The Open Letter to e-Watchman follower(s)

[Sage Hill]

I feel extremely wary after everything I've been through. But I also feel like I need to to feel at home in some faith community. I've been praying for help in that area. I hope this will be that home.

Hi Sage,

Well the perks that come with this site can be very fulfilling, with all the spirited knowledge that abounds here, I hope you can feel at home here with your faith, I've been here over 4yrs and have never in the least felt wary of any one wanting to be in this neighborhood.

Welcome aboard!


Stranger, (Pr 27:10)

I do feel more comfortable here, like I can breath a sigh of relief. Many of the posts are very deep. Normally, that would be fascinating to me. But I am suffering from long Covid and I have cognitive problems due to that. Hopefully once I recover I'll be able to benefit more from the deeper posts and I'll be able to also participate more. There is nothing worse than losing your mind, believe me, especially if it used to be a good one.

[Stranger]

Many of the posts are very deep.

Hi Sage,

Yes, that's one of the perks I was talking about. (Jn 7:24 NLT)

I'm sorry to hear about your fight with long COVID-19 and I hope you get well soon. Keep praying to the Lord Jesus Christ and if you haven't been you should start. Don't let that cognition get in the way of getting in The WAY!. (Jn 14:6) Some say it's a fatal act of worship when you pray to Jesus, does that seem right to you? (Act 7:60) (Lu 23:34)


Stranger

[Sage Hill]

Many of the posts are very deep.

Hi Sage,

Yes, that's one of the perks I was talking about. (Jn 7:24 NLT)

I'm sorry to hear about your fight with long COVID-19 and I hope you get well soon. Keep praying to the Lord Jesus Christ and if you haven't been you should start. Don't let that cognition get in the way of getting in The WAY!. (Jn 14:6) Some say it's a fatal act of worship when you pray to Jesus, does that seem right to you? (Act 7:60) (Lu 23:34)


Stranger

I know that Stephen seems to have prayed to Jesus. I tried it very tentatively the other day. I'm still not sure about it because Jesus himself taught us to pray to the Father. That's what feels right to me.

[Proselytiser of Jah]

I know that Stephen seems to have prayed to Jesus. I tried it very tentatively the other day. I'm still not sure about it because Jesus himself taught us to pray to the Father. That's what feels right to me.

It does seem we can seemingly at least "talk" to Jesus. Paul did in one account, and it wasn't even a vision where he saw Jesus, but he petitioned to him.


Whether there is a "semantic" difference between "prayer and speech", I don't know, but if there is, I feel it would be via intent and how one "views" and honours the person they are speaking/praying to, ie; worship and devotion vs normal communication. I did open an topic here on the forum about it here:

viewtopic.php?t=5825

And I also have an article on my site

https://proselytiserofyah.wordpress.com ... do-i-pray/

[Stranger]

I tried it very tentatively the other day. I'm still not sure about it because Jesus himself taught us to pray to the Father. That's what feels right to me.

It does seem we can seemingly at least "talk" to Jesus. Paul did in one account, and it wasn't even a vision where he saw Jesus, but he petitioned to him.

If the spirit moves you let It groove you
Have confidence in Jesus Christ and trust His divinely appointed apostle Paul.

(Rom 8:14-15)
From the NET

14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are 17 the sons of God. 15 For you did not receive the spirit of slavery leading again to fear, 18 but you received the Spirit of adoption, 19 by whom 20 we cry, “Abba, 21 Father.”

Footnotes from the Net,

17 tn Grk “For as many as are being led by the Spirit of God, these are.”
18 tn Grk “slavery again to fear.”
19 tn The Greek term υἱοθεσία (huiothesia) was originally a legal technical term for adoption as a son with full rights of inheritance. BDAG 1024 s.v. notes, “a legal t.t. of ‘adoption’ of children, in our lit., i.e. in Paul, only in a transferred sense of a transcendent filial relationship between God and humans (with the legal aspect, not gender specificity, as major semantic component).”
20 tn Or “in that.”
21 sn This Aramaic word is found three times in the New Testament (Mark 14:36; Rom 8:15; Gal 4:6), and in each case is followed by its Greek equivalent, which is translated “father.” It is a term expressing warm affection and filial confidence. It has no perfect equivalent in English. It has passed into European languages as an ecclesiastical term, “abbot.” Over the past fifty years a lot has been written about this term and Jesus’ use of it. Joachim Jeremias argued that Jesus routinely addressed God using this Aramaic word, and he also noted this was a “child’s word,” leading many to conclude its modern equivalent was “Daddy.” This conclusion Jeremias soon modified (the term on occasion is used of an adult son addressing his father) but the simplistic equation of abba with “Daddy” is still heard in some circles today. Nevertheless, the term does express a high degree of closeness with reverence, and in addition to the family circle could be used by disciples of a much loved and revered teacher.
tn The term “Abba” is the Greek transliteration of the Aramaic אַבָּא (’abba’), literally meaning “my father” but taken over simply as “father,” used in prayer and in the family circle, and later taken over by the early Greek-speaking Christians (BDAG 1 s.v. ἀββα).

Stranger, (Matt 6:6 KJV)

[Sage Hill]

I know that Stephen seems to have prayed to Jesus. I tried it very tentatively the other day. I'm still not sure about it because Jesus himself taught us to pray to the Father. That's what feels right to me.

It does seem we can seemingly at least "talk" to Jesus. Paul did in one account, and it wasn't even a vision where he saw Jesus, but he petitioned to him.


Whether there is a "semantic" difference between "prayer and speech", I don't know, but if there is, I feel it would be via intent and how one "views" and honours the person they are speaking/praying to, ie; worship and devotion vs normal communication. I did open an topic here on the forum about it here:

viewtopic.php?t=5825

And I also have an article on my site

https://proselytiserofyah.wordpress.com ... do-i-pray/

Thank you! I will definitely take a look at those. This is important.

[Sage Hill]

If the spirit moves you let It groove you
Have confidence in Jesus Christ and trust His divinely appointed apostle Paul.

Thank you, yes. I understand that if the apostles saw fit to do it, we should be able to as well.

[Sage Hill]

I looked at that discussion. I really do think that Sol is correct. I feel pretty strongly that prayer belongs to Jehovah in the name of Jesus. It seems like the preponderance of scriptural support is for that conclusion. In my prayers to Jehovah, I do express my deep appreciation for Jesus and what he did for us, and I know Jesus knows what I'm saying and how I feel.

[Stranger]

I feel pretty strongly that prayer belongs to Jehovah in the name of Jesus. It seems like the preponderance of scriptural support is for that conclusion.

Hi Sage,

What I can tell you is that the apostle Paul has a different idea in mind. He puts the utmost importance on having Christ at one's top for spiritual authority. (1Cor 11:3) compare (1Cor 11:4) That's the way I see it too. There are many that feel the way you do and they have their groups for support along with the way they interpret scripture.(1Cor 10:4-5)


Stranger, (2Pet 1:20)

[RR144]

I have been going to Robert's forum for the past several months. My views are evolving and changing. I have just very recently woken up. I no longer agree with some of what he teaches and I'm sure that if I voiced that, I too would be banned. I don't like that feeling. It's the same dark feeling I get at the Kingdom Hall, knowing that if those people knew what I really believed, they would all shun me. Ever since last Summer I've been flopping around trying to get my bearings. It seems like most are here for good reasons, spiritual reasons. It's very hard to find that anywhere, as most ex-Jw's are all about moaning and complaining about their past in the organization with very little focus on anything spiritually upbuilding. I just barely landed here, but as far as I can see so far, it looks like this group may be different. I hope so. I know Eric's articles are very helpful.

Yeah, Robert tolerated me for a while, but he never wanted to engage me in conversation. I would make a comment about a verse or on one of his comments and he would just trash what I said, without countering it. The worst was if and when I make a comment that disagreed with what Robert said, his minions there would chime in, "that isn't what Robert teaches!" Well who the hell is Robert? He's not my prophet. "Did you read Robert's article?" Really?

As far as your comment on ex-JW's, I agree. I've been around the block, been on just about every xjw forum out there, from the 90s, and 2000s. Some of the people I knew in the 90s are still on those forums, and still whining and complaining about an organization they left 20, 30 years ago. I knew a guy who was DF'd 40 years ago and when you talk to him, he's still angry and bitter, as if it happened a week ago. Never got on with his life, just let the whole experience consume him.

I left in 2002, although I had been PIMO since 1985. IN those days my issues weren't so much with teachings, because I knew the leadership was made up of imperfect men, I believed the basics and kept what I didn't accept to myself. Most of the issues I had were personality conflicts. By 1990 I had amassed a huge spiritual library, I read everything I could get my hands on, and it was then when I woke up. But I stayed because of my wife, she was woke too, but the Witnesses were her life, her family were witnesses and she wasn't willing to lose them. Mine you I did research the old fashioned way. There was no internet, no google. We stayed, I stepped down, eventually became inactive, her mother wasn't happy, and she threw us out the house, so we moved 50 miles away and never went back to the hall. The elders attempted to meet with us but we just blew them off. I've been out 20 years, I don't give the Witnesses a second thought. Yeah, every so often I pop in and out of forums and I meet PIMO jw's and we'll chat, but that's it. IF you're happy as a JW, fine, good for you. If you're not, then get out and move on. It's your life, live it.

Too often, some leave or get kicked out and then need to replace it, so they look for something similiar, like Robert King, or others like him.

RR