goghtherefore wrote: ↑6 months ago
Hi coccus ilicis
Re: "So it appears that everlasting life is granted to them at the end of the thousand years and not before." And: "So it is only at the end of the thousand-year reign that people no longer die."
1 Thessalonians 4 describes ones that will "ever be with the Lord"; long before the end of the thousand years:
"15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord."
You are quite right, I should have clarified what I meant when I said 'people
' are granted everlasting life only at the end of the thousand-year rule.
Paul wrote about the ones that would go to heaven, saying: Look I tell you a sacred secret flesh and blood cannot inherit God's kingdom ... We shall not all fall asleep in death but we shall be changed in a moment in the twinkling of an eye during the last trumpet. For that which is corruptible must put on incorruption ... For the trumpet will sound and the dead will be raised up incorruptible
, (1Cor 15:42,52). They no longer possess flesh and blood bodies that continually need to refresh.
They become spirit beings when they are called to heaven at the time of the sounding of the 7th trumpet, (Rev 11:11,12,15].
And it says of them at Dan 12:10 Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined and no wicked ones at all will understand
, The 'will be refined
' is the only passive verb there, and it is Jesus who does the refining, Mal 3:2,3).
(strikethrough, arrows, underline and added text mine),
That means that the 'cleansing and whitening' is done by them. And that not all do this is alluded to in Dan 12:2,10 where it says some would wake up to everlasting abhorrence ... and the wicked ones will certainly act wickedly and no wicked ones at all will understand
, (Dan 12:2,10).
When the mother of the sons of Zebedee, James and John, asked Jesus if they could sit on his right and left when he comes into his kingdom. He told them that they did not know what they were asking. First, they would have to drink the same cup he was about to drink. They said they could do that. Then he said: You will indeed drink my cup, but this sitting down at my right hand and left is not mine to give, but it belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my Father
, (Mt 20:20-23). In other words, God is the one that chooses those who rule with his son in heaven.
The ball is in his court, and his choice can seem quite arbitrary from our standpoint. When Jesus had been amazed at the Roman army officer's faith he had said to those following him : With no one in Israel, have I found so great a faith. But I tell you that many from eastern parts and western parts will come and recline at the table of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens, whereas the sons of the kingdom will be thrown into the darkness outside. There is where their weeping and gnashing of their teeth will be
, (Mt 8:8-12). Another example was after Judas had killed himself and the disciples cast lots to see who would replace him and they chose Matthias to be the twelfth apostle, (Acts 1:26). But then God chose Saul/Paul to take the lead because the disciple-making work had come to a standstill, (Acts 5:12,13). Paul had hated the followers of Jesus and persecuted them, but he was the one chosen because he was needed. He bore Jesus's name to all the sons of Israel, the nations and to kings. And his work ensured that what Jesus had taught survived to our day, (Acts 9:1,15,16).
Those called to heaven during the sounding of the seventh trumpet are changed in the twinkling of an eye when they relinquish their flesh and blood bodies. And anyone who is sure they are going to heaven may be fooling themselves, the final selection is still pending. Jehovah knows whom he needs for the heavenly administration and chooses accordingly,