New "Dead Sea Scrolls"

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coccus ilicis
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Joined: 7 years ago

Re: New "Dead Sea Scrolls"

#11 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 year ago

Marina wrote: 1 year ago I got told the information. So no, no link. BUT check out Bede Griffiths. It's all to do with him. So I am guessing he wrote the prayer.

Hi Marina,

I couldn't find the site until Stranger sent it just now.

But, in the meantime found this excellent site:
Peshita Aramaic/English interlinear, which contains the old and new Testaments, including background material, and a ray of tools much like biblehub. It is a link well worth keeping in your toolbar.
If you click on Mattai Ch 6 in the drop-down list, under Interlinear NT, the Aramaic pdf file for Mt 6 automatically downloads to your computer, where you can save it and work with it. I copied the Aramaic script for our Father from the downloaded pdf file and pasted it into the Lexicon search box, under Tools and the following came up:
Word Number: 23
Meaning: father
Pronunciation: (Eastern) AaB,uON
(Western) AaB,uON
Part of Speech: Noun
Gender: Masculine
Number: Singular
State: Emphatic
Suffix Gender:
Suffix Person: First
Suffix Number: Plural
Lexeme Form:

'Father,' is an emphatic masculine noun with the pronominal plural suffix 'our.' Much the same as in Greek and Hebrew.

Then I copied thy name Mt 6:9 from the pdf file, and pasted it into the search box and the following came up:
Word Number: 21619
Meaning: name
Pronunciation: (Eastern) SHMaK,
(Western) SHMoK,
Part of Speech: Noun
Gender: Masculine
Number: Singular
State: Emphatic
Suffix Gender: Masculine
Suffix Person: Second
Suffix Number: Singular

'Name' is a masculine noun with the pronominal second person singular 'your' suffix. Much the same as in Greek and Hebrew.

To compare, go to Matt 6:9, here, and hover your cursor over the parsing [the blue acronym] under 'Father' and 'your name. you will see it is the same. It appears that in Aramaic as in Hebrew there is only masculine and feminine gender. So whatever this Bede Griffiths came up with is not from the Aramaic, Hebrew or Greek text. The only way he could make a transgender Father is by ignoring the gender of the manuscripts.

OK, but does what this guy claims have substance? To some extent, yes, but on the whole, no.

What Jesus said and did was transmitted by word of mouth. Oral speech is alive, for example, if I said: 'Father said you are not allowed to do that,' it is just a passive meaningless statement. But if I emphasize certain words with body language and tone it takes on a different meaning, i.e. FATHER said you are not allowed to do that. Or, Father said YOU are not allowed to do that, or, Father said you are not allowed TO DO THAT. In each case, it conveys a different message. To see how this works repeat this sentence in front of a mirror using body language and emphasizing the capitalized words.

This is what Jesus' listeners saw and heard, and each one understood what he said and heard differently depending on their own set of inner guilt, strengths, weaknesses and heart condition. His word is the seed sown on the ground … As for the one sown on fine soil, this is the one getting the sense of it, who really does bear fruit and produces, this one a hundredfold, that one sixty, the other thirty, , (Mt 13:18-23), Note that all the seed sprouted but only that on good soil, a good heart condition, produced fruit. And the emphasis is on quality and not quantity.

It has nothing to do with the language in which it is recorded. In the Greek version of the Lord's prayer all the verbs except one, do not lead us into temptation,' are imperative commands. In the Aramaic they are all imperfect, implying an ongoing process. Which shows how Aramaic listeners understood the prayer. Is the way they understood it wrong? Only if it alters the overall intent of the prayer which is the hallowing or setting apart of God's name, YHWH …Our Father LET YOUR NAME, [YHWH/HeCcomesToBe], be sanctified/set apart. Taking note of the imperative verb what we are saying is, Our Father make sure that your name is sanctified. For me, that is the overall intent of the prayer.

What follows is the means for achieving this. It doesn't concern itself with asking the Father for physical daily sustenance, as Jesus had already said: Do not pray the same things over and over again, just like people of the nations do, for they imagine they will get a hearing for their many words. So do not make yourselves like them. For God knows what things you are needing before you ever ask them, (Mt 6:7,8).

This documentary, Beama Film – Sherpa gives one insight into the belief and the saying of many prayers of the Sherpas

As is clearly demonstrated in this documentary about the Sherpa guides of mount Everest, is that their many prayers are not heard, But I imagine when the time comes, they, even more so than Christians, will readily heed the angel flying in mid-heaven, who cries out with a loud voice: “Fear God and Give him glory because the hour of judgment by him has arrived, and so worship the One who made the heavens and the earth and sea and fountains of waters," (Rev 14:7).

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