Bobcat replies:Most certainly beyond any doubt John 10:16 applies to the Samaritans and the Gentiles being brought into the fold along with Jewish Christians.
These comments were somewhat off topic for the thread that they were posted on and I could not find one that focuses on this scripture here in John; so particularly since I recognize John 10:16 as among the most important ones for us to understand at this point in time, I thought I would initiate a new thread on it.Agreed John. In fact, that post was right on the heels of a w10 3/15 study articles about Jn 10. I remember the frustration of their twisted reasoning.
I don't think it would bother me so much now. I've studied the passage and reached my own conclusions (much the same as your conclusions). So having reached what I view as a sound conclusion to the passage, WT's views are little more than their own opinions now. But back then, just coming awake, it was a bit different reaction.
I'm endeavoring to be mindful (Bobcat) of the suggestion you made to me recently about making my posts more conducive to open discussion. That may very well be good advice for me even if I'm not sure exactly how to go about taking it. So I thought I might begin by encouraging or inviting yourself and John S to actually put some effort into establishing this position of yours scripturally as opposed to simply stating it as such (and even rather dogmatically on John's part at least) if you wouldn't mind.
Of course I don't mean to exclude anyone else from sharing in the discussion if they would like. Perhaps it might make things easier if I were to start by posing the following questions, and if you have any more suggestions on how I might better encourage more discussion please don't hesitate to further elaborate:
How would you even go about defining a term like "Jewish Christians" from a scriptural standpoint, and what exactly would distinguish them from Samaritans and gentiles?
Since we are clearly dealing with the New Testament here in John 10:16 and its corresponding spiritual manifestation of what initially qualified as a "typical representation and shadow of the heavenly things," what exactly are you referring to when you use terms such as Samaritans or gentiles? (He 8:5 9:23)
In other words, how would you go about scripturally establishing the identity of a SPIRITUAL Samaritan or gentile, and its distinction from a spiritual Jew or Christian? (Or even "Jewish Christian"?) Moreover are you suggesting that Samaritans and gentiles are the same thing? If you are suggesting Samaritans and gentiles are NOT the same thing, how would you endeavor to delineate the difference between the two?