt 4:1; 6:3], as though a strange thing were befalling you. On the contrary, go on rejoicing, for as much as you are sharers in the sufferings of the Christ, (1Pet 4:12). Saying this he, no doubt, recalled the incident when Jesus had called him satan, (Mt 16:23). At that time, without realizing it, he had tempted Jesus the same as the devil had in the wilderness, (Mt 4:1-10). (For more on this see post 22, here

What Peter said above concerned the gift of the Spirit each of them had received, (1Pet 4:10). Each had been given a portion of God's spirit that manifested itself in different ways, (1Cor 12:4,5), which they were to use to feed the master’s sheep. Peter no doubt recalled the time when he had been jealous of 'the one Jesus loved,' and Jesus had three times admonished him to feed and care for his flock and keep following him (Jhn 21:15-19). Paul’s commission was similar, but his primary task was to preach to kings, and bring the intelligentsia and people of the nation on board, (Acts 9:15). So they had different areas of expertise, and differed in how they carried out their mission, even as Peter acknowledged, (2Pet 3:15,16)

Jesus had earlier described it this way: “For it is just as when a man, about to travel abroad, summons his slaves and commits his belongings/possessions to them. And to one he gives five talents, to another two, and still another one, to each according to their ability ... (Mt 25:14,15). These talents represent the master’s belongings.

What are God’s belongings?

Adam and Eve were created to care for the earth and have all living things in subjection, (Gen 1:26). Adam in his account says that God had put him in the garden of Eden to cultivate and care for it. The first thing that God taught him was animal husbandry (Gen 2:15,19). When they chose the path of self-determination and prematurely left the garden, God told Adam the ground would grow thorns and thistles for him. Although Adam was knowledgeable in animal husbandry, he knew nothing about cultivation. This was the source of strive in their household. Cain had mastered the art of cultivating the ground, and Able the youngest had been taught by his father how to care for the flock. Can you see how this would cause problems? Cain was jealous of Able, and Cain's ability to grow crops would have undermined his father’s self-esteem. These kinds of problems have riven families, tribes, and nations apart ever since.

So the belongings, the talents, the master entrusts to his slaves according to their ability consist of the multifarious tasks needed to care for the master’s household, [post 361]. He allots different responsibilities to each of his slaves. In the first century, the paramount task was to feed the sheep, i.e. to promulgate God’s words. And Paul’s purpose was to ensure that the oral teaching of God’s words as taught by Jesus survived. But just as with that first human family, dissension caused rifts and strain amongst the disciples. Jesus had known that the serpent's seed (Mt 13:39; Gen 3:15) would exploit this rift in God’s household, as he had always done. He had warned his disciples that night would close in again after he had left, saying ...Now this is the basis for judgment, that light has come into the world but men have loved the darkness rather than the light... (John 3:19). Why is that? Why did Cain not listen to God who told him if he conquered his fit of jealous rage there would be exaltation in heaven. Because blaming others is easier and more satisfying to one's self-esteem than mastering oneself. The serpent knows this and exploits it.

The slave to whom the master entrusts his belongings, not only has to care for that which is entrusted to him, but also has to increase their value... After a long time the master of those slaves returns and settles accounts with them, and each one that had doubled the value of what he had been given he rewards, (Mt 25: 19-23). But the one to whom he had given one talent said ‘Master, I know you are a hard man, reaping where you do not sow and gathering where you do not scatter. So becoming afraid, having gone away I hid your talent in the ground. Here have what is yours, (Mt 25:24,25).

Wow, he had been prudent and hadn't touched what the master had entrusted to him, surely the master would be impressed.

He wasn’t, and called him a wicked sluggish slave, saying: You had known, had you, that I reap where I do not sow. and gather where I do not scatter. Well, then, you ought to have deposited my silver with the bankers, and having come, I would receive what is mine with interest. "'Therefore take away the talent from him and give it to the one that has ten talents. For everyone that has, [knowledge and experience gained from working his portion of the master’s belongings], more will be given him and he will have it in abundance. But to him that does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him. Throw the good-for-nothing slave into the darkness outside. There is where [his] weeping and his gnashing of the teeth will be, (Mt 25: 24-30).

That is what is expected of those who will be called brothers of the son of man, (Mt 25:31, 40, 45).

When the master returned, the field he originally cultivated and sowed with wheat, was overgrown with weeds (Mt 13:24,25,30, 38 39). And he tells his harvesters, the angels, to first collect out from his kingdom all the things that cause stumbling and persons doing lawlessness. ... At that time the righteous ones, [see, post 359, the ears of wheat, Zec 4:11,12, the two witnesses will shine as brightly as the sun, (Mt 13:41-43).

During the night the field of Gods household came to be infested with weeds, who like Balaam exploited their position for personal gain. Concerning Pergamon, the son of man who has the two-edged sword says: I know that where you are dwelling the throne of Satan is (Rev 1:13; 2:12,13). And then commends them, that despite this, they keep holding fast to his name, Yeshua/Jesus. But what he holds against them is that they hold fast to the teaching of Balaam, see post 18, here and post 22, here.

This congregation of invited ones is one that bases its faith on what is written in the O.T. and the sayings of Jesus/Yehoshua. Besides the teaching of Balaam, they also have those holding fast to the teaching of the sect of Nicolaus. It is amongst these that the two witnesses, the grains of the two ears of wheat, do their work. Concentrating their efforts on the slaves that serve at the altar, the ones whom the master/Jesus had commissioned to care for his belongings. Each of the grains of the two ears of wheat, the two witnesses, use the skills they acquired whilst working their portion of the master's belongings, to do this special work for the short period prior to the blowing of the seventh trumpet.

Jesus had told them ...He that exercises faith in me, [hears and heeds what the master had told them], that one will also do the work I do; and he will do greater works than these... (Jhn 14:12). These are the greater works the two witnesses do. And he adds ... Also whatever it is that you ask in my name, [not Christ or Lord, but Jesus/Yehoshua] I will do this... (Jhn 14:14). This work requires one to be courageous and forthright, knowing that what one says will not be welcomed amongst those that buried their talent in the ground for safe-keeping.
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#369 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Revelation
Prelude to the Thousand Year Reign

The Two Witnesses continued, part 4

In post 368 above, I discussed what was required of those who would be designated brothers of the son of man (Mt 25:31, 40,45). And said concerning the belongings/talents the master entrusted to his slaves (Mt 25:14-30) that the
belongings, the talents, the master entrusts to his slaves according to their ability consist of the multifarious tasks needed to care for the master’s household,[post 361]. He allots different responsibilities to each of his slaves.
In the beginning, the master entrusted the earth to Adam and Eve, (Gen 1:26). The earth was also referred to as a field. Adam writes: 'This is the history of the heavens and the earth when they were being created, in the day Jehovah God made the earth and the heavens. Now there came to be yet, no bush of the field nor any plant of the field had sprung up, (Gen 2:4,5).

And it is this 'God of the field' that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob worshipped. When God gave Moses his name he said; I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God [of the] field but as respects my name, Jehovah I did not make myself known to him, (Ex 6:3).
Bibles have replaced 'God of the field' with God Almighty in 382 A.D. Image
when Pope Damasus I, commissioned the Latin Vulgate translation of the Bible. To see the verse in the Latin Vulgate interlinear, go to post 68, here. By doing this the church not only changed the words Jehovah had uttered and replaced them with their own concept of Jehovah God but also altered the meaning of prophecies that concern God’s field, the master’s belongings that he had entrusted to his slaves, (Mt 25:14). All those reading the OT writings before the Greek translation became popular would have read, שָׂדָֽי śā·ḏāy, the word as used at Ex 6:3 of the Hebrew manuscript. One can find a list of the verses where saday is used here. Each of these verses is part of an inspired utterance or a prophecy that deals with God’s field under cultivation.

In the illustration of the wheat and the weeds Jesus referred to this field, (Mt 13: 24-30). When his disciples asked for an explanation he said. The sower of the fine seed is the son of man, the field is the world as for the fine seed these are the sons of the kingdom, [see post 359, here], but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one, and the enemy that sowed them is the Devil... Therefore, just as the weeds are collected together and burned in the fire so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things, (Mt 13: 36,37, 38, 40 39).

Here are some excerpts from Jeremiah chapter 4, one of its verses is listed in the saday link above. It refers to Jehovah’s field under cultivation that has become overgrown with weeds in the time of the end.

Jehovah says: ..."If you return, O Israel ...you return to me. And if you will turn aside from your disgusting thing, [cf. Mt 24:15], from in front of me then you will not go as a fugitive, [as at Gen 4:12]. And if you will certainly swear, 'As Jehovah is alive in truth in justice and in righteousness, then in him nations will certainly bless themselves, and in him they will certainly glory/shine...(Jer 4:1,2)
... "Gather yourselves together [you men] and say, 'assemble yourselves and let us go into fortified cities', (Jer 4:5). Jesus advised the opposite, (cf. Mt 24:15,16).

Raise a signal toward Zion, [cf. Isa 5:26;11:10]. Seek refuge. Do not stand still." For there is a calamity that I am bringing from the north, even a great crash , [Jer 4:6]... "And it must occur in that day... that the heart of the king will perish, even the heart of the princes and priests will be driven to astonishment . And Jeremiah says to Jehovah, "Alas O Sovereign Lord Jehovah! Truly you have absolutely deceived the people and Jerusalem, saying, 'Peace itself will become yours. The sword has reached clear to the soul, (Jer 4:9,10).

Did Jehovah deceive them and tell them Peace itself will be yours? Or did he tell them what they wanted to hear, (as at 1Ki 22:20-22)?

This prophecy is addressed to Israel, Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem in the time of the end, (Jer 4:1,4). So it also concerns those who consider themselves part of the Israel of God (Gal 6:16; Rom 9: 6-13). And as Paul had said: Concerning the times and seasons, brothers, you need nothing to be written to you. For you, yourselves well know that Jehovah's day is coming exactly as a thief in the night. Whenever it is they are saying ‘Peace and security!’ Then sudden destruction will be instantly upon them,(1Thes 5:1,2,3).

Jehovah continues. At that time it will be said to this people, 'There is a strong searing wind from desolate heights toward the beaten paths through the wilderness toward the daughter of my people. It is not for winnowing or cleansing. A full wind from them will come to me. Now I shall speak forth judgments with them... “Wash your heart, O Jerusalem that you may be saved. How long will erroneous thoughts lodge within you... Make mention of it you people. Yes, to the nations. Proclaim it over Jerusalem. [That] watchers , [as at 2Ki 18:8], are coming from an earth far away and raise their voice concerning cities of Judah. Like keepers of the field, [saday, as at Ex 6:3], on account of her they are all around her, [Jerusalem fem. vs 16], because she has been rebellious is the utterance of Jehovah, (Jer 4:11-17).

My soul has heard the signal of war, crash upon crash is what has been called, for the whole earth has been despoiled, my own tents and tent cloths, [cf. Isa 54:1,2]. "How long shall I keep seeing the signal, [cf. Isa 5:26;11:10], and hearing the sound of the horn/trumpet? [as at [Rev 10:7;11:15]...For my people is foolish ... Wise they are for doing bad, but for doing good they actually have no knowledge. And I saw the earth, and look it was without form and void and the heavens had no light, (Jer 4:19-23)

These Watchers/keepers, (cf Dan 4:13,17), are coming from an earth far away, and they will raise their voice concerning the cities of Judah Like keepers of the field.

And all the tribes of the earth will beat themselves in lamentation, ( Mt 24:29,30; Lu 21:25,26).
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#370 Post by coccus ilicis » 4 weeks ago

Revelation
Prelude to the Thousand Year Reign

The Two Witnesses part 4
Continued pt.2

In post 369 above, I said:
When God gave Moses his name he said; I used to appear to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob as God [of the] field but as respects my name, Jehovah I did not make myself known to him, (Ex 6:3).
Bibles have replaced 'God of the field' with God Almighty
And then went on to say:
All those reading the OT writings before the Greek translation became popular would have read, שָׂדָֽי śā·ḏāy, the word as used at Ex 6:3 of the Hebrew manuscript. One can find a list of the verses where saday is used here. Each of these verses is part of an inspired utterance or a prophecy that deals with God’s field under cultivation
And then went on to examine one of these prophecies, where saday/field occurs, namely, (Jer 4:17).
These Watchers/keepers, (cf Dan 4:13,17), are coming from an earth far away, and they will raise their voice concerning the cities of Judah Like keepers of the field
This God of the field ,saday 7706, mistranslated almighty, is first mentioned at Gen 17:1, when he says to Abram... I [am] God [of the] field/saday, walk before me and come to be complete.

See excerpt of Gen 1:17 below, reading from right to left
Image

Note that, come to be complete is imperative, it is a peremptory command. Abram must come to be complete/perfect. Hmm, considering the third-century doctrine of original sin, this gives food for thought, does it not? So, what did he mean by telling him to become complete or perfect? Jehovah asked Job ...Do you know about the poisings of the cloud, the wonderful works of the one perfect/complete in knowledge, (Jb 37:16).

When the God of the field told Abram to walk before him and come to be complete/perfect, he was telling him he must come to understand his heavenly Father’s work, his business. And Abraham became complete when he attempted to offer up Isaac. At that time Jehovah said to him, “Do not put your hand out against the boy and do not do anything to him, for now, I do know you are God-fearing, in that you have not withheld your son your only one, from me,” (Gen 22:12). And Jesus said concerning him: “But I tell you many from eastern parts and western parts will come and recline at the table of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens; whereas the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where their weeping and the gnashing of their teeth shall be,” (Mt 8:11,12). And to any who would be called sons of God, he said: “You heard it said you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy. However, I say to you, continue to love your enemies and pray for those persecuting you that you may prove yourselves sons of your Father who is in the heavens, (Mt 5:43,44,45).

Like Abram, the grains of the two ears of wheat [see, post 359], the two witnesses, must walk before the God of the field, Jehovah, and do whatever he requires of them, “You must accordingly be perfect/complete, as your heavenly Father is perfect/complete,” (Mt 5:48).
“As soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces all these things will come to their finish ...Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at one thousand three hundred and thirty-five days!”, (Dan 12:7,12).

As Jesus had said ...many from eastern parts and western parts will come and recline at the table of Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens; whereas the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside, (Mt 8:11).

The one thousand two hundred and sixty days during which the two witnesses do their work in sackcloth, is a time of testing for all those who serve at the altar. A reed like a rod is given John and he is told to: ...Get up, [as at Mt 2:13, & LXX Dan 10:10], and measure the temple/naon/sanctuary], [ that part of the temple where God himself resides], and the altar and those worshipping in it, (Rev 11:1). This reed/kalamos like a rod for measuring, is a measuring rule of conduct, see Apostolic Polyglot Lexical Concordance: kanón, kan¢wn 2583 A rule/line of conduct; a boundary, a measuring rod. Mic 7:4; 2Co 10:13,15,16; Gal 6:16; Phil 3:16

Let us see how this measuring rod/rule of conduct is used in these verses ... Too bad for me, for I have become like the gathering of summer fruit. the gleaning of a grape gathering. There is no cluster to eat, no early fig that my soul would desire! The loyal one, [as at De 33:8], has perished from the earth and among mankind, [be'adam], the upright one there is no one. All of them for bloodshed lie in wait, they hunt everyone his own brother with a dragnet. Their hands are upon what is bad, to do it well; the prince is asking [for something] and the one who is judging does so for a reward, and the great one is speaking forth the craving of his soul, his very own, and they interweave it, (Mic 7:1-3). If you are in doubt that it is referring to this time period, just listen to the current news wherever you are.
Their best one is like a brier [their] most upright one is worse than a thorn hedge. The day of the watchmen, [of] your being given attention must come. Now will occur a confounding of them, Mic 7:4.

Although it is speaking about conduct, no rule of conduct is mentioned here. It is, however, mentioned in the Greek translation of this verse Mic 7:4 , which reads: by the rule/κανόνος of conduct in the day of the watch.

In his letter to the Corinthians Paul says ...But we will not boast into the things beyond measure, but according to the measure of the area, [rule of conduct], that God has assigned to us, a measure to reach also as far as you, (Berean Literal Bible, 2Cor 10:13). See also 2Cor 10: 15, 16, where Paul again uses the term, kanón, rule of conduct. And at Phil 3:15,16 he says: Let us, then, as many of us as are mature, be of the same mental attitude, and if you are mentally inclined otherwise in any respect, God will reveal the above attitude to you. At any rate, to the degree that we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule/κανόνος]/of conduct and let us be of the same mind, ( New KJV). This measuring clearly has to do with one's attitude.

So this measuring of the temple sanctuary where God himself resides is a measuring of the
rule of conduct [κανόν 2583[, of those serving at its altar. Some like Abram will make a determined effort to walk before the God of the field/saday/Jehovah as directed, to become complete/perfect, even as Abraham came to be. Others will fall by the wayside and join those who send gifts to one another when the two witnesses are killed (Rev 11:7, 8, 10). ...Happy is the one who is waiting and arrives at the one thousand three hundred and thirty five days, (Dan 12:12).
LRW~

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