Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

[Marina]

CI have you ever wondered whether the beast that was and is not is Communism? After all the idea of a plan of ages, much like Watchtower, depends on utopianism. Sort of Neverland. A new age dawning that never actually dawns because, it never will.

Yes God's Kingdom will come but never Communism's utopia.

[coccus ilicis]

Political Jockeying at the UN

News Update from post 170 on the previous page.
Biden finds himself between a rock and a hard place. He can't support UN globalist aims and the US weapons industry at the same time. The globalist leadership touts peace and security as their central doctrine. Whereas the US military-industrial complex needs continuous war to justify its very existence.

The UN is now attempting to bring the US and its protege Israel to heel. UN General Assembly says Israel must get rid of its nuclear arsenal The United Nations General Assembly First Committee, which deals with disarmament and international security issues, called on Israel to get rid of all its atomic weapons, and place its nuclear sites under the supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency in a 152 to 5 vote ... Five countries, Canada, Israel, Micronesia, Palau and the United States opposed the resolution on Friday ...Twenty-four other countries abstained, including members of the European Union. ... The resolution submitted by Egypt ... notes that Israel is the only country in the Middle East and one of the few among the 193 UN member states not to have signed the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty (NPT) … It further calls on the Jewish state "to accede to the Treaty without further delay, not to develop, produce, test or otherwise acquire nuclear weapons, to renounce possession of nuclear weapons, and to place all of its unsafe-guarded nuclear facilities under full-scope Agency safeguards as an important confidence-building measure.
the Iranian Nuclear Deal
The Iran nuclear deal is about to celebrate its fifth anniversary of implementation, but the agreement has looked at best shaky since the Trump administration withdrew from it in 2018, imposing damaging economic sanctions on the Islamic Republic. In response, Tehran has ramped up its nuclear activity against a backdrop of high regional tensions.

So, step by step the situation is reaching critical mass. Since Trump withdrew the US from the agreement with Iran and sanctioned it. Iran has stepped up its production of weapons-grade nuclear material. And will use the above resolution as a bargaining chip in its negotiations for a new deal, i.e. either Israel places its nuclear sites under the supervision of the International Atomic Energy Agency, as Iran, having already signed and previously ratified the UN Treaty on the Non-Proliferation of Nuclear Weapons is required to do, or the deal if off the table.

See the map that shows the countries that have UN membership, post 159, here. The green countries have signed all the treaties and ratified them. The yellow countries have signed, indicating their desire to be partners to a treaty, but have not ratified some of the treaties. The red countries have not signed, indicating they do not want to be part of the UN and its treaties. A country ratifies a treaty when it has the agreement of its parliament or congress, with all its member states agreeing to be part of it. And it is one of the reasons why America has not ratified a whole bunch of treaties. Once a treaty is ratified the country comes under the jurisdiction of that treaty and must comply with all its rulings, which in effect means that any of its states or provinces, etc. must comply with this UN law or be in breach and be liable to all the stated consequences of that agreement. So bringing these two nations, Israel and Iran, to heel has now become a priority for the UN.

This was the matter that was revealed to Daniel in Dan 10:1-14 in a vision of the future, and the matter was true, and there was a great military service and he understood what he had seen. Although he knew nothing of our world today, it appears he understood the implications of what he saw. Needing further explanation, he fasts for twenty-one days. Then 3 days later on the twenty-fourth day of the first of the month a man clothed in linen comes to him to explain. His appearance was such that it freaked Daniel out and he faints. When he comes to his senses the man clothed in linen says that he had been wanting to come to him from the first day after Daniel had seen the vision, saying: a prince of the royal realm of Persia, [Iran], was standing [by] me for twenty-one days, (Dan 10:13).

Modern translations say, 'standing in opposition to me,' which skews the texts. As you can see it is the participle of the infinitive verb 'to stand.'

(highlights, arrows, underline and added text mine)

The phrase, 'standing in opposition to me,' appears to come from the Latin Vulgate.
13 princeps autem regni Persarum restitit mihi viginti et uno diebus et ecce Michahel unus de principibus primis venit in adiutorium meum et ego remansi ibi iuxta regem Persarum
But the prince of the kingdom of the Persians resisted me one and twenty days: and behold Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, and I remained there by the king of the Persians. Vulgate, Dan 10:13, (underline mine).

In Hebrew, it says: I was standing beside a prince of Persia for twenty-one days, and look Michael, one of the foremost princes came to help me for I had been left alone there beside the kings of Persia/Iran, (Dan 10:13). This indicates that this unearthly man clothed in linen was beside the king of the Persians, supporting him. And because he was alone, he couldn't leave to come to Daniel until Michael arrived to fill in for him.

Around the same time of Daniel's vision, Ezekiel had also seen the man clothed in linen. This one has a secretary's inkhorn at his hips and was associated with the cherubs (cf. Ezk 10:1,2,3; 9:1,2,3,4,5,6), the same ones guarding the entry to the garden of Eden to prevent Adam and Eve from returning to eat from the tree of life, (Gen 3:4)

In Ezekiel's vision, Jehovah says to the man clothed in linen: "Pass through the midst of Jerusalem and you must put a mark on the foreheads of men sighing and groaning over the detestable things that are being done in the midst of it. And to those others, [those of Ezk 9:2}, he said: "Pass through the city after him and strike. Let not your heart feel sorry, and do not feel compassion ... any man upon who there is a mark do not go near, and from my sanctuary, you should start. Then he told them to defile the house and fill the courtyards with the slain ones, (Ezk 9:2,4,5,7).

And the man clothed in linen said to Daniel: I have come to cause you to understand what will befall your people in the final part of the days, because it is a vision yet for many days. (Dan 10:14). And it is now in our day that Isreal and Iran/Persia are at loggerheads as they have never been before. With this resolution before the UN General Assembly, it appears that the fulfilment of these visions is in progress.

The one like the son of man, then says: I shall go back to fight with the prince of Persia. 'With,' as in 'beside' the king of Persia, check the RH column here, with. And starting with Darius the Mede he fleshes out the interim period, (Dan 10:16,18,19,20,21;11:1). And from Dan 11:40, he tells us what happens in the time of the end. During that period things would be revealed that had been hidden until then, (Dan 12:1,4). And one of those standing by asks the man dressed in linen that is standing above the waters of the Nile, "How long will it be to the end of these wonderful things?" And he swears, "It will be for an appointed time, appointed times and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish," (Dan 12:6,7).

[Stranger]

And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish," (Dan 12:6,7).

Stranger wrote,

the disgusting thing is flying high and from what I see very Mightily, so much so that it even stands on Holy Ground, I'm not so sure one has to be Spirit Anointed to be able to view what we see.

viewtopic.php?t=3030&start=50


Holy no more, or Holy a lot more? Seems to be an important decision. (Dan 12:7) verses (Dan 12:7 KJV)

What say you, Coccus Ilicis? Just another noncomplying scripture, just another bad translation and on whose part, the old guys or the new guys?


Stranger, (Jn 18:20 KJV)

[coccus ilicis]

CI have you ever wondered whether the beast that was and is not is Communism? After all the idea of a plan of ages, much like Watchtower, depends on utopianism. Sort of Neverland. A new age dawning that never actually dawns because, it never will.

Yes, God's Kingdom will come but never Communism's utopia.

Hi Marina

I can't see the beast that was and is not as Communism, as it doesn't fit what it says about this beast in Rev 17:7,8,11. Communism is an ideology such as fascism, socialism, monarchism etc. But I can see what you are getting at. Let me know if the following is not what was on your mind.

Humankind has wrestled with its own nature, looking for ways to control it from the time it emerged from the garden of Eden. Cain is the first example, (Gen 4:7). From the 1600s in Britain and 1776 in America, the concept of overthrowing the monarchy spread to France in 1786 with tyrannical consequences. Jefferson an advocate of the French revolution was a Deist. Deism is a belief in a God who created the universe but doesn't interfere in human affairs, as opposed to Theism which says God works through religions, such as Christianity, Islam and Judaism. Both concepts about God are true in part, but they are the truths of a child, even as Paul explained, (1Cor 13:9-11).

The WT's vision of the future does have the feel of a kind of communism, but a communism with a totalitarian twist to it. But the faithful discreet slave to whom Jesus commits all his belongings does not beat his fellow slaves as the foolish slave does,(Mt 24:45-49). The job of those to whom he commits all his belongings has to do with the healing of the nations, (Rev 22:1,2). They have completed the first steps on the road to life by cleansing and whitening themselves and being refined, (Dan 12: 2, 9,10; Mal 3:1-3). They are the trailblazers.

Although Satan will be abyssed, human nature will still rule the individual during the thousand-year rule, and whether they cleanse and whiten themselves will be up to them. Jehovah says concerning that time: For I am creating a new heavens and a new earth and the former things will not be called to mind. It will not be like anything humanity has conceived in the past. No more will live an infant but a few days ... nor an old man who does not fulfil his days. Then making a contrast between the resurrected ones who cleanse and whiten themselves and those who do not, he says: Although a hundred years old the sinner shall die and he will abate/recede, Isa 65:20. The underlined Heb. word for abate/recede is rendered cursed in most bibles which is misleading. It first occurs at Gen 8:8. It seems to infer that whatever he does is bound to fail. And yet they remain to the end of the thousand year rule when their number will be as the sand of the sea, (Rev 20:8. Jehovah then contrasts these ones with those who make the necessary effort to apply the teaching of Jesus, even as the great crowd that survives the great tribulation had done, (cf: Rev 7:14). They will build houses and certainly have occupancy, they will plant vineyards and eat their fruitage ...For like the days of a tree the days of my people will be and the work of their own hands my chosen ones will use to the full. They will not toil for nothing, nor will they bring birth to disturbance, because they are the offspring made up of the blessed ones of Jehovah and their descendants with them, (Isa 65:17-25).

Deism is on the right track, but it is only the partial knowledge of a child. In the age of enlightenment, Jefferson and others were blinded by their own insights and new-found knowledge. They were too young to play with matches. But did it anyway.

Soon all will see the proof not only that God is interested in human affairs, but that he also makes things happen, i.e. the current conflict between Iran and Israel, (see post 172 above cf. Mt 24:22). Heavenly watchers have been watching the earth for millennia, decreeing what should be done e.g. Gen 6:5 and Dan 4:13, 14-16, 17. And religion has played a necessary role in all this in that it recorded and preserved God's dealings with man. But the age of enlightenment put it into the myths basket. A big mistake.

Our creator has been involved in humankind's affairs right from the beginning. He left it up to Adam and Eve to discover for themselves what is good and what is bad - what is life-promoting and what is death-dealing. Whether we learn from our mistakes or not, is our choice. It has always been our choice, and always will be the choice of humankind who is made in God's image.

[Marina]

Hi CI - I am thinking of Communism in relation to Theosufism - Communism political, Theosufism all religions made into one religion, potentially becoming the very epitome of Babylon the Great. Communism and Theosufism come from the attempt to unite Italy, I imagine to take it back to its glory days as the Roman Empire. The process (I assume) would have been ongoing since Rome's fall. Therefore, you'd see endless promises of utopia, progressive technology to bring a new golden age, just as you get with Communism.

In the West politics and religion are separate. Attempting to change this situation, those opposed to Christianity try to use the Greek myths to establish a different kind of religion, one with its basis in Babylon and paste that over Christianity. One example of this is the old Greek/Roman gods being given Christian significance via Catholic Saints. Were it possible to align politics with a reinvented Babylonian religion, right and wrong could be changed. Our Father, wont allow that and Jesus' words will not fail. However, the last days are described as critical times hard to deal with.

Also
(Daniel 7:11-12) . . .“I kept on beholding at that time because of the sound of the grandiose words that the horn was speaking; I kept on beholding until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed and it was given to the burning fire. 12 But as for the rest of the beasts, their rulerships were taken away, and there was a lengthening in life given to them for a time and a season. . .

(Daniel 7:25-26) . . .And he will speak even words against the Most High, and he will harass continually the holy ones themselves of the Supreme One. And he will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, and times and half a time. 26 And the Court itself proceeded to sit, and his own rulership they finally took away, in order to annihilate [him] and to destroy [him] totally. . .

(Daniel 8:23-25) . . .“And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, there will stand up a king fierce in countenance and understanding ambiguous sayings. 24 And his power must become mighty, but not by his own power. And in a wonderful way he will cause ruin, and he will certainly prove successful and do effectively. And he will actually bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of [the] holy ones. 25 And according to his insight he will also certainly cause deception to succeed in his hand. And in his heart he will put on great airs, and during a freedom from care he will bring many to ruin. And against the Prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken. . .

(Revelation 11:3) . . .And I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy a thousand two hundred and sixty days dressed in sackcloth.”

(Revelation 11:7-8) . . .And when they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will make war with them and conquer them and kill them. 8 And their corpses will be on the broad way of the great city which is in a spiritual sense called Sod′om and Egypt, where their Lord was also impaled. . .


Historically there has always been a difference between Russia and the West. My understanding is that Russia has no tradition of the Greek myths which makes the telling of certain kinds of fairy tales (on which this reinvented Babylonian religion would depend) more difficult in Russia. For that reason Byron and Pushkin stepped in with their ideas thereby bringing about the Decemberists and that which followed thereafter.

[coccus ilicis]

The 2nd Woe
Political jockeying continues

In post 170 I said

But deprived of its champion in the UN arena what will Israel do with regard to Iran, and vice versa? And what will America do???

And in post 172 I said:

Biden finds himself between a rock and a hard place. He can't support UN globalist aims and the US weapons industry at the same time

That question, 'What will Israel and America do?' has now been answered.

US Admits Iran Is Not Building a Nuclear Bomb America’s top diplomat for negotiating a nuclear deal with Iran said on October 30 that the US is not going to "waste time" trying to keep the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action (JCPOA) nuclear deal alive. ...President Biden’s special envoy for Iran, Robert Malley, said that “It is not on our agenda ... The Biden administration has walked so far away from the negotiations that another senior US official recently said that because of Iran’s response to protests, and because of its support for Russia in the war in Ukraine, "even if Iran came back to the table today and said it wanted a nuclear deal, the U.S. was unlikely to move forward." ... That senior Biden official went on to say that the US is virtually considering the deal dead, and is "taking steps to ensure the US has a ready military option."
On October 27, after a long delay, the US Department of Defense finally released its Nuclear Posture Review ... The review contained a bombshell that failed to explode in the media
The US insistence
that it would use a nuclear weapon in a first strike
that it would use a nuclear weapon in the face of a conventional threat
and that it would use a nuclear weapon, not only to defend itself but to defend an ally,
were colossal enough to draw all the attention. For the links to these sound bites, click on the link above.

No doubt they consider the JCPOA nuclear deal a dead duck because they realize that Iran won't sign the new deal unless Israel comes to the party. And that is something that Israel won't do. How long the hiatus lasts before all hell breaks lose is anyone's guess. But, whereas for the US to use a nuclear weapon in a first strike is new, pre-emption has always been part of Israel’s military doctrine Jerusalem Post.

The stage is set for the last scene, the 3rd Woe, (Rev11:14,15). The man dressed in linen said to Daniel ... I have come to cause you to discern what will befall your people in the final part of the days, (Dan 10:14) ...Look I am coming as a thief. Happy is the man that keeps on his outer garments ... And they gathered them together in a place called in Hebrew Har-Magedon ...And lightnings and noises and thunders occurred and a great quaking occurred such as has not occurred since men came to be on earth, so great a quaking that the great city split into three parts, [cf. Rev 17:18], and the cities of the nations fell, and Babylon the great was remembered in the sight of God to give her the cup of the wine of the anger of God's wrath, (Rev 16: 15,16,17,18,19).

[coccus ilicis]

The beast that ascended out of the abyss is about to become the eighth beast, (Rev 17:11)

John is carried away into a wilderness where he sees a woman sitting on a scarlet-coloured beast that is full of blasphemous names and has seven heads and ten horns. Note, that although it has the same appearance as the beast that rises from the sea, (Rev 13:1,2), this beast is in the wilderness, literally a eremos – desolate, lonesome place. In the 1st century, the beast she rode was incomplete, five of its heads had fallen, the one that existed was Rome and one was still to come, Rev 17:3,10. And the angel says to John, I will tell you the mystery of the woman and the beast that is carrying her, that has seven heads and ten horns. And the beast you saw, that was and is not and is yet about to ascend out of the abyss. And is to go off into destruction, (Rev 17:7,8). The only beast that John had seen that was and is not that fits this description was the slaughtered healed head of the democratic United Nations beast of Rev 13:3,4,11,12,13. In 70 CE this head/beast had been slaughtered and ceased to exist, Israel was a people without a homeland. It was granted statehood in 1948 by UN vote and granted a portion of land in Palestine, (Rev 13:1,2,3,4). And the angel told John, And the beast that was, and is not, and is also himself an eighth, but springs from the seven and goes off into destruction, (Rev 17:11).


Note it doesn't say king. So is it an 8th beast or a king?

We have been accustomed to thinking of it as a horn or king and therefore misapplied Dan 7:8, 10, saying 10 horns minus 3 =7 plus the little horn = 8. But this was wrong. The little horn didn't replace the three horns, it made them fall and humiliated them, (Dan 7:8,20,24). For more on this see the disgusting thing in post 150, here. The three horns it felled were. Christendom, Islam and Judaism - the 3 measures of flour in which the woman hid the leaven (Mt 13:33).

The reason I said in post 170

concerning the horn that was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss. And then it says concerning it: And the beast that you saw that was but is not, it is also itself an eighth [???] but springs from the seven ... And goes off into destruction,(Rev 17:11)

That this was

a very precise description

Is because this beast Israel not being a member of the UN will disregard the UN and go to war with Iran/Persia regardless, and fulfil what the man dressed in linen said to Daniel ... I have come to cause you to discern what will befall your people in the final part of the days, (Dan10:14). And indeed the description of it is precise. Although the UN continues in its efforts to get Israel to comply and take up its membership, the prophecy in Daniel chapter 10 and Ezk chapter 9 tells us that won't happen, (see post 172 above). They will stick to their guns and go to war and attack Iran. And in this way the beast that was but is not and has been healed will become the eighth and final beast, And I kept on beholding until the beast was killed and its body was destroyed in the burning fire... But as for the rest of the beasts their rulership was taken away, and there was a lengthening in life given to them for a time and a season. And with the clouds of the heavens, someone like the son of man happened to be coming ... and to him, there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve him ...And the kingdom and rulership and the grandeur of the kingdom of the heavens were given to the people made up of the holy ones of the Supreme One, (Dan 7:11-13,27)

And it looks like these holy ones are about to be silenced: It will be for an appointed time, times and a half. And as soon as there will have been a finishing of the dashing of the power of the holy people to pieces, all these things will come to their finish, (Dan 12:7).

So this might well be my last post on this forum as Apollos says in post 1, here

Sometime in the next few days this forum will close to new postings.
Existing content will remain for now.
Thank you all for your contributions.
Best,
Apollos

Thank you, Apollos, for letting us know.

So it is goodbye for now dear friends until we meet again.

[Stranger]

Note it doesn't say king. So is it an 8th beast or a king?

It say's it belongs to seventh, meaning, "property of".

Coccus, I'm surprised you even asked that question!

You're a good reader but sometimes your imagination gets the best of you.


Stranger, (Gen 8:21)

[coccus ilicis]

Note it doesn't say king. So is it an 8th beast or a king?

It say's it belongs to seventh, meaning, "property of".

Coccus, I'm surprised you even asked that question!

You're a good reader but sometimes your imagination gets the best of you.
Stranger, (Gen 8:21)

Hi Stranger,

Yes, sometimes my imagination does get the better of me, but not this time.

(highlights, arrows and added text mine)
See RH column, here. Coming out of something does not mean it belongs there. See Israel's UN membership

But a fault, if it can be called a fault, that I do have is that I'm very intense. I like to ferret things out to see how they work. And that made me ask who owns the forum and has the authority to shut it down. This is what I found.
(underline mine)

The Electronic Frontier Foundation was founded by Leonard Zubkoff, developer of the Linux operating system, the direct competitor to the Windows operating system. Leonard Zubkoff and his helicopter instructor were killed in a helicopter crash in 2002. See Leonard Zubkoff killed in a helicopter crash

Hmm, I can feel my imagination running wild.

So who owns the Electronic Frontier Foundation now? Who is it that has the power to shut down discussion forums, such as the DDT. Below is a partial list of the current donors of the Electronic Frontier Foundation.

Electronic Frontier Foundation - Wikipedia EFF as of 2014 had $23 million in assets,[50] having received multiple grants or donations above 1 million dollars in its history. On February 18, 2004, the EFF announced that it had received a bequest of US$1.2 million from the estate of EFF member Leonard Zubkoff, a software developer and entrepreneur.[51] It used $1 million of this money to establish the EFF Endowment Fund for Digital Civil Liberties. Beginning in 2010, the EFF began regularly receiving income from the Humble Indie Bundle. In 2010, these donations made up 14% of EFF's total revenue.[52] Between 2011 and 2014, the amount received from Humble Bundle reached $7.5 million or 23% of the EFF total revenues.[50][53][54]

That was then. Fast forward to 2011.

In 2011, the EFF received $1 million from Google as part of a settlement of a class action related to privacy issues involving Google Buzz. The Electronic Privacy Information Center and seven other privacy-focused nonprofits protested that the plaintiffs' lawyers and Google had, in effect, arranged to give the majority of those funds "to organizations that are currently paid by Google to lobby for or to consult for the company". An additional $1 million was obtained from Facebook in a similar settlement.[55]

In December 2014, the Adams Charitable Foundation granted EFF a $3 million endowment to fund the new Adams Chair for Internet Rights.[50]

The Adams Charitable Foundation was founded by Charles Francis Adams and his wife. Who was he? See, About the Donor, here. He became president of Raytheon Company in 1948.

Wikipedia says: The Raytheon Company was a major U.S. defense contractor and industrial corporation with manufacturing concentrations in weapons and military and commercial electronics. It was previously involved in corporate and special-mission aircraft until early 2007. Raytheon was the world's largest producer of guided missiles. In April 2020, the company merged with United Technologies Corporation to form Raytheon Technologies. (bold and underline mine)'

PS: I relied on sanitized sources for this information so it should be politically correct.

Hmm, my imagination has now completely gotten the better of me. But I can see why these major donors would want to control internet forums and have the ability to shut them down.

The woman whom you saw means a great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth ...And the great city was split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell; and Babylon the Great was remembered in God's sight, to give her the cup of the wine of the anger of his wrath, (Rev17:18;16:19).

[Stranger]

Who is it that has the power to shut down discussion forums, such as the DDT.

Hi CI,

Stranger has left the premises, the ban took effect by self implementation in case you had not heard. Told me he thought it best.

Matthew is the name, nice to meet you.

Stranger left me with a trunk in the corner with some letters, bills and demands I'm trying to get handled.

Right now, I'm just worried about trusting my soul with some back wood southern lawyer while the judges are trying to hang an innocent man.

Are we on DDT or DTT if you meant DTT than my answer would be Apollos.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4GMUlCBgd0