Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

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Nicodemus
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#11 Post by Nicodemus » 4 years ago

ANTONINVS wrote: 4 years ago There is a notable difference between a "Messenger" and "Messenger of great counsel".

A "messenger" or "angel" is what one is. Whereas a "Messenger of great counsel" is the role or function one performs. Therefore, regardless of which rendering one prefers (LXX or MT) the verse does not present any difficulty.
We agree on something :)
Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father! - Philippians 2:11

jo-el
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#12 Post by jo-el » 4 years ago

GodsWordIsTruth wrote: 4 years ago I recently talked to someone who said that they prefer the LXX rendering of Isaiah 9:6. From what this person explained the LXX differs from our text for Isaiah 9:6.

I am no Hebrew scholar. How can I research this?

Why would the text differ?
Hi GWiT,
I'm so pleased to see you back here and thought about you often. I hope you and your family are well.
To begin to answer your second question, the text of LXX and Masoretic differ because they are different text families.
Contrary to popular opinion, the Masoretic text is not demonstrably "older" or "original" and the LXX is not in the end a translation of the Masoretic text.

There are many difficulties within the Masoretic text used in almost all bibles which do not exist in LXX.
The early Christian church mainly used LXX, which is quite believeable since it seems almost certain that the vast majority of the New Testament was also recorded in the same Koine Greek.
LXX seems to be the most quoted version of OT text in the NT.

I listened to some audio messages from one of the few sources I have actually come to trust, which I found absolutely invaluable and enlightening on this exact subject if you are interested in being quick-schooled :)

GodsWordIsTruth
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#13 Post by GodsWordIsTruth » 4 years ago

Wow, guys!

Thanks for all of the information. I am bumbling around with E-sword now. I needed a working understanding to even began to research this. You guys have given me a great start.

GWIT

Nicodemus
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#14 Post by Nicodemus » 4 years ago

I would love a link to the teaching on this.
Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father! - Philippians 2:11

Nicodemus
Posts: 853
Joined: 6 years ago
Location: us

Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#15 Post by Nicodemus » 4 years ago

I would love a link to those materials Joel
Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father! - Philippians 2:11


jo-el
Posts: 1126
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#17 Post by jo-el » 4 years ago

GodsWordIsTruth wrote: 4 years ago
Nicodemus wrote: 4 years ago I would love a link to those materials Joel
So would I Jo-el! :D
Ok, I would love to just give them to you, but I wanted to check on the authors policy regarding copyright and they do prohibit redistribution for reasons they lay out at some length. Although they have posted a pretty large number of messages on youtube, the LXX messages are not among the freely available. So I will post the link to one of the message sets I had in mind and hopefully you might be tempted to have a listen.

https://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/product3610.html

I do not use Audible myself, but I believe they do publish on Audible some titles

I think it is 10 dollars for this 3 part message. Nothing overly technical, just the benefit of a brothers personal research distilled in his audio messages.

I hope you enjoy!

Stranger
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#18 Post by Stranger » 4 years ago

Hebrews 3:1 describes Jesus as an apostle, however since he is the son of God and also the son of Mary, he's in a very good position to be anything he wants.

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theMadJW
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#19 Post by theMadJW » 4 years ago

Image

Jerome wrote: 4 years ago Here is how Brenton's translation of the Septuagint renders the verse:
Isa 9:6  For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 
The word translated as Messenger in the verse is the Greek word angelos which is also used of angels. However, I would not be quick to jump to the conclusion that this means Jesus is an angel in the same sense as all the others. He is God's chief messenger. (Heb 1:1-14)

Jerome
*************************************************************************************************************

Unless one is still under the Spell of the RCC, seeing fat, winged babies, the Fact is that "angel" ONLY refers to any sent by God (men or spirit beings) with His Message.
Jesus, John the Baptist,Satan (in Pretense), and the elders in Revelation were angels (messengers) of God.
"You MUST worship Him with spirit and TRUTH!"- Jesus

DeborahsTree
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#20 Post by DeborahsTree » 4 years ago

Jesus is the Chief Messenger of God.

The Word is the Chief Messenger, the one through whom Jehovah, the Father, speaks.

He and the Father are One. What the Father does the Word does. What the Father speaks the Word speaks.

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