Make a new plan Stan!

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Bruno
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Re: Make a new plan Stan!

#31 Post by Bruno » 3 years ago

AmosAu2 wrote: 3 years ago Bruno,

The following will be my last word on this subject, unless you are able to see the folly of your thinking. I quoted this before, but am quoting it again. : the soul that sinneth, it shall die. 
shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. 

You see, we only have this life to prove the type of person that we are. If we have lived a good life, being obedient to our Fathers commandments &/or have repented of a former course of disobedience & oppression of others, we will attain the life everlasting.
Conversely, if we have lived a life ignoring the commandments of God without repenting before death....we will not receive life at all, BUT WILL DIE! This is the general theme that runs right through the bible. I'd suggest you beg Father for the eyes of discernment before it's too late.


Amos.
Hi Amos,

I am willing to see the folly in my thinking.

For the sake of Stranger I thought I would try and stay on topic for once. It is proving far harder than expected :doh: As Stranger likes Billy, I suppose if I can spin things around Billy’s ideas maybe Stranger will forgive me?

Your reading of Ezekiel (as well as other scriptures) has led you and many other sincere Christians to understand God will judge people worthy of everlasting life or death based only on what they have done in this life. So when he resurrects the unrighteous it is only to pass judgment on them and then kill them again. I think this is actually what the majority of Christians believe today (except many believe in eternal suffering rather than a second death)

It basically comes down to God desiring to lead all people to repentance, but upon realizing he won’t succeed with a large portion of mankind, he is left with no other choice other than to kill them or torture them eternally.

Amos I want to try and approach this from a different angle. As God designed us and so knows exactly what makes us tick, what is it then about our makeup that presents such an insurmountable obstacle to him? Preventing him from eventually finding a way to lead everyone to repentance?

The example Daniel used is a good one. God led David to repentance by getting David to first condemn someone for doing something David thought he would never ever do himself in similar circumstances.

2 Samuel 12:5-6
5 David burned with anger against the man and said to Nathan, “As surely as the LORD lives, the man who did this must die! 6 He must pay for that lamb four times over, because he did such a thing and had no pity.”

God then demonstrated how David was actually the man he thought he would never become.
Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! 2 Samuel 12:7

God actually used this method a few times in scripture. Peter claiming he would never ever deny Jesus is another interesting one.

Amos I think you believe the folly in my thinking lies here. In believing God will succeed somehow with everyone just as he found a way to succeed with David.
I think if all of us realized that “we are the man” or could potentially have acted in a similar or some equivalent way to Adam, David, Peter or Thomas etc. given unlimited opportunity and time, then it would be far easier for us to understand things, and we may even become more forgiving as a result, as in essence we would just be forgiving a potential version of ourselves. If God had a way of permanently removing all potential for us to ever sin again then we may become more receptive to the idea 1 Corinthians 15:53-54

Ok now for the hard bit, I have to try and connect this with Billy :)
I, like Billy, am confident God can find a way to turn our hearts the right way up, If he succeeds? then watch and see what happens to the world :)

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Karl

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Bruno
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Re: Make a new plan Stan!

#32 Post by Bruno » 3 years ago

Bruno said
I think if all of us realized that “we are the man” or could potentially have acted in a similar or some equivalent way to Adam, David, Peter or Thomas etc. given unlimited opportunity and time, then it would be far easier for us to understand things, and we may even become more forgiving as a result, as in essence we would just be forgiving a potential version of ourselves. If God had a way of permanently removing all potential for us to ever sin again then we may become more receptive to the idea 1 Corinthians 15:53-54
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Karl

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Bruno
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Re: Make a new plan Stan!

#33 Post by Bruno » 3 years ago

AmosAu2 wrote: 3 years ago

It's very obvious that most people have very little understanding of the bible. It seems that you don't understand the basics of biblical faith & the relationship between man & God.

Amos, I think Billy understood the relationship between God and man.

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Karl

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Bruno
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Re: Make a new plan Stan!

#34 Post by Bruno » 3 years ago

AmosAu2 wrote: 3 years ago

It's very obvious that most people have very little understanding of the bible. It seems that you don't understand the basics of biblical faith & the relationship between man & God.

I don't think that many westerners have much understanding of the Hebrew mindset & more importantly our Heavenly Fathers intentions for mankind.

How many of our members here & in fact in any sector of christianity go beyond the doctrines & dogmas that they have been a part of. This includes the smorgasboard of theological seminaries. Don't get me wrong. Almost all of us have been led astray for close to 2000 years now. It actually began in the late first century. Many however are beginning to be led away from orthodox religion, all religion, by our Heavenly Father. As the word states; Seek and ye shall find."

Amos.
I have done some seeking and found the following. It's from a book I haven't read called An Outsider's Guide to the Gospel.

I think he has done what you have asked and gone beyond the doctrines and dogmas of orthodox religion and by doing so has understood the relationship between God and humans.

The bit in blue is interesting for JW's.

https://www.amazon.com/Outsiders-Guide- ... merReviews


When Jesus turned up to start his public ministry, he did things differently. He didn’t schmooze with the politically connected and wealthy, nor did he get cozy with the ruling religious class in the hope of gaining support and influence. He didn’t obsess over his own imagine in the hope of presenting himself as picture-perfect, with picture-perfect followers and admirers. Instead, he identified with those with no image in the eyes of the ruling class. He picked a bunch of teenagers and a few young men from the poorest, most mocked part of the country, and even threw in a tax collector, one of the many tax collectors who were despised by the whole nation.

He openly befriended women, even the most despised in the eyes of his own nation, Samaritan women, and prostitutes of ill repute. He drank alcohol liberally with those society looked down upon, much too liberally for the religious folks of the day, causing him to be branded a 'glutton and a drunkard'.

He publicly exalted the women who followed him, at times pointing out how they understood the truth about God while both the Pharisees and his own male disciples failed to grasp the reality of his ministry and the true character of God.

But he did more than just identify with those whom society so easily cast into its shadows. He came to stand up to all the religious bullies standing behind their pulpits and holy robes, obsessed with twisting the God of love into some kind of split-personality mental case.

He went on record, talking openly while making his claims, that God does not consider it acceptable behavior for anyone to harass, suppress and abuse people because they hold a position inside a religious institution or have some kind of religious title before their name.

He came to be a light for all who were living in the darkness of the abusive and manipulative tactics of those in powerful positions in religious institutions. To the everyday person, he offered: “Come walk with me, for my way is easy, and what I give you is light.” But to the religious leaders he declared: “And you self-appointed gurus in the Bible, woe to you, because while you load people down with burdens and responsibilities they can barely carry, you yourselves are not willing to lift a finger to help them!”

The only thing that got Jesus mad, from what we see in the account of his ministry, is thinking one can judge and condemn others and place a heavy burden upon them due to a belief that they are some kind of divine mediator for God on earth.

In the gospel accounts we see that Jesus' finger was not pointed at those with moral sins. The only time Jesus pointed his finger in judgment was when it was pointed at the religious, hardened in heart by their pious pride, who made it their self-appointed duty to look down upon, correct and condemn others.

In every way, Jesus went against the grain of the strongly established social, cultural and religious prejudices. And in doing so he broke this awful yoke off the neck of all who wanted to be set free from it. The yoke of the social, cultural and religious falsehood that measures people unjustly, that pushes people down, that keeps rank, that keeps count. That separates. That rejects. That oppresses. That disqualifies.

He consistently stood on the side of those society looked down upon, and lifted them up. Time and time again he showed those who were exalted in society―by wealth, title, sex, or nationality―that the very people they pitied were in fact greatly blessed. Yes, blessed, for while they may have been looked down upon by men, they were not looked down upon by God. Rather, they were as equal as everyone else in God's eyes.
Jesus showed us all by his life―and also by his death―that there are no outcasts or outsiders in God's eyes. There is no unclean. There is no lesser sex. There is no lesser color. There is no lesser race. There is no lesser human being.
Karl

Daniel12
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Re: Make a new plan Stan!

#35 Post by Daniel12 » 3 years ago

Hey Bruno

I have done some seeking and found the following. It's from a book I haven't read called An Outsider's Guide to the Gospel.

I think he has done what you have asked and gone beyond the doctrines and dogmas of orthodox religion and by doing so has understood the relationship between God and humans.

The bit in blue is interesting for JW's.

https://www.amazon.com/Outsiders-Guide- ... merReviews
I don't normally buy books dealing with religious themes anymore, but this books seems like something that I would find interesting because it deals with human behavior. One of the Chapters is titled; "Love and Hypocrisy"
That stirs my interest.

I'm sure Stranger would like reading this book :D

Billy Graham before he read this book

https://youtu.be/bamcnYLVeTg?t=41

Billy Graham AFTER he read this book;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTX9DctytUk

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Bruno
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Re: Make a new plan Stan!

#36 Post by Bruno » 3 years ago

Daniel12 wrote: 3 years ago

I don't normally buy books dealing with religious themes anymore, but this books seems like something that I would find interesting because it deals with human behavior. One of the Chapters is titled; "Love and Hypocrisy"
That stirs my interest.
Hi Daniel :D

Here is an interesting and enthusiastic article I found from the same author in the Huffpost.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/you-know ... _b_6138596

The author of the article has an interesting profession. Part of his Job is to help people become better storytellers. He also wrote a book called “Trust me I’m Human” :)

http://www.mickmooney.com/

The author made the following discovery
“We all want to engage with others; we seek out meaningful connection. It's an intuitive desire built into our human nature, but without sharing stories with each other we struggle to find that connection point. That's because we learn, we grow, we connect, and we find the courage to make bold decision through the stories we share and the stories we hear”.

Billy Graham had an ability to engage with millions of people. They connected with his message. They reckon over 210 million people in 185 countries got to hear him speak live and over 2 billion heard recordings. Over a million people in South Korea turned out to listen to him speak.

https://static.billygraham.org/sites/bi ... it_web.jpg

Generally speaking his message was always focused on God’s love for all humans. When you keep the all-inclusive love of Jesus at the heart of your message you can’t go too far wrong.

Of all of Billy Graham’s quotes that I’ve read, and I’ve read a lot :) this next one is my favorite

https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quotes ... 5-0550.jpg
Karl

simplyme
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Re: Make a new plan Stan!

#37 Post by simplyme » 3 years ago

Hey Bruno
If your still running for president, your beautiful rant in post 34 got my vote :clap:
I’ll even be your campaign manager. Tell me again, what are you going to be president over? I had better know what I’m getting into. I kinda have a bad history with that :doh:

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Bruno
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Re: Make a new plan Stan!

#38 Post by Bruno » 3 years ago

simplyme wrote: 3 years ago Hey Bruno
If your still running for president, your beautiful rant in post 34 got my vote :clap:
I’ll even be your campaign manager. Tell me again, what are you going to be president over? I had better know what I’m getting into. I kinda have a bad history with that :doh:
Hi Simplyme :)

You have a good memory! I may need a speech writer rather than a campagne manager. At the moment all I’m president over is copying and pasting other people’s words.
I’m campaigning for a God who is love, as “A heart full of love reaches into places that a head full of doctrines never will.” Better a heart full of love than a heart full of theology, for one's theology may be wrong, but love is always right." Mick Mooney.

I’m not going to get you into anything! but rather I will try and get you out of something. Out of the boat and onto the water :)

“First we must dream. Then we must believe. Then we must act in line with both the dream and the belief. Then... we must choose courage in the face of the unknown, for every dream does not transform into a reality without an act of walking on water.
It's easy to stay in the boat. But if you want a magical kind of life, you're going to have to risk sinking. And it is a risk, but it's is also a statement of faith.
Every man and woman who has ever dared to give to themselves and the world something larger and more valuable than what fit in their comfort zone, had to first find the faith to attempt a miracle.

All things are impossible . . . until someone does it.

Life is short. Step out. Believe every impossible step of the way. And when you do it, spend the rest of your days in amazement that you proved the words of Jesus true to yourself; that all things are possible for those who believe.
You have so much to give.
Go on. Walk on water.” Mick Mooney
Karl

Stranger
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Re: Make a new plan Stan!

#39 Post by Stranger » 3 years ago

Bruno wrote,
Life is short. Step out. Believe every impossible step of the way. And when you do it, spend the rest of your days in amazement that you proved the words of Jesus true to yourself; that all things are possible for those who believe.
You have so much to give.
Go on. Walk on water.”
You won't find this in the NWT (Jn 5:4 KJV)!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT30jj_L1Dc

Top of the Day to all.

Stranger, up high on Lookout Mountain!

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Bruno
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Re: Make a new plan Stan!

#40 Post by Bruno » 3 years ago

Stranger wrote: 3 years ago
You won't find this in the NWT (Jn 5:4 KJV)!

www.youtube.com/watch?v=TT30jj_L1Dc

Top of the Day to all.

Stranger, up high on Lookout Mountain!
:D :D :D
Karl

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