Revelation – Where we are in the stream of time​

[coccus ilicis]

Agape love;
Sol

Hello Sol,

I have already told you several times that I will only discuss the question regarding the Beast of Daniel and Revelation in the thread provided for that topic, see The Beast of Daniel and Revelation, post 1, here, which you have blithely ignored. And you continue to use this Revelation topic as the platform to voice your views with which most readers are already familiar. If you want me to reply to something you post here, then tell me how you see current world events fulfilling what is written in Revelation. There is no need to give us an 'A to Z' of what you believe, Let your 'Yes mean yes, and your 'No' mean no, for what is in excess of this is from the wicked one, (Mt 5:37). If you do not think that the slaughtered-healed head of Rev 13:3 is the modern-day state of Israel, tell the reader clearly and succinctly what you think it is, and why, so this question can be cleared up one step at a time. I am sure others would be interested in the final outcome of such a discussion.

[Get out of her]

Hello again CI:
I will endeavor to word this as lovingly and respectfully as possible.

I am not here to cow tow to anyone or otherwise be manipulated by them into conforming to a certain way they might prefer I engage in scriptural discussions. You and I have both been active members of this website for nearly six years now, and if you are indeed as familiar with my teachings as you claim to be, would this not mean you are also familiar with the scriptures and sound reasoning I have long been using to support them? So the question I would pose to you is—why exactly do you nonetheless continue endeavoring to teach your brothers and sisters things that I continue to clearly demonstrate in MANY different ways as being out of harmony with God's word?

In other words, I am already rather familiar with your input on this website as well, and (as respectfully as I can) if it was actually your scriptural knowledge and understanding that I was interested in here, would I not have begun reading your posts on this thread several month ago when you initially authored it? The reason I am currently posting on this thread is because when I finally began reading it I found not only exactly what I expected, but even much worse on this occasion; namely a rather strong indication that far too many people were actually taking your input on this topic seriously. I'm sorry but this is extremely alarming, and I both can and will continue to demonstrate this as factual with the scriptures as long as Jehovah allows me to! (2 Cor 10:4, 5)

With as much love and respect as I can possibly muster, I have been demonstrating with the scriptures for years now that basically the only input on scriptural topics that should be coming from you personally should be in the form of questions. Moreover if it were truly the SCRIPTURAL answers to questions such as --what precise entity ended up filling the role of ----"the slaughtered head of Revelation 13:3" that you were actually interested in, would I not have every reason to believe you would have NEVER made the claim that is was "the modern day state of Israel"? The fact is for several years now I have been demonstrating with the scriptures that this symbolic spiritual language is simply another way of representing the following:

Just as a closer consideration of the context and its accompanying references will reveal, after the seventh head or "king" of this "wild beast" in Revelation 13 would break the holy covenant and experience the spiritual death that is always associated with it, this "death stroke" would subsequently "be healed" in the following manner: This would occur in the sense that the mere hollow reflection or "IMAGE" of this "wild beast" (which on this unusual occasion was CREATED by this apostasy) would afterwards continue to exist for a time. This would be the case even if it's "rulership" or ruling authority would be "taken away" after merely "ONE HOUR" of its existence, as if the seventh head had "received a death stroke" but then was "healed," or otherwise that even a kind of "eighth king" would in some sense actually "spring from the seven" as a result of the spiritual unfaithfulness we read about in verses like Revelation 13:7-15. (Re 13:1-3 14, 15 17:12) Compare (Da 7:12)

The reason that we find the Apostle John considering this "death stroke" and subsequent "healing" of one of the seven heads in the THIRTEENTH Chapter of Revelation RATHER than the 17th, is because what we are considering in Chapter 17 is a symbolic representation of precisely what EMERGED from the "death stroke" spoken of here. It is precisely what "SPRUNG" from or what was BORN from the spiritually adulterous (or even "harlotrous") relations involved in a broken holy marriage covenant. It is the final symbolic representation of the figurative "DAUGHTER" (Re 13:11, 12) or even "DAUGHTERS" (Re 13:11, 12 AND 17:3) that are ALWAYS born from these illicit spiritual relations. (Jer 8:11) (Eze 23:1-4) (Isa 1:21) And just as is ALWAYS the case when this occurs, a horrific "breakdown" of these "daughters" followed by an immanent destruction at the hands of Jehovah himself is now inevitable for these "daughters" which in this setting of yet another spiritual "fall" of Jehovah's nation is actually a COMPOSITE representation of the "great harlot" or "disgusting thing/"antichrist" etc. (Re 17:15-17 18:2, 4)

It should be exceedingly apparent that a broken holy covenant or spiritual "DEATH" of Jehovah's nation does not give rise to ANY manifestation of Israel! Quite to the contrary this spiritual "harlotry" is exactly what always "destroys" it. (1 Cor 3:16, 17 6:15, 16) How much more so therefore in the case of the very ANTITHESIS of Jehovah's power and authority that continues to be witnessed in the form of the nation state born in 1948?

Agape love;
Sol

[Get out of her]

Getting back now to these two pivotal events I refer to at the end of post #130:

I have already touched on these two key events that immediately followed the foretold spiritual fall of the seventh king mentioned here in Revelation. (Re 17:10) My intention at the moment is to demonstrate that elaborating on them in light of recent secular history will serve not only to confirm their legitimacy, but also to make our exact position in the stream of time all the more apparent in relation to these prophesies of Revelation.

While satan would of course always recognize a spiritual conquering of Jehovah's nation as a tremendous victory, it had actually been foretold millenniums in advance that this would be an unusually empty one, as it would immediately cut both ways. The scriptures reveal not only that satan would at this point lose the authority over the earth that Jehovah temporarily granted him at the time of the rebellion in the Garden of Eden, (giving him an opportunity to prove his false claims), but also that he and his demon hordes would from this time forward be confined to the earth, with no place at all left for them in the heavens. (Lu 4:6-8) (Re 13:2) These two massive blows dealt to satan and his "seed" are precisely what is being covered in the prophetic words found not only at Daniel 7:12, but also at Revelation 11:15-17 12:7-9 and even to some extent at Chapter 17:12. As I have already pointed out, it is precisely this complete loss of all genuine authority and power over the earth that is being represented also with things like a sudden absence of "diadems" or crowns on the final foretold wild beast of Revelation. (Re 17:3) Compare (Re 13:1) With these things in mind, I would now pose the following questions:

While bearing in mind that this foretold 2,520 year period of the "gentile times" points to the year 1912 as when it would experience its completion, could we say that mankind has experienced perhaps even overwhelming evidence that prophesies such as there at Revelation 12:7-12 were indeed fulfilled at that time? Could we not say that almost immediately from this time forward mankind began experiencing catastrophes on a scale that would have seemed altogether unimaginable up until then? And could this tremendous degree of anger foretold on the part of satan not also largely account for why Jesus foretold the "great tribulation" or "pangs of distress" involved with the final foretold birth or "coming" of the holy nation to be something well beyond any previous ones? (Mt 24:21, 22)

Yes regardless of how thoroughly or effectively we have been conditioned to understand things differently by the torrential numbers of false ministers that ALWAYS emerge after another holy marriage covenant has been violated with spiritual adultery, these figurative "pangs of distress" upon a kind of "pregnant woman" actually begin the very moment that Jehovah's nation experiences a spiritual death by means of the "apostasy" spoken of in accounts like Daniel 11:30-32 and 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8. (1 Th 5:1-3) (Re 12:1, 2) But do we imagine for even one moment that if we have been completely deceived regarding the "great tribulation" that the same would not hold true for the "Armageddon" or "conclusion of a system of things/bowl of the anger of God" that it always culminates in? (Re 16:1, 16) (Mt 13:39) [NWT or otherwise refer to the koine Greek writings]

It is by no means another "great tribulation" we should currently be anticipating, but rather what ALWAYS causes the great "plagues" that result from a broken holy covenant to suddenly transition to something even much more tremendous and significant. This would be the very thing that was "typified" or symbolically pictured for us also in ancient Egypt as suddenly transforming what up until then were MERELY "plagues" upon Jehovah's enemies to what would now comprise an outright annihilation of them! (Ex 12:5-7) (He 8:5 9:16-18, 26-28) (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12 12:5 14:15, 16) But especially in view of the ways in which we have all long been deceived and misled on these topics, likely the most important thing for us to understand here is that just as was demonstrated for us also after the renewal of the kingdom covenant in the first century, this "bowl of the anger of God" upon Jehovah's enemies always coincides also with a renewed PUBLIC ministry. And this is a ministry that actually WILL begin producing genuine salvation for repentant ones. This is because IT ITSELF is finally once again legitimate or genuine, just as its ministers will once again be! (Mt 28:18-20) (Da 12:3) But let's not stray too far from the specific topic at hand.

The point here is that the deeper we dig into the scriptures and particularly while comparing the way in which even recent secular history continues to confirm the truth and accuracy of its prophesies, the more this should help us in turn to confirm and pinpoint precisely where we currently find ours in relation to them. While it should already be recognized as extremely obvious that we currently find ourselves in a time frame that is even well beyond the "fall" of the "seventh king" both spiritually and literally, here are a few questions I would pose that should help us narrow down our precise setting even much further:


Should not the increasingly ominous geopolitical and economic conditions the entire earth is currently experiencing ALONE or in and of itself not serve as overwhelming evidence that we at this point are even EXTREMELY close to the priestly blood atonement or "reaping"/"harvest of the firstfruits" foretold to usher in the long anticipated Millennial Reign? (Re 14:15, 16)

But if this by itself would not seem incredibly compelling to us, how about the additional fact that our presence here at a scriptural or spiritual forum such as this one we currently find ourselves at is actually found among the prophesies that immediately precede this final foretold "inauguration" of a renewed holy covenant?
Yes, could any of us NOT claim that we are here in this rather isolated or "wilderness" type of setting for the reason that we have "caught sight" of what is once again a very "disgusting" spiritual condition of organized religion? (Mt 24:15, 16) (Re 12:6, 14) (Da 11:30-32)

Was the exodus or "separation" we attempted (and hopefully PERFORMED ultimately) NOT for the reason that we finally to some degree or other "caught sight" of the fact that a kind of "great harlot" was once again occupying a "place" that we always up until then had recognized as "holy"? (2 Cor 6:17) (Re 17:6)

Was it NOT a keen desire on our part to feel as if we were NO LONGER sitting directly in front of the "face of the serpent" that moved us to in effect "fly to the wilderness" in search of GENUINE spiritual food or "feeding"? (Re 12:14)


But if we would desire to narrow down the prophetic time frame we currently find ourselves in perhaps even to essentially the precise MOMENT prior to the final foretold "birth of the barren woman," (Jer 15:9) I would strongly suggest we give some prayerful consideration to just a few additional things. Beginning with my next post, my intention is to pick up this discussion with some final points and questions we would undoubtedly do well to seriously ponder in connection with this.

Agape love;
Sol

[AmosAU]

SOL,

It appears that you are now right out of control. You have very successfully highjacked this thread to further spread your unfounded and misinformed doctrines.

You go round and round quoting scriptures that you then take out of context to further try to bolster your false teachings.

Amos.

[coccus ilicis]

Hello again CI:
I will endeavor to word this as lovingly and respectfully as possible.

Just as a closer consideration of the context and its accompanying references will reveal, after the seventh head or "king" of this "wild beast" in Revelation 13 would break the holy covenant and experience the spiritual death that is always associated with it, this "death stroke" would subsequently "be healed" in the following manner: This would occur in the sense that the mere hollow reflection or "IMAGE" of this "wild beast" (which on this unusual occasion was CREATED by this apostasy) would afterwards continue to exist for a time. This would be the case even if it's "rulership" or ruling authority would be "taken away" after merely "ONE HOUR" of its existence, as if the seventh head had "received a death stroke" but then was "healed," or otherwise that even a kind of "eighth king" would in some sense actually "spring from the seven" as a result of the spiritual unfaithfulness we read about in verses like Revelation 13:7-15. (Re 13:1-3 14, 15 17:12) Compare (Da 7:12)
...
The reason that we find the Apostle John considering this "death stroke" and subsequent "healing" of one of the seven heads in the THIRTEENTH Chapter of Revelation RATHER than the 17th, is because what we are considering in Chapter 17 is a symbolic representation of precisely what EMERGED from the "death stroke" spoken of here. It is precisely what "SPRUNG" from or what was BORN from the spiritually adulterous (or even "harlotrous") relations involved in a broken holy marriage covenant. It is the final symbolic representation of the figurative "DAUGHTER" (Re 13:11, 12) or even "DAUGHTERS" (Re 13:11, 12 AND 17:3) that are ALWAYS born from these illicit spiritual relations. (Jer 8:11) (Eze 23:1-4) (Isa 1:21) And just as is ALWAYS the case when this occurs, a horrific "breakdown" of these "daughters" followed by an immanent destruction at the hands of Jehovah himself is now inevitable for these "daughters" which in this setting of yet another spiritual "fall" of Jehovah's nation is actually a COMPOSITE representation of the "great harlot" or "disgusting thing/"antichrist" etc. (Re 17:15-17 18:2, 4)

Agape love;
Sol

Hello Sol,

I appreciate where you are coming from, you see yourself as a guardian of the belief and faith of others, (1Jhn 2:1). Whereas I see Jesus as quite capable of caring for those who love him, (Jhn 14:13).

Although you have, in your way, tried to answer my question as succinctly as possible, namely 'What is the slaughtered healed head of Revelation chapters 13 and 17.'

It should be exceedingly apparent that a broken holy covenant or spiritual "DEATH" of Jehovah's nation does not give rise to ANY manifestation of Israel! Quite to the contrary this spiritual "harlotry" is exactly what always "destroys" it. (1 Cor 3:16, 17 6:15, 16) How much more so therefore in the case of the very ANTITHESIS of Jehovah's power and authority that continues to be witnessed in the form of the nation state born in 1948?

You have told us what it is not, but not told us what it is.

Try again without referring to your vast knowledge of things concerning the covenants and harlotry, but just referring to the things John saw and heard, (Rev 1:1,2,3).

[Get out of her]

In other words CI:

While all of MANKIND currently refers to what in some sense was "healed" or restored from this "death stroke" of the final head of this "seventh headed wild beast" of Revelation 13 as the United Nations, (as I have already pointed out), it should be rather clear that JEHOVAH recognizes it as simply the final foretold expression of precisely what is explicitly written for us at Revelation 17:5. In order for us to fully comprehend this however (particularly in view of how we have always been misled), this would require us to CONTINUE to paying attention to what the scriptures clearly delineate to us.

In this case we might focus for the moment on how these "falls" spoken of here in connection with ALL of these "seven kings" or "heads" are identified in accounts like Revelation 18:2 as being comprised of the following: This is namely what ALWAYS transforms what is INITIALLY a form of "Babylon the Great" that Jehovah will not tolerate ANYONE taking credit for other than himself, into a VERSION of it that is now assigned NOT ONLY a much longer name, but even SEVERAL new identities. (Da 4:30-32) Compare (Re 17:3) Just as is clearly indicated by subsequent verses such as Revelation 17:6, these additional names include—"disgusting thing that causes desolation," "man of lawlessness," "antichrist," "son of destruction," and even the figurative "daughter" or even "DAUGHTERS" of "Jehovah's people." (Jer 8:11 23:1-4) These are namely the entities that are ALWAYS born from the SPIRITUAL "fall" or "harlotry" which in turn is identified as violating Jehovah's holy marriage covenant with spiritual adultery. (Da 11:30-32)

In other words when the "holy ones" or SHEPHERDING fold of Jehovah's nation (what was always "typified" symbolically and prophetically with the TWO TRIBE kingdom of ancient Judea) experiences this spiritual "fall" or "death stroke," it is suddenly much better described as a "TWO HORNED" entity that to unsuspecting people is now only "LIKE a lamb" or otherwise only APPEARS as a …"lamb of God that takes the sin away from the world." (Re 13:7) (Joh 1:29) It is as if a mere hollow reflection or "IMAGE" of itself has now been created that in reality "speaks as a dragon," and this is because the moment this spiritual "prostitution" or "fall" occurs, what WAS Jehovah's "holy place" or earthly "sanctuary" has now… "BECOME THE DWELLING PLACE OF DEMONS"…! (Re 13:11-14 18:2) Compare (Da 11:31) (2 Th 2:4) (Mt 24:15, 16) (1 Cor 6:15, 16) In turn when the "flock" or "Samaritan" facet of this now "despoiled" shepherding entity (which in this setting ALWAYS qualifies as a "flock meant for the KILLING" since in the absence of its earthly counterpart it is yet again on borrowed time) falls into this same spiritual "prostitution," what WAS more of a TEN TRIBE entity is now better described as like a "TEN HORNED" one affixed to a very "harlot"-like or even demonic representation! (Ge 48:19) (Zec 11:3-5, 7-11, 14-17) (Eze 23:1-4) (Da 7:7) (Re 17:3 18:2)

Yes just as the aforementioned scriptures point out, this counterfeit replacement Christ spoken of at Daniel 11:31 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 (the precise definition of "antichrist") (Strong's #473 #5547) has now succeeded in transforming what WAS an "Ephraimite" entity or otherwise people "OUT OF all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues" who HAD …"washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the lamb" into what is now merely "all the nations/ those who dwell on the earth" …their names …"NOT ONE of which stands written in the scroll of life"… until this broken covenant can be renewed and inaugurated yet again! (Ge 48:19) (Re 7:9, 14 13:7, 8) (He 9:16-18, 26-28) (Re 14:15, 16)

In other words ALL of the things we are considering here actually apply to ALL of the "kings" or "heads of the wild beast" found in these symbolic/prophetic chapters of Revelation, and ultimately in some form or other THROUGHOUT the Bible! Virtually NOTHING is really new or distinct until we get to the SEVENTH head, which is precisely why ONE of these "heads" is pictured as exactly that. (Re 13:3) However the ONLY thing that is actually new about this final head is the fact that the MANNER in which it is distinct is AMONG the things being used to confirm the end of the foretold 2,520 year period of the "appointed times of the nations." (Lu 21:24) Again, what exactly is this?

While bearing in mind that ANY cycle or "circuit" ends in precisely the manner in which it begins, this 2,520 year period of foreign "exile" that Jeremiah pinpoints as beginning in 609 BCE with the reign of "King Jehoiakim" BEGAN with precisely what we are considering in the symbolic spiritual language there at Revelation 13:7-15. (Jer 1:3) When the Anglo-American world power took it upon ITSELF to submit to or otherwise hand over its God given power and authority to what we now refer to as the United Nations and begin serving as merely a puppet king of it, it did PRECISELY what King Jehoiakim did with Pharaoh Necho of ancient Egypt! (2 Ki 23:34, 35)

What this means in the case of this seventh head of the "seven headed wild beast" of Revelation 13 is that at some point in the year 1912, the "death stroke" ITSELF that was experienced by this "seventh king" was also simultaneously COMPRISED of a kind of revival in the form of "HEALED" head, or even an "EIGHTH king" that "SPRUNG from the seven." (Re 17:10, 11) Let’s not forget that these "wild beasts we are considering THROUGHOUT the Bible are simultaneously being used to represent "Babylon the Great" in both a spiritually "standing" AND "fallen" condition. (Da 7:4) (Re 18:2) So even if this "healing" of a "death stroke" was not experienced in a SPIRITUAL sense, it nonetheless occurred in a LITERAL one. This is actually CONFIRMED by the fact that England and the U.S.A. CONTINUE ruling as kings RIGHT ALONG WITH the United Nations up until this very moment, and they CONTINUE "paying tax" or tribute to it! (2 Ki 23:35) If anything the emergence of this so called "nation state of Israel" in 1948 is merely among seemingly COUNTLESS proofs that this "healing" spoken of at Revelation 13:3 occurred ONLY in a literal sense!

Are you beginning to finally understand these things LRW?

Agape love;
Sol

[Get out of her]

Amos wrote:

SOL,

It appears that you are now right out of control. You have very successfully highjacked this thread to further spread your unfounded and misinformed doctrines.

You go round and round quoting scriptures that you then take out of context to further try to bolster your false teachings.

Here are a few things I would strongly encourage you to consider my dear brother Amos:

Firstly if it was the case that someone was genuinely able to establish and defend their assertions with the scriptures and sound logic, would it really even be possible to "successfully hijack" a thread they authored? If on the other hand it turns out they are NOT able to do so, then would it not ultimately be doing EVERYONE a service to actually turn the thread into a scriptural discussion that indeed WOULD prove helpful to people?

If you or ANYONE here genuinely believes that the points or claims CI was asserting are actually true and in line with God's word, then could it not rightfully be said that there is something they could do that is even VASTLY more beneficial than simply fielding complaints or even leveling accusations? Would such an approach really help anyone at all with coming to a more accurate knowledge of God's word?

As I have already stated just a few posts earlier, if ANYONE here truly believes I am wrong on even ONE point I am endeavoring to establish and defend as genuinely scriptural, PLEASE do even your UTMOST to help me realize that I am mistaken! This will only serve to bring myself and EVERYONE here closer to the truth of God's word, and I personally would feel ETERNALLY indebted to them! But understand in advance that this will require the use of the scriptures themselves along with sound reasoning as opposed to mere complaints and accusations, or even worse, the figurative "leaven of the Pharisees." (Mt 16:6) (Isa 8:20) (Rom 12:1) (Ac 17:11)

Now with that in mind, Jesus himself foretold that the final foretold "conclusion of a system of things" and it's corresponding "coming of the kingdom" would be immediately preceded with yet another ministry on the part of Jehovah's prophets towards what he described as some spiritually "sleepy" "virgins" and ""widows" of the prior holy marriage covenant. (Mt 24:37, 45 25:1, 2, 5, 10, 34-40) (La 1:1, 4) (Am 3:7) So what I would respectfully ask you to seriously consider in connection with this is the following:

Especially if Jehovah were to record the events involved with this particular ministry for posterity just as he has ALREADY done with several if not ALL the previous ones, just exactly where or otherwise what specific category would we imagine he would currently place us in personally? (Mt 25:40) (Lu 19:44) If the final foretold "harvest of the firstfruits" or "reaping" of Jehovah's true prophets foretold there at Revelation 14:15, 16 were to actually happen tomorrow for example, how do we imagine Jehovah would describe our personal interactions with his true prophets? Could we currently even recognize OURSELVES as among the ones who were continually producing irrefutable scriptural support for our teachings while at the same time exposing the lies and hypocrisy of organized religion like Jesus and John the Baptist did? or would we perhaps be better described as like the ones who were constantly leveling complaints and false accusations towards Jehovah's "faithful steward" while at the same time largely clinging to the same old false narrative? (Mt 24:45) Couldn't we agree that questions such as these would be well worth devoting some prayerful consideration towards my dear brother?

If you have indeed been reading over my posts on this thread, then you should be aware that I have already essentially admitted to "hijacking" this particular one, and doing so after basically restraining myself for nearly six years in my efforts to display love and respect for our dear sister CI. Clearly this approach does not work on everyone. I did indeed choose at some point to effectively rain all over this particular parade. But here is something I can absolutely assure you of my brother: The more time and effort you would TRULY and PRAYERFULLY expend at investigation my comments with the SCRIPTURES as opposed to mere …"teachings and commands of MEN as doctrine," the more you will come to appreciate that this particular thread was in desperate need of a THUNDERSTORM! (Mt 15:9)

Agape love;
Sol

[Stranger]

Here are a few things I would strongly encourage you to consider my dear brother Amos:

Big brother Amos didn't get here by accident I can assure you of that Sol.

A wise man once said "you go no place by accident". God is Sovereign over all creation and time is of the essence in His revealing that to mankind.

To tell you the truth Sol, whatever it is you are trying to preach and I know it's in your own way, you are not getting it across to anyone. It really seems to me that you have a missing element to catch anyone's attention with those very long winded posts, and that Element is none other than Jesus Christ the Lord and Savior of all mankind. Simple but True, it's the Element You yourself need to be saved. You are always talking about how everyone has been mislead but you are still being mislead by not shying away from your JW background and holding on to many of their teachings, mainly but not only, the one about Jesus playing second fiddle if he plays at all. (Shame on you.) (2Pet 1:20)


I'm sure Amos will respond and I know if Bobcat was still with us he most likely would have shut you down by now. I really wish you would respect everyone here but most of all I wish you would respect yourself and quit being so self centered and conceited, it's so obvious it's sickening (worse than spiritual vomit) and I know you are very familiar with that. (2Pet 2:22)



Stranger

[Get out of her]

Hello again Stranger:

Again I'm hoping you can explain or demonstrate in any manner whatsoever how these kinds of statements are not simply more of the same that I have received so far from either you or Amos. At least in the case of CI we seem to see some evidence that she is finally making an effort to actually think things through a bit more deeply and scripturally on this topic. (Ro 12:1) (Ac 17:11)

Once again if you are genuinely serious about overturning my points with the scriptures, than please begin to actually do so. I'm afraid the scriptures you cite here do not even begin to make your points or otherwise prove anything I have posted on this topic to be unscriptural. Frankly all I see so far is unsubstantiated accusations on your part. Worse yet they appear to be coming from a place of anger. Since neither your anger nor your line of reasoning makes any sense to me at all, I'm hoping you can do a much better job of helping me to understand either of them.

Agape love;
Sol

[Get out of her]

Getting back now to the discussion on Revelation and more specifically this issue of narrowing down the time fame we currently find ourselves in with regard to the prophesies even more precisely. To accomplish this we would undoubtedly do well to consider a few final questions. And since not only the prophesies of Jesus but even also the entire history of Jehovah's nation reveals that at least one or two genuine prophets always arrive on the earth to renew and inaugurate a holy kingdom covenant immediately prior to another full manifestation of Israel, (whether fleshly or spiritual) (Mt 24:37) (Am 3:7) (Ro 15:4) let's by all means start with the following:

Could we personally say that after performing this "flight" to a kind of spiritual "wilderness," we at some point did indeed begin to encounter scriptural teachings that met the criteria or fit the descriptions Jehovah ALWAYS assigns to them in these time periods? Did we at some point finally find ourselves considering explanations of the Holy Scriptures that stood out in a rather dramatic fashion from the mainstream narrative we have been hearing our entire lives or otherwise the very teachings we felt compelled to "flee" from in the first place? namely ones as ridiculous or even as blasphemous as the notion that this nation state of "Israel" that was founded in 1948 qualifies as one of the foretold "births of the barren woman" or "comings of the kingdom"? (Re 14:3) (Eze 33:31-33) (Jer 15:9) (Mt 6:10) Could we possibly claim that while perhaps even many of these teachings which appear like an altogether "new song" might also seem as rather distasteful to us, they nonetheless could be verified as scriptural, and therefore that actually following them would be much like "entering into the NARROW gate"… that Jesus spoke of? the one to the …"narrow and cramped road that leads to life"… as opposed to …"the broad and spacious road that leads off into destruction"? (Joh 6:60, 66) (Mt 7:13, 14)

Yes the scriptures make it very clear that in a setting in which even the anointed ones have been exposed basically to NOTHING BUT spiritual "vomit" or "expressions inspired by demons" their entire lives, the TRUE teachings of God's word that would now emerge from the mouths of his prophets would generally be recognized as rather unpalatable. (Isa 28:8) (Re 16:13) (Joh 6:60) (Mt 23:37-39) And this is regardless of how easily or effectively these "appointed slaves" could demonstrate them as scriptural. (Mt 24:45) In the case of even ANOINTED ones who would nonetheless in these time frames actually qualify as spiritually "sleeping virgins" and "widows" of the spiritual "divorce" or even death that placed them in this predicament to begin with, the ENTIRE HISTORY of Jehovah's nation reveals things like the following:

Even in the case of the ones who CHOOSE to make themselves "disciples" of Jehovah's true prophets, nearly all of them would ultimately reject what they have to share. (Joh 6:66) (Mt 22:14) Nevertheless if we personally are among the foretold "few" of the anointed "virgins" who happen to recognize the above things as actually true and scriptural, then REGARDLESS of whether or not we decide to pay heed to them, we ourselves have just managed to pinpoint even the precise MOMENT we currently find ourselves in with respect to the prophesies or even timeline of Revelation. What exactly is this?

This would be the point in time IMMEDIATELY prior to what we encounter at Revelation 14:14-20. Once again what we are reading here is a symbolic representation of the final foretold "harvest of the firstfruits" (a LITERAL priestly/fleshly sacrifice and subsequent resurrection to heaven of Jehovah's true prophet/prophets for the purpose of "inaugurating" a renewed holy kingdom/marriage covenant) which in turn is ALWAYS followed with a GENERAL harvest or SECONDARY "reaping of the earth." (He 9:16-18, 26-28) We would do very well to appreciate that what will once again qualify as a MASS exodus out of …"what in a SPIRITUAL sense is called "Sodom and Egypt"…is made possible for the reason that this renewed covenant always serves as an "ARK of the covenant," or otherwise precisely what was "typified" also with the "ark" that furnished salvation during the great flood in the days of Noah. (Re 11:8) (Mt 24:37-39) (Nu 10:33) (He 8:5) In the case of Noah's ark the humans aboard it represented the "little flock" of Jehovah's appointed shepherds while the much greater number of animals represented THEIR "flock" or otherwise the "great crowd of OTHER sheep" that this now GENUINELY Jewish entity will shepherd over for the final foretold time. (Lu 12:32) (Joh 10:16) (Re 7:9)

In other words just as was demonstrated for us with what was actually the FIFTH foretold "birth of the (figurative) barren woman" that occurred in the early part of the first century, (33 CE with the "blood inauguration" of the renewed covenant found at Luke 22:28, 29), what the entire world of mankind is about to experience at ANY MOMENT now is not SIMPLY the massive destruction that is CLEARLY and INCREASINGLY looming over it already like an impending global deluge. At the very same time that ALL of Jehovah's enemies begin experiencing an outright annihilation, there will finally once again be a genuine PUBLIC ministry directed towards…"people of ALL the nations"…for the purpose of essentially gathering then into this renewed or rebuilt "ark of the COVENANT"! (Mt 28:18, 19) In the case of ALL the ones who are prepared to become GENUINE "disciples" of what will once again be GENUINE ministers of Jehovah, identifying these theocratic shepherds on this final foretold occasion will be even EASIER than it proved to be during the 65 or so years that such ones existed on the earth during the first century. This is because they will ALL be comprised of the "incorruptible and immortal" ministers the Apostle Paul spoke of at 1 Corinthians 15:51-53, or otherwise the ones that would "shine like the brightness of the expanse" and the "stars to time indefinite" mentioned at Daniel 12:3. Compare (Mt 24:27)

Agape love;
Sol