Make a new plan Stan!

[Bruno]

Billy got a lotta things wrong!

Hi Amos

One day we will all find out who got what bits right and what bits wrong. In the mean time...



Jesus suffered for us "all". That's the truth. 1 Timothy 4:10; Hebrews 2:10 ; Romans 5:3-4




I think Billy got some of the more important things right, like this next one.



Losing a Character like Stranger from the forum is as close as you get to losing everything! Characters are needed to help build character in others.
You're a bit of a character yourself Amos

[AmosAu2]

Hi Bruno,

I quite agree about losing Stranger, I'll certainly miss him. I have a lot of respect for Stranger.

Billy is another story though. I know plenty about Billy that perhaps you don't know.
I won't share in public what I know, as I don't want to offend those who respect him.

Regards, Amos.

[Bruno]

Hi Bruno,

I quite agree about losing Stranger, I'll certainly miss him. I have a lot of respect for Stranger.

Billy is another story though. I know plenty about Billy that perhaps you don't know.
I won't share in public what I know, as I don't want to offend those who respect him.

Regards, Amos.

I think Billy may end up being part of the same story as the rest of us.

Romans 3:23 (NIV)
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

[AmosAu2]

Hi Bruno,

I quite agree about losing Stranger, I'll certainly miss him. I have a lot of respect for Stranger.

Billy is another story though. I know plenty about Billy that perhaps you don't know.
I won't share in public what I know, as I don't want to offend those who respect him.

Regards, Amos.

I think Billy may end up being part of the same story as the rest of us.

Romans 3:23 (NIV)
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Whatever you think's a fair thing Bruno. I'm NOT going down the broken record again. Some of us don't bother to read the Word as it's written.

BTW, I'm not judging Billy, I don't need to as history has already been written, & can't be undone.

[Bruno]

Hi Bruno,

I quite agree about losing Stranger, I'll certainly miss him. I have a lot of respect for Stranger.

Billy is another story though. I know plenty about Billy that perhaps you don't know.
I won't share in public what I know, as I don't want to offend those who respect him.

Regards, Amos.

I think Billy may end up being part of the same story as the rest of us.

Romans 3:23 (NIV)
for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Whatever you think's a fair thing Bruno. I'm NOT going down the broken record again. Some of us don't bother to read the Word as it's written.

BTW, I'm not judging Billy, I don't need to as history has already been written, & can't be undone.

Amos I'm betting on Jesus undoing what you've just said


John 3:17
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him.

1 John 3:8 He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God appeared, that he might undo the works of the devil.


Whatever satan could accomplish Jesus could surpass. Jesus wasn't afraid to think bigger than satan. Amos I'm going to think big enough for both of us.

Death in Adam, Life in Christ
…19For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous. 20The Law was given so that the trespass would increase; but where sin increased, grace increased all the more, 21so that, just as sin reigned in death, so also grace might reign through righteousness, to bring eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.…



What do Jesus, John Wayne and Stranger all have in common?

[Bruno]

Remember what happened long ago, for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like Me. I distinguish the end from the beginning, and ancient times from what is still to come, saying: ‘My purpose will be established, and I will accomplish all My good pleasure.’ I summon a bird of prey from the east, a man for My purpose from a far-off land. Truly I have spoken, truly I will bring it to pass. I have planned it, I will surely do it.…Isaiah 46:9-11; 1 Corinthians 15:28

Amos, God created us in his image. Have a look at what humans made in his image can accomplish if they have faith enough to step out into the void and walk, Matthew 14:25-29

Genesis 1:27
So God created mankind in his own image, in the image of God he created them; male and female he created them.

[AmosAu2]

Bruno,

The following will be my last word on this subject, unless you are able to see the folly of your thinking. I quoted this before, but am quoting it again. Much earlier you posted Ezekiel chapter 18, well here's the part that I quoted & you have deliberately ignored. Please note the emphasized parts that very clearly show what happens to deliberate unrepentant sinners. They die! No future! There are of course many other scriptures that very clearly & definitely show the same eventuality.

Eze 18:1 The word of the LORD came unto me again, saying, 2 What mean ye, that ye use this proverb concerning the land of Israel, saying, The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge? 3 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, ye shall not have occasion any more to use this proverb in Israel. 
Eze 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die. 
Eze 18:5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right, 6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman, 7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment; 8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man, 9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord GOD. 

God then made the following statement to Ezekiel;
Eze 18:10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things, 11 And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife, 12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination, 13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him. 

You see, we only have this life to prove the type of person that we are. If we have lived a good life, being obedient to our Fathers commandments &/or have repented of a former course of disobedience & oppression of others, we will attain the life everlasting.
Conversely, if we have lived a life ignoring the commandments of God without repenting before death....we will not receive life at all, BUT WILL DIE! This is the general theme that runs right through the bible. I'd suggest you beg Father for the eyes of discernment before it's too late.

Bruno, we have ALL been fed lies from ALL forms of religion. Before it's too late, we must begin to do our own study & research into the true meaning of the scriptures. God the Father, is a reader of hearts, ALL hearts. This is why we must repent of any of our sins/weaknesses, beg forgiveness & return to the "old paths". This can only be done by a truly heartfelt & Prayerful study into the bible, without our former biases, paradigms. We won't make it if we don't do this. You can find that in the bible also, rather than wasting time looking at regurgitated trash in some videos online. That's not saying all videos are trash, but the devil is in control of the vast majority, so it's better to read the word for ourselves.

Amos.

[Daniel12]

AmosAu2 said;Please note the emphasized parts that very clearly show what happens to deliberate unrepentant sinners. They die! No future! There are of course many other scriptures that very clearly & definitely show the same eventuality.

Ok I disagree on the way you are interpreting these scriptures in Ezekiel. Let me prove it.

You have King David as a good example that your interpretation is way off. Now King David doesn’t have the internet to look at porn, but he does something even better.

(2 Samuel 11:2-5) . . .And it came about at the time of evening that David proceeded to rise from his bed and walk about on the rooftop of the king’s house; and from the rooftop he caught sight of a woman bathing herself, and the woman was very good in appearance. 3 Then David sent and inquired about the woman and someone said: “Is this not Bath-she′ba the daughter of E·li′am the wife of U·ri′ah the Hit′tite?”

Here David already has a bunch of wives, (By the way, isn’t that considered FORNICATION)
And he sees another woman taking a bath naked. So he scurries to his friends and asks;

Hey, who is that hottie over there—yum-yum!!

Now they quickly tell David; HELLO----SHE’S MARRIED!!)


In fact they tell David that she’s married to someone that he knows because they REMIND HIM----SHE IS THE WIFE OF URIAH!

Ok this is the red flag for David to repent and turn around. But is that what David does? He has a bunch of wives, his friends tells him that Bathsheba is Married, and they tell him that she is married to one of his friends. That’s enough to scare the heck of most men.

But do all those things make David repent? Let’s find out.

2 Samuel 11:4 After that David sent messengers that he might take her. So she came in to him and he lay down with her, while she was sanctifying herself from her uncleanness. Later she returned to her house.

What happened? This is not something that happens in the heat of the moment like when two single young kids are kissing and it leads to something else.

This was calculated, well planned, devious, hurtful to the husband, unconcerned about what his friends or family or the people who he rule over might think. THIS WAS UNREPENTED BEHAVIOR THAT DESERVED DEATH. But most of all, David didn't give a hoot about what God thought and how it would affect the God of love and justice

Just like you quoted;

The following will be my last word on this subject, unless you are able to see the folly of your thinking. I quoted this before, but am quoting it again. Much earlier you posted Ezekiel chapter 18, well here's the part that I quoted & you have deliberately ignored. Please note the emphasized parts that very clearly show what happens to deliberate unrepentant sinners. They die! No future! There are of course many other scriptures that very clearly & definitely show the same eventuality.

Ok this is enough to blow your interpretation of Ezekiel that you interpret as; what happens to deliberate unrepentant sinners. They die! No future!

Oh but it doesn’t end there. The unrepeated David goes even further. In fact even today, the most wicked vile men alive wouldn’t even go this far because it’s just gross.

2 Samuel 11: 5 And the woman became pregnant. Consequently she sent and told David and said: “I am pregnant.”

O-my goodness; how stupid could this man be?

http://www.quickmeme.com/img/25/25e32ed ... f340fb.jpg

Ok, so it’s time for David to man up and get stoned for his sin. Because like you said, Ezekiel makes it very plain that unrepented sinners will DIE and up to this POINT in time, David was UNREPENTED!

Like you said;

God then made the following statement to Ezekiel;
Eze 18:10 If he beget a son that is a robber, a shedder of blood, and that doeth the like to any one of these things, 11 And that doeth not any of those duties, but even hath eaten upon the mountains, and defiled his neighbour's wife, 12 Hath oppressed the poor and needy, hath spoiled by violence, hath not restored the pledge, and hath lifted up his eyes to the idols, hath committed abomination, 13 Hath given forth upon usury, and hath taken increase: shall he then live? he shall not live: he hath done all these abominations; he shall surely die; his blood shall be upon him.

You also said

Quote; we must begin to do our own study & research into the true meaning of the scriptures.
And the meaning of these scriptures tell us;

Leviticus 20:10 "'If a man commits adultery with another man's wife--with the wife of his neighbor--both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.


So if God would have kept his word according to Ezekiel, he would have put David to death RIGHT NOW and you know what would have happened.

Urijah who was an innocent, righteousness, man that obeyed God’s commands would have lived.

And isn’t that what you have said, that if you obey God’s commands you live but if you disobey you die.

But you’re proved wrong in your reasoning by this example.

But that doesn’t end there does it.

Unrepented David goes further;

(2 Samuel 11:6) . . .At this David sent to Jo′ab, saying: “Send to me U·ri′ah the Hit′tite.” . . .
David said to U·ri′ah: “Go down to your house and bathe your feet.” Accordingly U·ri′ah went out from the king’s house, and the king’s courtesy gift went out following him. 9 However, U·ri′ah lay down at the entrance of the king’s house with all the other servants of his lord, and he did not go down to his own house.
Further, David called him that he might eat before him and drink. So he got him drunk. Nevertheless, he went out in the evening to lie down on his bed with the servants of his lord, and to his own house he did not go down. 14 And it came about in the morning that David proceeded to write a letter to Jo′ab and send it by the hand of U·ri′ah. 15 So he wrote in the letter, saying: “PUT U·ri′ah in front of the heaviest battle charges, and YOU men must retreat from behind him, and he must be struck down and die.

So Unrepented David went further with his wickedness and MURDERED THIS INNOCENT MAN TO STEAL HIS WIFE
.
Explain Ezekiel 18 with this example???

But that’s not all, almost a year goes by and David does not repent. It is only when he has a child and it is revealed what he has done that he has no choice but to confess.

But he DIDN’T REPENT WILLING did he?

God forced repentance from David—why would he do any less to wicked people today who die?

By the way Ezekiel 18 is not talking about everlasting life is it?

This is the thing you don’t see Amos. You can’t see how God’s judgments work. You still see things like the WT, very black and white.

(Romans 11:33) . . .O the depth of God’s riches and wisdom and knowledge! How unsearchable his judgments [are] and past tracing out his ways [are. . .

You see, the bible says that EVERY KNEE WILL BEND DOWN AND WORSHIP GOD

(Isaiah 45:23, 24) . . .By my own self I have sworn—out of my own mouth in righteousness the word has gone forth, so that it will not return—that to me every knee will bend down, every tongue will swear, 24 saying, ‘Surely in Jehovah there are full righteousness and strength. . .

But how will that be true if God kills the majority of the people who have done LESS wicked things than DAVID.

[AmosAu2]

Hi Daniel,

I'm sorry but I only read the first few sentences of your post.

It's very obvious that most people have very little understanding of the bible. It seems that you don't understand the basics of biblical faith & the relationship between man & God.

I don't think that many westerners have much understanding of the Hebrew mindset & more importantly our Heavenly Fathers intentions for mankind.

How many of our members here & in fact in any sector of christianity go beyond the doctrines & dogmas that they have been a part of. This includes the smorgasboard of theological seminaries. Don't get me wrong. Almost all of us have been led astray for close to 2000 years now. It actually began in the late first century. Many however are beginning to be led away from orthodox religion, all religion, by our Heavenly Father. As the word states; Seek and ye shall find."

Amos.

[Bobcat]

For the sake of others who are reading this thread, I would like to point out in regards to David, that he DID die for his sins, including his sin with Bathsheba and against Urijah. (Rom 5:12) And he will, eventually, have to face up to the full implications of his sin (which includes how his sin affected his own personality). (Heb 9:27) How it goes from there remains to be seen. There has been made a provision to cover over his sin and heal him, if he so desires at that time. (Heb 9:28; I probably should add that David was assessed by the anonymous writer of Hebrews not just on those sins alone, so that there is a lot of good that can be said about him. I did not mean to be too dire in his case. ─ Heb 11:32.)

David did not die the way the Mosaic Law prescribed for his sins. But he did die. I'm not sure how far into his reign the sin with Bathsheba and Urijah occurred. So, assuming (simply because I don't know) mid-way thru a 40 year reign, he may have lived another 20 years after the sin. And he did suffer many consequences for his sin. For example, it could be that Absalom's revolt was related to this sin in the sense that Absolom may have picked up an attitude due to David's disregard for God's Law.

The sin with Bathsheba may also be part of the reason Ahithophel turned traitor to David. (See Constable's Notes on 2Sa 11 here for the possible connection.)

So there may have been times after the sin that David had wished God would have simply killed him right away. (2Sa 18:33; Consider also Adam and Eve's (and Satan's) sin in which they also did not die right away. It suited God to allow them to keep living for a time. (Rom 9:14-18) But, eventually . . .

Bobcat