Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

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Marina
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#21 Post by Marina » 4 years ago

Hi Deborah following on from your point, here's a useful scripture.

Young's Literal Translation

(1 Thess 4:15, 16) for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living -- who do remain over to the presence of the Lord -- may not precede those asleep, because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger , and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,

Chief-messenger = Archangel

ἀρχάγγελος archángelos, ar-khang'-el-os; from G757 and G32; a chief angel:—archangel.
Marina

DeborahsTree
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#22 Post by DeborahsTree » 4 years ago

Marina wrote: 4 years ago Hi Deborah following on from your point, here's a useful scripture.

Young's Literal Translation

(1 Thess 4:15, 16) for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living -- who do remain over to the presence of the Lord -- may not precede those asleep, because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger , and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,

Chief-messenger = Archangel

ἀρχάγγελος archángelos, ar-khang'-el-os; from G757 and G32; a chief angel:—archangel.

Yes. The Chief Angel is the Archangel the Archangel is Michael.

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theMadJW
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#23 Post by theMadJW » 4 years ago

DeborahsTree wrote: 4 years ago
Marina wrote: 4 years ago Hi Deborah following on from your point, here's a useful scripture.

Young's Literal Translation

(1 Thess 4:15, 16) for this to you we say in the word of the Lord, that we who are living -- who do remain over to the presence of the Lord -- may not precede those asleep, because the Lord himself, in a shout, in the voice of a chief-messenger , and in the trump of God, shall come down from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first,

Chief-messenger = Archangel

ἀρχάγγελος archángelos, ar-khang'-el-os; from G757 and G32; a chief angel:—archangel.

Yes. The Chief Angel is the Archangel the Archangel is Michael.
Yes- the Name God's son had before being given the Name "Jesus".
"You MUST worship Him with spirit and TRUTH!"- Jesus

Marina
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#24 Post by Marina » 4 years ago

Yes Jesus is the Word of God. He is God's chief messenger. He is the one God wants us to listen to.

(Luke 6:46-48) 46 “Why, then, do YOU call me ‘Lord! Lord!’ but do not do the things I say? 47 Everyone that comes to me and hears my words and does them, I will show YOU whom he is like: 48 He is like a man building a house, who dug and went down deep and laid a foundation upon the rock-mass. Consequently, when a flood arose, the river dashed against that house, but was not strong enough to shake it, because of its being well built. . .
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#25 Post by BroRando » 1 month ago

Another Scripture that awaits to be seen in the light... (Isaiah 9:6)


For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Angel of Great Counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. (Isaiah 9:6 LXX) This scripture easily links to (Proverbs 8:35-36) & (Judges 13:18)


His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: upon the throne of David, and his kingdom, to establish it, and to support with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of Jehovah of hosts shall perform this. (Isaiah 9:7)


Another rendition from the period of the second century, we see "ὅτι παιδίον ἐγενήθη ἡμῖν, υἱὸς καὶ ἐδόθη ἡμῖν, οὗ ἡ ἀρχὴ ἐγεννήθη ἐπὶ τοῦ ὤμου αὐτοῦ, καὶ καλεῖται τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Μεγάλης βουλῆς ἄγγελoς, < θαυμαστὸς σύμβουλος, Θεὸς ἰσχυρός, ἐξουσιαστής, ἄρχων εἰρήνης, πατὴρ τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος· >*: ἐγὼ γὰρ ἄξω εἰρήνην ἐπὶ τοὺς ἄρχοντας, εἰρήνην καὶ ὑγίειαν" (Isaiah 9:6) Some translators remove Angel and inserted Messenger to hide the identity of the person being sent in Isaiah 9:6 ἄγγελoς - ángelos - angel -

Chief-messenger = Archangel
ἀρχάγγελος archángelos, ar-khang'-el-os; from G757 and G32; a chief angel:—archangel a child a son

www.brorando.com/post/another-scripture ... isaiah-9-6

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#26 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

BroRando wrote: 1 month ago Another Scripture that awaits to be seen in the light... (Isaiah 9:6)

For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Angel of Great Counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. (Isaiah 9:6 LXX) This scripture easily links to (Proverbs 8:35-36) & (Judges 13:18)

His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: upon the throne of David, and his kingdom, to establish it, and to support with judgment and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of Jehovah of hosts shall perform this. (Isaiah 9:7)

Another rendition from the period of the second century, we see "ὅτι παιδίον ἐγενήθη ἡμῖν, υἱὸς καὶ ἐδόθη ἡμῖν, οὗ ἡ ἀρχὴ ἐγεννήθη ἐπὶ τοῦ ὤμου αὐτοῦ, καὶ καλεῖται τὸ ὄνομα αὐτοῦ Μεγάλης βουλῆς ἄγγελoς, < θαυμαστὸς σύμβουλος, Θεὸς ἰσχυρός, ἐξουσιαστής, ἄρχων εἰρήνης, πατὴρ τοῦ μέλλοντος αἰῶνος· >*: ἐγὼ γὰρ ἄξω εἰρήνην ἐπὶ τοὺς ἄρχοντας, εἰρήνην καὶ ὑγίειαν" (Isaiah 9:6) Some translators remove Angel and inserted Messenger to hide the identity of the person being sent in Isaiah 9:6 ἄγγελoς - ángelos - angel -

Chief-messenger = Archangel
ἀρχάγγελος archángelos, ar-khang'-el-os; from G757 and G32; a chief angel:—archangel a child a son

www.brorando.com/post/another-scripture ... isaiah-9-6
Hello BroRando,

Here are the Hebrew and Greek translations. As you can see the phrase 'angel of great counsel' has been inserted into the Greek rendering. Heb.Isa 9:6 LXX Isa 9:6 (boxes mine)
Image

Image

This possibly is one of the reasons why 1st century Jews thought Jesus had come to fulfil Ps 2:2,6. But he hadn't. He consistently referred to himself as the Son of Man and forbade his disciples from calling him the Messiah/Christ Mt 16:20, because he would not be installed as king until what it says at Dan 7:13,14 is fulfilled, which is after the Son of Man returns Mt 24:30; 25:31.

Paul didn't say he was an arc angel but that he calls out with an archangel's voice. In this old world we humans tend to be overly concerned with position and place. This is not so in the heavenly realm. Angels/messengers have job titles that befit the work they do, i.e. watchers, (Dan 4:17). Michael (WhoislikeGod) is a great prince, in the sense as used at Gen 12:15 that stands in behalf of Daniel's people. That was his job. Like Jesus, those of the heavenly realm do have personal names but seem reluctant to reveal them, (cf. Gen 32:29). Even Abraham worshipped an unnamed God of the field

Image
(highlights, strikethrough & added text mine) Ex 6:3

7706. Shadday
Shadday: Almighty
Original Word: שַׁדַּי
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: Shadday
Phonetic Spelling: (shad-dah'-ee)
Definition: field, land
. The first time Shadday was rendered Almighty was in the Latin Vulgate Bible.

At his trial the high priest tried to force Jesus to say that he was the Messiah/Christ, he needed that admission to get the Romans to kill him. So he made Jesus answer a double-barrelled question that Jesus was constrained to answer, Mt 26:63. That he was the son of God was well attested to, God had publicly acknowledged him as his son, but he was not the Messiah/Christ/King. So he chose his words with the utmost care, Mt 26:64. And again when he was brought before Pilate who questioned him, (Lu 23:2,3). Position and place were important in the hierarchical structure of Jewish society, even as it came to be amongst Christians. But Jesus wasn't like that at all, and he tried to drum this message home to his disciples, calling them friends, Jhn 15:13, 14, 15. Those who go to heaven are given new names (Rev 2:17; 3:12;14:1).
LRW~

Marina
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#27 Post by Marina » 3 weeks ago

Hi CI

If Jesus wasn't the Messiah, what was Daniel talking about here?

(Daniel 9:25) . . .And you should know and have the insight [that] from the going forth of [the] word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah [the] Leader, there will be seven weeks, also sixty-two weeks. She will return and be actually rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in the straits of the times.

My view is that Jesus was definitely the Messiah but he still has plenty to do and will be doing it.

Also

(John 1:41-42)First this one found his own brother, Simon, and said to him: “We have found the Messiah” (which means, when translated, Christ).  He led him to Jesus. When Jesus looked upon him he said: “You are Simon the son of John; you will be called Cephas” (which is translated Peter). . .

Jesus did not go around saying who he was so much as he allowed others to say it. He was being recognised by his works, the truth the spirit by which he did them. People had to see and understand that Jesus was not breaking the Law of Moses and he was acting in harmony with of God' holy spirit.

(Matthew 12:32) . . .For example, whoever speaks a word against the Son of man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the holy spirit, it will not be forgiven him, no, not in this system of things nor in that to come. . .

(Mark 3:19-30) . . .And he went into a house.  Once more the crowd gathered, so that they were not able even to eat a meal.  But when his relatives heard about it, they went out to lay hold of him, for they were saying: “He has gone out of his mind.”  Also, the scribes that came down from Jerusalem were saying: “He has Be‧el′ze‧bub, and he expels the demons by means of the ruler of the demons.”  So, after calling them to him, he began to say to them with illustrations: “How can Satan expel Satan?  Why, if a kingdom becomes divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand;  and if a house becomes divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand.  Also, if Satan has risen up against himself and become divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end.  In fact, no one that has got into the house of a strong man is able to plunder his movable goods unless first he binds the strong man, and then he will plunder his house.  Truly I say to YOU that all things will be forgiven the sons of men, no matter what sins and blasphemies they blasphemously commit.  However, whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit has no forgiveness forever, but is guilty of everlasting sin.”  This, because they were saying: “He has an unclean spirit.”


:flowers:
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#28 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 3 weeks ago

I wrote my own commentary here on Isaiah 9:6, and it's possible meanings and interpretations.


https://proselytiserofyah.wordpress.com ... other-son/
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#29 Post by Stranger » 3 weeks ago

Proselytiser of Jah wrote: 3 weeks ago I wrote my own commentary here on Isaiah 9:6, and it's possible meanings and interpretations.
Hey Proz,

I wish you would stop advertising here on this site. Seems you're looking for some leftovers, sorry but that's just how I see it.

If you were such a hit you wouldn't even be here, now ain't that right?


Stranger, (3Jn 9)

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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#30 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 3 weeks ago

Stranger wrote: 3 weeks ago
Proselytiser of Jah wrote: 3 weeks ago I wrote my own commentary here on Isaiah 9:6, and it's possible meanings and interpretations.
Hey Proz,

I wish you would stop advertising here on this site. Seems you're looking for some leftovers, sorry but that's just how I see it.


Stranger, (3Jn 9)

I just happen to see this thread as I popped by and posted one of my articles on the subject that I thought genuinely might be helpful or useful to others. This isn't about me at all, it's an act of service on my part to my fellow brothers and sisters, I have nothing to personally gain from whether people listen to me or not, I serve our Lord.

I could have manually wrote or posted my opinions on this subject here, but it was easier to just link an article that I already wrote. And that's all I'm doing. I don't do it for "presitige" or followers, or attention.


If you were such a hit you wouldn't even be here, now ain't that right?
Bit rude and uncalled for wasn't it? Call yourself a brother? If you knew God, you would know love, and if you knew love, you would appreciate and respect any hard work and research that a fellow worker of the Lord provides to the Congregation of believers


Whoever said I was a hit? Or even if I thought I was? Not me. I need nothing from you, nor anyone here. I'm merely contributing my works for the benefit of the whole who are gathered here, they don't have to read it or agree with it if they don't want to. It's just another option and opinion to consider.



"He is conceited and understands nothing. Instead, he has an unhealthy interest in controversies and semantics, out of which come envy, strife, abusive talk, evil suspicions, and constant friction between men of depraved mind who are devoid of the truth. These men regard godliness as a means of gain" - 1 Timothy 6:4-5

"The acts of the flesh are obvious. .hatred, discord, jealousy, and rage; rivalries, divisions, factions" - Galatians 5:19-20


I apply these things to you, Stranger. You are a worker of flesh, who accuses his brothers in Christ (me) falsely and without cause, and in the most crude and hurtful manner.


I find it very difficult to hold my tongue back from saying something more against a person such as yourself, but because I am dedicated to the Christ, I will leave my peace at that.
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

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