The Millennial Maze

[lamesa]

We can all agree with this:

"I once heard someone define the millennium as a thousand-year period of time during which Christians fight over the proper interpretation of the book of Revelation. While amusing, that definition is obviously incorrect. Christians have been fighting over the proper interpretation of the book of Revelation for two thousand years. In all seriousness, however, all of the fighting has led some Christians to adopt despairingly a position they call panmillennialism (we don't know which view of the millennium is correct, but we know it will all pan out in the end).

"The word millennium refers to the "thousand years" mentioned in Revelation 20. Because this chapter is found in one of the most difficult books of the New Testament, its proper interpretation is disputed. As a result, there are four main views of the millennium held within the church today: historic premillennialism, dispensational premillennialism, amillennialism, and postmillennialism. The prefixes pre- and post- before the word millennium have to do with the timing of the second coming of Christ in relationship to the millennium itself. The term premillennialism refers to the belief that the Second Coming will occur before the millennium. The term postmillennialism refers to the belief that the second coming will occur after the millennium. Strictly speaking, amillennialism is a version of postmillennialism in this sense because amillennialists believe Christ's second coming will occur after the millennium. There are other differences that distinguish amillennialists from postmillennialists. An understanding of what proponents of each of these views have taught historically provides a helpful context for current discussions of Revelation 20."

https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/millennial-maze

[lamesa]

First, I wish to repeat what was stated in another thread. This is not a debate, merely a discussion for interest. Ultimately, we will know for sure after it all happens. (John 13:19 NIV): "I am telling you now before it happens, so that when it does happen you will believe that I am who I am."

Six times Rev. 20:1-7 mentions a period of "a thousand years." An angel binds Satan for "a thousand years" (vv. 1, 2). The result is that Satan cannot deceive the nations for "a thousand years" (v.3). John sees certain souls living and reigning with Christ "a thousand years" (vv. 4, 6). The rest of the dead lived not again until the "thousand years" were finished (v. 5). When the "thousand years" expire, Satan is loosed, deceives the nations, and makes war against the saints (vv. 7).

I believe all of this occurs between Christ's first coming and his last.

The problem with this is that it seems the Devil 'has' been deceiving the nations ever since the 1st century, through means of his false churches, world corruption, antichrists, men of lawlessness etc.

The 1000 years (whether literal or symbolic) happen when the first resurrection happens and Christ's chosen elect will rule with him 'upon' the Earth. The first resurrection is the raising of Christ's kings & priests, which is the same event of the rapture, meeting Jesus in the air, which is followed by the 1000 year reign of a physical presence of Jesus (as the scripture says "on" the Earth), which obviously we are still waiting for (which means everyone is still asleep in the grave, even the Apostles). This reign happens 'after' the first resurrection,a real physical resurrection out the grave, followed by a rapture, which will be witnessed by the whole world, and not before it.

Binding of the Devil:

Looking back at history, the devil was free to blind the "nations" until the first Gentile was called into the church (Acts. 10:3). Christ "bound" the devil so that the Gospel was "preached in all creation under heaven" (Col. 1:23).

Two Resurrections:

Rev. 20:4-6 mentions a “first resurrection” and of the “blessed and holy.” The second death (the lake of fire, Rev. 20:14) has no power over them. The first resurrection, then, is the raising of all believers. It corresponds with Jesus’ teaching of the “resurrection of the righteous” (Luke 14:14) and the “resurrection of life” (John 5:29).

Resurrection Body:

[The JW doctrine on two resurrection "hopes," one for spiritual bodies and another for fleshly bodies, is simply not in the Bible.]

"Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2).

This is another subject, but ultimately, the Bible's answer is simple: "what we will be has not yet been made known." Consider this: Jesus was fully man when he was transfigured, and he glowed in light. Even his clothes were glowing in light, brighter than the sun at noon-day. So, if "we shall be like him," oh my, it will be glorious!
Again, this answers to the question of whether we will live in heaven or on earth. Now that becomes less answerable, as we simply do not know yet. And think about it, why did Adam feel naked when he sinned? What about his body changed? Again, these are unanswerable questions. But this shows how little we know about what is to come.

So ultimately, none of this truly matters. What matter now is to repent and believe in Christ. This is the Gospel, the good news about Christ and the way of salvation. The key to understanding the Gospel is to know why it’s good news. To do that, we must learn we are sinners and need salvation. This seems simple, and it is, but how many are willing to admit that they sin? Most want to believe they are essentially OK, and better than others. But that's not how God sees us.

“Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. The Pharisee stood by himself and prayed: ‘God, I thank you that I am not like other people—robbers, evildoers, adulterers—or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week and give a tenth of all I get.’

“But the tax collector stood at a distance. He would not even look up to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, have mercy on me, a sinner.’

“I tell you that this man, rather than the other, went home justified before God. For all those who exalt themselves will be humbled, and those who humble themselves will be exalted.” (Luke 18:10-14).

I've learned to read the Bible in a whole new way. Rather than reading Revelation in order to figure out what might happen (as we read a weather forecast), it shows me that the Lord Jesus is on his throne and his timetable is perfect and on schedule, and we are forbidden from making forecasts:

"It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority (Acts. 1:7).

As an xjw, this is easy to accept because we've experienced the folly of charts and such.

[goghtherefore]

Thank you lamesa.

I enjoyed your post/presentation very much.

Regards,

goghtherefore

[Stranger]

So ultimately, none of this truly matters. What matter now is to repent and believe in Christ. This is the Gospel, the good news about Christ and the way of salvation. The key to understanding the Gospel is to know why it’s good news. To do that, we must learn we are sinners and need salvation. This seems simple, and it is, but how many are willing to admit that they sin? Most want to believe they are essentially OK, and better than others. But that's not how God sees us.

Hi lamesa,

You sound like you're talking about a point in one's life when they realize that the wages of sin is death and they better quit before payday.

I don't feel like it's a maze because I choose not to enter it's walls unless I know the gatekeeper and even then it's risky business when you dealing with ist's and ism's.

The Gospel, how much faith do you really have in it? Are you born again or still wondering? Does Jehovah and Jesus make you believe the Gospel is true, or is it Jesus Christ alone that flips your switch? Does Jehovah alone fulfill the Gospel (good news actually in this case) or what part does He play if any?

These are serious questions for self proclaimed born again Christians wanting to see the Kingdom of God. (Jn 3:3)


Stranger, (Jn 16:29 KJV)

[Proselytiser of Jah]

What matter now is to repent and believe in Christ. This is the Gospel, the good news about Christ and the way of salvation. The key to understanding the Gospel is to know why it’s good news. To do that, we must learn we are sinners and need salvation....

"It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority (Acts. 1:7).

I agree.

[lamesa]

The Gospel, how much faith do you really have in it? Are you born again or still wondering? Does Jehovah and Jesus make you believe the Gospel is true, or is it Jesus Christ alone that flips your switch? Does Jehovah alone fulfill the Gospel (good news actually in this case) or what part does He play if any?

These are serious questions for self proclaimed born again Christians wanting to see the Kingdom of God. (Jn 3:3)

Stranger, (Jn 16:29 KJV)

"The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, 'Who then can be saved?' Jesus looked at them and said, 'With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God.'”

Amazing grace! How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me!
I once was lost, but now am found;
Was blind, but now I see.
’Twas grace that taught my heart to fear, [repentance, turning away from sin] (Acts 3:19)
And grace my fears relieved; [forgiveness in the blood of Christ] (Acts 3:20)
How precious did that grace appear
The hour I first believed!

Through many dangers, toils and snares,
I have already come;
’Tis grace hath brought me safe thus far,
And grace will lead me home.

The Lord has promised good to me,
His Word my hope secures;
He will my Shield and Portion be,
As long as life endures.

Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess, within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow,
The sun forbear to shine;
But God, Who called me here below,
Will be forever mine.

When we’ve been there ten thousand years,
Bright shining as the sun,
We’ve no less days to sing God’s praise
Than when we’d first begun.

John Newton (1725-1807)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dmMm6upB5c