Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

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GodsWordIsTruth
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Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#1 Post by GodsWordIsTruth » 4 years ago

Hi All,

I recently talked to someone who said that they prefer the LXX rendering of Isaiah 9:6. From what this person explained the LXX differs from our text for Isaiah 9:6.

I am no Hebrew scholar. How can I research this?

Why would the text differ?

GWIT

Jerome
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#2 Post by Jerome » 4 years ago

I have a Bible search program called E-Sword. It allows you to download Bibles, dictionaries, lexicons and commentaries. From there you can look up Brenton's Septuagint or the Apostolic Bible Polyglot.
Download it for free at http://www.e-sword.net/

There are various reasons offered as to why the Septuagint differs from the Masoretic Text. Some believe it could have been translated from an older Hebrew original that is no longer in existence. What I find interesting is, in most cases, when the NT writers quote the Hebrew scriptures the wording is similar to the Septuagint.

Jerome

Jerome
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#3 Post by Jerome » 4 years ago

Here is how Brenton's translation of the Septuagint renders the verse:
Isa 9:6  For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 
The word translated as Messenger in the verse is the Greek word angelos which is also used of angels. However, I would not be quick to jump to the conclusion that this means Jesus is an angel in the same sense as all the others. He is God's chief messenger. (Heb 1:1-14)

Jerome

GodsWordIsTruth
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#4 Post by GodsWordIsTruth » 4 years ago

Jerome wrote: 4 years ago Here is how Brenton's translation of the Septuagint renders the verse:
Isa 9:6  For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him. 
The word translated as Messenger in the verse is the Greek word angelos which is also used of angels. However, I would not be quick to jump to the conclusion that this means Jesus is an angel in the same sense as all the others. He is God's chief messenger. (Heb 1:1-14)

Jerome
Isaiah 9:6English Standard Version (ESV)
6 For to us a child is born,
to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon[a] his shoulder,
and his name shall be called
Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace
.

Thank you for your reply. I am going to get E-Sword.

This verse doesn't include the "Everlasting Father" and "Mighty God" lines. I usually start with this scripture with JWS to lay the groundwork for the divinity of Christ. I was surprised when someone whipped this out on me. Thanks for the scriptural reference.

Agape,
GWIT

simplyme
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#5 Post by simplyme » 4 years ago

I know you mentioned it Jerome, but I love the Apostolic bible’s rendering because it shows all the roles Jesus has.
“For a child has been born to us; a Son was given to us, of whom the sovereignty became upon his shoulders; and his name is called, Messenger of great counsel, wonderful, counselor, mighty God, potentate, ruler of peace, father of the eon about to be.”

Jerome
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#6 Post by Jerome » 4 years ago

When I learned that the inspired Christian writers quotations from the OT matched the Septuagint more than the Masoretic text, the Apostolic Bible seemed a necessary purchase.

AmosAU
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#7 Post by AmosAU » 4 years ago

Hi GWIT,

Like Jerome, I've used E-sword for years & find it excellent.
There are literally thousands of additional bibles & reference books that can be added to this program from an associated site;

http://www.wordmodules.com/index.php?ap ... 425&id=107

Here's the verse from the JPS Tanach; Isa 9:6 (9:5) For a child is born unto us, a son is given unto us; and the government is upon his shoulder; and his name is called Pele- joez-el-gibbor-Abi-ad-sar-shalom;
Isa 9:7 (9:6) That the government may be increased, and of peace there be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to uphold it through justice and through righteousness from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts doth perform this.

BTW, the LXX is excellent as is the Apostolic Bible Polyglot.

Regards, Amos.

ANTONINVS
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#8 Post by ANTONINVS » 4 years ago

There is a notable difference between a "Messenger" and "Messenger of great counsel".

A "messenger" or "angel" is what one is. Whereas a "Messenger of great counsel" is the role or function one performs. Therefore, regardless of which rendering one prefers (LXX or MT) the verse does not present any difficulty.

ANTONINVS
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#9 Post by ANTONINVS » 4 years ago

I forgot to mention "Messenger of great counsel" is actually a title. Therein lies the difference.

ANTONINVS
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Re: Isaiah 9:6 LXX- Jesus an Angel?

#10 Post by ANTONINVS » 4 years ago

We should also remember that the word "apostle" is synonymous with the word "messenger". However, this does not mean an apostle is an angel, does it? (? rhetorical)

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