How I express my faith?

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FriendlyDoggo
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How I express my faith?

#1 Post by FriendlyDoggo » 1 month ago

This is a thing that I have thought since I leave the "truth", I want to say: "I'm christian!" but I worry about the listener start to search about and end stuck in one of the many denominations around (even JW) and pass through all painful path that we all passed, what I should do?
My english isn't very good, sorry any inconvenience.

apollos0fAlexandria
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Re: How I express my faith?

#2 Post by apollos0fAlexandria » 1 month ago

Hi FD,

I stressed about this a lot a while back.

And then I found I couldn't truly express my faith to anyone until I was taught the true meaning of Matt 7:20 (and the verses leading up). I don't mean taught in a theological sense. I mean taught by seeing and experiencing good fruit.

Since then the opportunities to express my faith have been numerous. I wish I'd taken every one of them, but I cannot in honesty say that I have. Nevertheless the times I have expressed my faith have opened doors I would never have anticipated. (And not by knocking lightly on them and leaving a tract.)

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Re: How I express my faith?

#3 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 1 month ago

Best way to express is just to "be" Christian. If someone of course asks if you have beliefs you can just say "I'm Christian" which includes morality, personality and of course expressing the word of Christ. Now of course just saying you're "Christian" may not get into the "specifics" but it's accurate, if labels do bother you though, you can say "non-denominational Christian".

I personally tend to go with the "Restorationist Christian" label, as it helps people know what I'm about more if they look up what Restorationism actually is. Obviously it has a few groups associated with the term (such as the JWs, Adventists, off shoot Bible Student groups, etc), but I like it as it helps distinguish me I feel from the mainstream churches, and has a "non-denominational" ring to it, but also informs that I may not have the beliefs of what people typically think of when they hear "Christian" (be it hellfire, soul, trinity etc), and I'm also not saying I'm "JW" or anything along those lines either when using the term.
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

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FriendlyDoggo
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Re: How I express my faith?

#4 Post by FriendlyDoggo » 1 month ago

Apollos - I'm sorry for make you remember that, thank you for the kind words.

PoJ - Thank you! I will think about those terms.
My english isn't very good, sorry any inconvenience.

Get out of her
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Re: How I express my faith?

#5 Post by Get out of her » 1 month ago

FD wrote:
This is a thing that I have thought since I leave the "truth", I want to say: "I'm christian!" but I worry about the listener start to search about and end stuck in one of the many denominations around (even JW) and pass through all painful path that we all passed, what I should do?
A very important question FD:

"Action speaks louder than words" as the old saying goes, and the fact that this statement is true makes me appreciate what Poj had to share with you on this issue. If we were to say ANYTHING, in my case I would recommend it be something like--"I strive to be Christ-like." This is because by a SCRIPTURAL definition of a Christian, genuine ones basically exist only when their nation does, and in our time period on this "seventh" foretold "time" or "birth of the barren woman" it will re-emerge with the advent of the Millennial Reign. (Da 4:23, 32) (1 Sa 2:5) (Jer 15:9) (Isa 54:1-4 66:7, 8)

In a setting of a broken kingdom covenant that always REQUIRES another of these foretold "births" or (as Paul puts it) "days of the Lord," it is only upon the arrival of the "two witnesses" or "presence of our Lord Jesus Christ" that genuine Christians once again exist on the earth. (2 Th 2:1-8) (Jer 46:10) (Da 11:30-32) So the question really then would be --what actions more specifically would in fact demonstrate that we are endeavoring to express genuine faith or even "repentance," and particularly in a setting in which we are yet again eagerly anticipating a foretold "birth" or return of God's nation due to yet another complete national "apostasy." (Mt 3:1, 2)

We very much need to understand that at least in the case of the anointed ones or "body of many members of the Christ," in one of these "seven" foretold post-apostasy/pre-kingdom settings in which ANY genuine ministry is RESTRICTED to Jesus' "brothers," ("the HOUSE or "sanctuary/temple" of Israel"), the scriptural answer to this question is not something that can be covered in merely one or two paragraphs. (Ro 12:4, 5) (1 Cor 12:12) (Mt 10:5, 6 25:40) (1 Cor 3:16, 17)

Perhaps the best scriptures to consider in connection with this question are ones like Matthew 24:15, 16, and 2 Corinthians 6:17. But as is always the case with the holy writings, they are written in symbolic spiritual language. Even if many passages APPEAR on the surface as rather simple and straightforward, the Bible itself identifies them as "carefully concealed sacred secrets" or even "hidden" spiritual "treasures." (Col 2:3) (Mt 13:10-12) (Pr 2:4) They were written in this manner to help the anointed "virgins" IDENTIFY the "two witnesses" that always arrive shortly before another manifestation of Israel, whether fleshly or spiritual. This is because these "appointed" "inspectors" or even "spies" of the anointed "virgins" are the only ones who can demonstrate a genuine and complete understanding of God's word. (Mt 24:45 25:1, 2) (Lu 19:44) (Jos 2:1) (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12) (Am 3:7)

The more closely and prayerfully we examine scriptures such as these, the more we will begin to realize things like the fact that passages like 2 Corinthians 6:17 are actually explaining or elaborating on what is being conveyed in the symbolic spiritual language of accounts like Matthew 24:15, 16 or even Revelation 18:2. In turn we will then soon be led to realize that this is all ultimately speaking about exactly what was demonstrated or us with examples like the disciples of John the Baptist and Jesus in the early part of the first century when they found themselves in the exact same setting we have discovered ourselves in also today. Yes their anointing began to help them "catch sight" of the fact that even in the case of the ONE true theocratic nation which HAD a form of true worship, they were for some reason now dealing with oppressive dictators working in tandem with FALSE religious leaders who only CONTRIBUTED to their oppressive and fraudulent behavior! (Mt 2:16) (Mr 12:38-40) We would do very well to understand that the years leading up to the death and resurrection of these particular "two witnesses" in the year 33 CE represented the EXACT same setting or prophetic time frame we find ourselves in yet again for the final foretold "time." (Da 4:23, 32) (Lu 21:24) (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12)

In other words, just like most if not all of us here on this website, the ones who ultimately became faithful disciples of John the Baptist and Jesus in the early part of the first century and thus succeeded in being accepted into the fifth foretold "marriage feast" or renewal of the broken kingdom covenant, this entire process BEGAN with "catching sight" of a very "disgusting thing" mentioned in accounts like Matthew 24:15, 16, "standing where it ought not." (Mt 25:1-10) (Lu 21:24 22:28, 29) (Mr 13:14) Even if all BUT "two witnesses" among the anointed "virgins" in these prophetic time frames would receive a relatively modest endowment of Jehovah's Holy Spirit (at least initially) which would make them much like a shepherd BOY as was illustrated for us with ancient King David, nonetheless "in the last days" of ANY of the foretold "conclusions of a system of things," the prophetic words found in accounts like Acts 2:17, 18 hold true. (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12) (Jos 2:1) (Lu 19:44) (Mt 13:39) Yes we want to understand that prophetic figures like the shepherd boy David or even the ancient Jonah or Job were actually used to "typify" or symbolically represent the ENTIRE "body of the Christ" in these prophetic time frames, both "foolish" and "discreet." (He 8:5) (1 Cor 12:12) This is why we read of BOTH forms of behavior on their parts. (He 8:5)

At the very least, what in these prophetic time frames is essentially a TRANSFER of holy spirit from a kind of apostate "King Saul" entity to a kind of shepherd BOY or "virgin" David entity is precisely what enables these newly anointed ones to soon "catch sight" of the fact that what WAS Jehovah's "sanctuary" or "holy place" is now being "terrorized" by "BAD" or even WICKED "spirits." (1 Sa 16:13, 14) (2 Th 2:1-8) (Da 11:30-32) (Re 18:2, 3) The LOSS of this priceless Holy Spirit and its commensurate "substitution" with a demonic occupation ("ANTI-Christ") (Strong's #473 #5547) means that even relatively well meaning ones among what WERE Jehovah's appointed shepherds now find themselves continually torn between wishing very much to hear the "new song played on the harps" of the newly anointed ones (who for the moment still reside among them innocently unaware of the tragedy that has already unfolded), and wanting to hurl a figurative "spear" at them with things like apostate labels and disfellowshippings. (Re 14:2-5) (1 Sa 19:9, 10)

Assuming what are actually "MANY" anointed "virgins" and "widows" in these post-apostasy/pre-kingdom time frames will ultimately prove to be among the "FEW" who demonstrate themselves as "faithful and discreet" as opposed to "foolish" or even "wicked and sluggish," they will now BEGIN their journey to the next foretold "marriage feast" (renewed marriage or kingdom covenant) with their heavenly "bridegroom" by obeying the FIRST divine command that is always issued to them the moment they "catch sight" of the extremely dire situation they have found themselves in. (Mt 22:14 24:15, 16 25:10) Just as was "typified" or illustrated prophetically and symbolically in MANY ways throughout the scriptures SUCH AS WITH the prophetic drama of ancient King David, this broken kingdom covenant means that if ones like Peter, James and John in the first century would yearn for Jehovah to once again "take them in" and begin recognizing them as his people, the FIRST thing they would need to do to express their faith is precisely what was illustrated next with ones like the ancient "virgin" or shepherd BOY David. (2 Cor 6:17b) What was this?

David soon "fled" or "ran away" (Mt 24:16) from what was now an "APOSTATE nation" for the reason that the spiritually unfaithful or even adulterous act of breaking the holy marriage covenant meant a "divorcing" on the part of Jehovah. (1 Sa 19:18) (Jer 3:8) (Isa 10:6 50:1) We very much need to understand however that this "sin of the priest that brings guiltiness upon the PEOPLE" always does something we should recognize as even much worse than transforming Israelites and Jews (whether fleshly or spiritual) into "people of the nations." (Le 4:3) (Re 13:7, 8) The spiritually immoral relations involved in this broken marriage covenant always results in a pregnancy and corresponding birth of a "DAUGHTER" or even "DAUGHTERS" of Jehovah's people that he describes as a "great" spiritual "prostitute" or "harlot." (Jer 8:11) (Isa 1:21) (Eze 23:1-4) (Re 17:1)

You see if we AFTER "catching sight" of the extremely dire situation that always results in basically "EVERY table" of spiritual food available to mankind being "full" of nothing but figurative "vomit" now CONTINUE attending church services or meetings and reading and even SHARING their "leavened" literature, we are now guilty of KNOWINGLY doing what the Apostle Paul spoke of in accounts like 1 Corinthians 10:20, 21. (Isa 28:8) (Mt 16:6) Even if we do so with the intent of mocking what is said in them in our discussions with our fellow anointed brothers and sisters, we obviously are not obeying the command to not even "TOUCH" these "unclean things." (2 Cor 6:17b) What is more, we have not even BEGUN to obey even the very FIRST command that is always issued to the anointed virgins" in these prophetic time frames!

Are we struggling to appreciate or even GRASP scriptural information like this and even when it is plainly laid out for us and demonstrated scripturally by one of Jehovah's prophets? Well if we have not so much as obeyed even the very FIRST divine command that is always issued to the anointed in these post-apostasy/pre-kingdom time frames, why would we EXPECT Jehovah to "open" our minds and hearts to actually understand it? (Ac 16:14) (Mt 13:11, 16:17) In fact why would we ever expect Jehovah to "take us in" and begin recognizing us as a Christian and thus even "saved" or "born again"? (2 Cor 6:17b)

Once again, the "apostasy" or broken kingdom covenant that always REQUIRES another or "presence of our Lord Jesus Christ" and its commensurate "coming of the kingdom" always DISQUALIFIES people as belonging to Jehovah or being part of his family. No Christian nation means --no CHRISTIANS! As a "DAUGHTER of Jehovah's people" who at best can now strive only to "discreetly" demonstrate herself as like the figurative repentant and cooperative "Rahab the prostitute" when encountering the "two spies" or "witnesses," for the moment there are only TWO PLACES or situations in which we currently exist in a "spiritual sense," depending on whether or not we have "fled to the mountains." (Jer 8:11) This is either a kind of spiritual "wilderness" or otherwise directly inside a "fallen" form of "Babylon the Great!" (Eze 23:1-4) (Jer 8:11) (Jos 2:1, 14-16) (Re 18:2)

The PLACE in which the "two witnesses" will once again be "impaled" and "called to heaven" to inaugurate a renewed kingdom covenant after their ministry or "prophesying" is NEVER what is represented symbolically by Jerusalem, namely a holy "covenant" in good standing with Jehovah. (Ga 4:24-26) (Re 11:3, 7, 8, 11, 12) While we (for example) in a LITERAL sense know EXACTLY where John the Baptist and Jesus were when they performed their priestly sacrifice, the scriptures make it perfectly clear that in a "SPIRITUAL sense" they were in "SODOM AND EGYPT"! (Re 11:8) (Mt 2:15) Their humble and repentant ACKNOWLEDGMENT of that fact is precisely what compelled John the Baptist and Jesus to recognize their ministry to their fellow anointed ones as like offering up their dead "CARCASSES" to "unclean" or even "loathsome" "eagles" in the wilderness. (Mt 24:28) (Le 11:13) (Joh 6:53) (Re 12:14) They took the LEAD in humbly and repentantly accepting full responsibility for the spiritual adultery involved in the broken holy covenant in order that BY MEANS of their death or priestly sacrifice, this "guiltiness" could be REMOVED from the "people." (Le 4:3, 10) (Isa 53:8-10)

Yes in a setting in which we are once again ANTICIPATING and even PRAYING for another "coming of the kingdom," we are ANYTHING BUT spiritual Israelites or Jews. A broken kingdom covenant compels Jehovah to recognize us more like spiritual "SODOMITES"! If we wish to now express our faith or otherwise demonstrate "REPENTANCE" for this spiritual "harlotry," once again we basically do so by obeying the very same commands that were issued to "Rahab the prostitute" by "two spies" whose "souls were to die INSTEAD of you people." Rest assured it was no coincidence that this all occurred in a "GREAT CITY" that was soon to experience outright destruction at the hands of Jehovah immediately prior to people entering into a kind of "Promised Land" or "New World." (Isa 1:21) (Mt 3:1, 2) (Re 17:1, 18) (Jos 2:1, 14)

What we are considering in accounts like Matthew 24:15, 16 or 2 Corinthians 6:17 is simply two of NUMEROUS ways the Holy Scriptures express the same commands issued to the "prostitute Rahab" shortly before she became wedded to a Judean prince that placed here in the genetic lineage leading to Jesus. (Mt 1:5) Yes this was simply another prophetic/symbolic representation of the renewing of the broken holy marriage covenant spoken of in accounts like Matthew 25:10, and since these scriptures were obviously prophetic even in the settings of 33, 55, and even 98 CE respectively, they apply also to OUR time period! (Rom 15:4) (Re 12:6, 14 18:4) As we can see in these same accounts however, we are dealing with MORE than simply the command to "get out from among" or even "flee" from what is now once again a great spiritual "harlot." (Isa 1:21) As opposed to simply "running away" from what a broken holy marriage covenant has once again transformed into a great spiritual "prostitute," we might notice there was a specific PLACE we were commanded to flee to. In the symbolic spiritual language of Matthew 24:15, 16 this place was identified as the "mountains." But what exactly is being conveyed by this symbolic expression?

Well even if we have altogether failed to observe a very consistent pattern of genuine theocratic authority and power being represented as mountain-like throughout the entire Bible, prophetic dramas such as the account of the "fleeing" of the shepherd boy David from the apostate King Saul are more than equipped to help us understand what is meant by this term in Matthew 24:16. (Da 2:35) (Ex 19:20)

Here in his same prophetic drama involving David "catching sight" of an apostate condition of what WAS Jehovah's nation; we find that this newly anointed "virgin" did not merely "flee" from this rather promiscuous "daughter of Jehovah's people." (Jer 8:11) (Eze 23:1-4) More specifically he was prophetically pictured as "running away" to someone he was able to recognize as one of Jehovah's PROPHETS! (1 Sa 19:18) Once again we can be certain it was no coincidence that Ramah was known as a mountainous area. This name literally MEANS--the heights, and in fact not only was the town of "Naioth" that Samuel and David shortly thereafter traveled to located IN these mountains, but it was known as a town OF Jehovah's prophets!

In other words, what we are considering here is simply yet another of MANY prophetic dramas or even EXAMPLES of what the anointed "virgins" must ALWAYS do to "express their faith" (as you say) or even "repentance" for an "apostasy" of Jehovah's nation or otherwise what is also identified as the "sin of the priest that brings guiltiness upon the PEOPLE." (Le 4:3) Rest assured it is no coincidence that this sin of a broken holy covenant represented here also in Leviticus as well as the community responsibility INVOLVED in it was symbolically "typified" in this same account as a sin that would require a "COMMUNION sacrifice." (Le 4:10) (He 8:5) Particularly in view of the endless stream of false teachings that always emerge "like frogs out of the mouth of the dragon, the wild beast and the false prophet" when this "apostasy" allows them to overthrow Jehovah's "sanctuary" or "temple" however, likely there is something even MORE important for us to grasp here! (Re 16:13) (Mt 15:9) What is this?

DO WE UNDERSTAND that this "prophesying" or ministry to Jesus' anointed "brothers" on the part of "two witnesses" or "appointed slaves" along with its priestly sacrifice or "killing" and subsequent "call to heaven" foretold also in 96 CE by the Apostle John is something the Holy Scriptures associate with ALL the foretold "births of the barren woman." (1 Sa 2:5) (Jer 15:9) (Isa 54:1-4 66:7, 8) (Mt 25:40) (Lu 22:28, 29) (He 9:16-18) This would most certainly include the Millennial Reign!

Yes just as the scriptures clearly point out, rather than an INDIVIDUAL or PERSON that we should be idolatrously worshiping, the "Christ" (which simply means-anointed) is a "body of MANY members," the more "discreet" of which will be performing priestly sacrifices until the time that Paul spoke of in 1 Corinthians 15:51-53. (Re 6:11 11:3, 7, 11, 12) What we are all experiencing RIGHT NOW is the ministry to "Christ's domestics" foretold for the "seventh" or "LAST trumpet." (Re 11:15) It will soon lead to the FINAL foretold birth or "coming" of God's kingdom in the form of the Millennial Reign and it will be the "LAST" due to the fact that (just as Paul says) ALL of the appointed theocratic shepherds involved in it will be "incorruptible and immortal" spirit beings who are now INCAPABLE of adulterously violating a renewed holy covenant. But are we now in a position to better UNDERSTAND exactly how we are to demonstrate our repentance or otherwise "discreetly" succeed "expressing our faith" and thus become included among the "few" who ultimately experience having the kingdom covenant renewed with them PERSONALLY by Jehovah's prophets or "two witnesses"? (Mt 22:14) (Lu 22:28, 29)

You see just as was demonstrated for us with examples like the "virgin" David or a "few" of the first century disciples of Jesus and John the Baptist, even if they like David KNEW that they had experienced an anointing, they did not pridefully and presumptuously or even "foolishly" begin conducting themselves as if THEY were one the "two" prophets Jehovah always sends to spiritually "sleeping virgins" in these time frames! (Mt 25:1, 2, 5, 10) On the other hand they also did not "wickedly" or even "sluggishly" in effect "hide" their anointing or figurative "talent/mina" in the ground" or "in a cloth." (Mt 25:26, 27) (Lu 19:20) No, they humbly and repentantly recognized that in comparison to the anointings of Holy Spirit that ones like Jesus and John the Baptist had received which were more like "ten" and "four" respectively in relation to their "one," and were thus more like "BANKERS" of holy spirit in relation to a figurative "depositor," they would do quite well to "deposit" THEMSELVES at the feet of these prophets as their disciples or students. (Mt 25:14-27) The REWARD they received for this expression of faith or humble "discretion" was an ADDITIONAL anointing, as if they had now been handed also a figurative "receptacle" of EXTRA "oil" for their spiritual "lamps," or even a kind of "INTEREST" for their figurative "deposits." (Mt 25:3, 4, 27)

Yes what Jesus was doing here in Matthew 25 and Luke 19 was prophetically typifying or illustrating for future times what had ALREADY occurred with a few of his more faithful disciples. In the case of the ones who were willing to "continually" follow him in both word AND actions, he had extended an invitation to JOIN him in his ministry to their fellow anointed "brothers." (Mr 3:13-15) (Mt 10:5, 6 25:40 16:24) This invitation came with a SECOND anointing that EQUIPPED them for this ministry and even gave them power and "authority to expel the DEMONS"! At this point in the case of the ones that now "stuck with" the "two witnesses" for the remainder of the tests and "trials," they would not only be rewarded by having the broken covenant renewed with them personally, but after its "inauguration" they would then receive even a THIRD anointing of Holy Spirit! (Joh 20:22) Even if this would prove to be a rather modest expression of Israel in comparison to the Millennial Reign, nevertheless for the next 65 or so years or otherwise until another "apostasy" would yet again substitute the Christ with the "antichrist" in Jehovah's "sanctuary," what were now APOSTLES as opposed to mere disciples would actually serve to some extent or other as RULERS in what would be the first foretold "birth" of SPIRITUAL Israel. (1 Joh 2:18) (2 Th 2:1-8) (Da 11:30-32) (Lu 22:28, 29) (1 Cor 3:16, 17) This theocratic kingdom was referred to with terms like the "kingdom of the son of his love," The Way," "Israel" and of course also "Christianity." (Col 1:13) (1 Pe 4:16) (Ac 9:2) (Gal 6:16)

We very much need to understand that it is ONLY the "barren woman" or even "daughter of Jehovah's people" that is EVER granted the privilege of sharing with Jehovah in "giving birth" to ANY of the "seven" foretold earthly expressions of his divine authority and power! (Isa 54:1-4) (1 Sa 2:5) (Jer 15:9) In other words, in stark contrast to what we read in accounts like Isaiah 47:8, 9, or Revelation 18:7, 8, the REPENTANT portion of the "great" spiritual "harlot" that desperately wishes to express faith in Jehovah PARTICULARLY in view of her spiritual uncleanness or figurative "leprosy" humbly ACKNOWLEDGES the fact that a broken kingdom covenant means she no longer HAS spiritual "children." (2 Ki 5:1, 10, 14) In other words if she is no longer a genuine shepherd she also no longer has any genuine sheep. In fact the spiritual adultery involved in this broken covenant means she no longer has even a heavenly "BRIDEGROOM"!; let alone a "queenly" position next to him on an earthy throne! (Re 18:7) (Mt 25:10) She is now a spiritual "WIDOW", and the loss of these marital relations means she is also a spiritual "VIRGIN"! If she is genuinely repentant over this situation she most certainly should begin ACTING like it! (Isa 47:1-5) What is now a "DAUGHTER OF THE CHALDEANS" most certainly does not "let her reproach be seen" by CONTINUING to conduct herself as if she still possessed the power and authority to teach and shepherd others with the Holy Scriptures. Are we beginning to better understand prophetic dramas such as the ministry of the ancient prophet Jonah to the CHALDEAN city of "NINEVEH" and the REPENTANT actions that were illustrated by its king? (Jon 3:6-10)

You see the things we are reading in scriptural accounts such as these are among a seemingly endless stream of various ways in which Jehovah has "typified" or symbolically illustrated the humble and repentant actions taken by a "few" faithful disciples of his prophets in the time frames immediately prior to another "coming" or manifestation of his kingdom on the earth. (Mt 22:14) (He 8:5) Whether it be the ministries of Ezekiel and Jeremiah in connection with the subsequent renewal of theocratic power and authority with Jehovah's "SERVANT Nebuchadrezzar" in ancient Babylon along with the prophet Daniel and his "three companions," the ministry of Haggai and Zechariah in connection with the rise of the "anointed shepherd" by the name of "Cyrus" in ancient Persia along with Esther and Mordecai, or that of John the Baptist and Jesus in connection with the 65 year reign of the "kingdom of the son of his love" that was born in 33 CE, there is ALWAYS "two" "faithful and prudent servants" or "witnesses" that arrive to spiritually "feed" and even "CLOTHE" what are mere anointed "virgins" and "widows" in these time frames. (Jer 25:9) (Isa 44:28 45:1) (Col 1:13) (Php 4:21-23) (Re 11:3) (Mt 24:45 25:34-40) There is an EXTREMELY significant distinction between Babylon the Great in a "STANDING" position verses a "FALLEN" one! (Da 7:4) (Re 18:2)

Are we continually endeavoring to teach the "truth" of God's word to others when we have not yet received the authority and power to do so by one of the two prophets Jehovah ALWAYS furnishes the anointed ones with in these time frames? (Am 3:7) Just exactly how does that make us any different from religious leaders like those in the Watchtower organization? (Isa 47:8) (Re 18:7, 8) On the other hand are we guilty of making no effort AT ALL in expressing faith or otherwise a desire to share in the work Jesus spoke prophetically about in accounts like Matthew 25:31-40? How then are we not proving ourselves exactly like the anointed "slave" Jesus spoke of in accounts like Matthew 25:24-30? If we happen to personally BE one of the two prophets Jehovah always sends to the anointed in the post-apostasy/pre-kingdom settings in which we once again find ourselves in, expressing genuine faith involves following the example of ones like Jesus and John the Baptist. Otherwise it involves following the examples of the "disciples" of theirs who were "faithful and discreet" enough to both IDENTIFY these prophets as such and then "stick with" them throughout the remainder of their tests and "trials." (Joh 1:35-41) (Lu 22:28, 29)

Agape love;
Sol

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FriendlyDoggo
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Re: How I express my faith?

#6 Post by FriendlyDoggo » 1 month ago

Thank you Sol, at first this "prophetic dramas" may sound weird, but it make some sense, especialy the comparison of raabe story with the two witnesses of revelation.

So, are you telling that there's no pure worship until the Lord comes?

Notice this, the harvest time starts after babylon's fall:
Revelation 14: 8 / Revelation 14:15
My english isn't very good, sorry any inconvenience.

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Re: How I express my faith?

#7 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 1 month ago

FriendlyDoggo wrote:
1 month ago


Notice this, the harvest time starts after babylon's fall:
Revelation 14: 8 / Revelation 14:15
I agree. I've noticed the parable of the wheat and the weeds says "the apostay will continue 'within' the congregation, amongst the wheat, until the END". WT interprets this "end" as 1914/1919 because "Jesus returned" invisible, but it then breaks so many other biblical doctrines. No, the wheat and the weeds are "still" togther right now and will be until Jesus 'really' returns.
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

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Re: How I express my faith?

#8 Post by Get out of her » 4 weeks ago

Absolutely! The problem here however is that in these foretold time frames in which Jehovah's prophets or "two witnesses" arrive to prepare the anointed "virgins" for yet another foretold "harvest" or "coming of God's kingdom," the entire earth by this time has among other things long been dealing with the situation Jesus spoke of in accounts like Matthew 15:9. An entire lifetime of nothing by "teachings and commands of MEN as doctrine" means that even in the case of the anointed ones, generally speaking they understand next to nothing about these foretold "harvests." That’s largely the very REASON for the arrival of Jehovah's prophets in these time periods immediately prior to another foretold birth of Jehovah's nation.

The foretold "seven births of the barren woman" (1 Sa 2:5) (Jer 15:9) in connection with the spiritual deaths and subsequent rebirths of God's kingdom that would occur in the time frame assigned to the "appointed times of the nations" (Lu 21:24) were also referred to throughout the scriptures with terms such as the following:

"Seven "strikings" or "chastisings of the shepherd" (Le 26:18, 24) (Mt 26:31)
"Seven baptisms" (2 Ki 5:10, 14) (Mt 3:11)
"Seven times" (Da 4:23, 32)
"Times" of foreign or even "Babylonian captivity and exile" (Jer 1:3)

So why then do we also find Jesus as well as his Apostles referring to this foretold phenomenon of spiritual cleansings and rebirths in connection with a foretold march of "seven kings" or even world powers also in terms of "plantings and harvests"? (Mt 9:37) (Ro 11:16) (1 Cor 15:23) (Re 14:15 17:9, 10)

This is because one of the very FIRST ways in which these foretold "apostasies" or broken and subsequently renewed kingdom covenants between Jehovah and repentant anointed ones that Jeremiah marked as beginning with the reign of ancient "King Jehoiakim" and the Babylonian world power that would take these more obedient ones into exile were prophetically "typified" or symbolically illustrated ALSO as seven "plantings and HARVESTS." (Ge 41:22-24) (Jer 1:3) (He 8:5)

Here in the Genesis account we find Jehovah's interpreting this dream of Pharaoh as even in some sense representing FOURTEEN "harvests" as opposed to "seven." The more we begin to compare this particular vision with all the other ways in which these foretold spiritual cleansings and rebirths of God's nation would unfold however, the more we begin to recognize that what "could not even be EATEN for it's badness" here is the very same thing that is being spoken of in accounts like Isaiah 28:8. On each of the foretold "seven" occasions in which Jehovah's nation would be overthrown with an "apostasy" on the part of its appointed earthly shepherds, an entirely different kind of cultivating work or ministry would begin in the fields of humanity. Even if the spiritual food that would result from it would come to be recognized by virtually every human being as "dainty bread" or even "delicacies of the king and his drinking wine," Jehovah and his prophets would see it only as death dealing "vomit" or even like "frogs coming from the mouth of the dragon, the wild beast and the false prophet." (Da 1:8 10:3) (Ps 141:4) (Re 16:13 18:14) (Mt 16:6)

Yes just as is ALWAYS the case in the prophetic time frames in which Jehovah's prophets appear on the earth to begin their "inspection" or "spying out " of the anointed "virgins," the fact is that NO religious organization currently on the earth INCLUDING the Watchtower Corporation understands or teaches ANYTHING of any real substance in connection with God's word, INCLUDING the "seven times" prophesy and the fact that it would involve "SEVEN" of these foretold "harvests." (Lu 19:44) (Jos 2:1) But this is ALWAYS the spiritual produce that is being harvested when the earth is experiencing the "presence" of the "ANTI-Christ" as opposed to the Christ. The fact is there is MUCH more to this scriptural phenomenon of the "seven times" or "seven births of the barren woman" than simply a foretold 2,520 year time span, and the TRUE teachings connected with it happen to be CRUCIAL for the anointed "virgins" to grasp in the foretold time frames in which the "two witnesses" would be endeavoring to prepare them for yet ANOTHER of these foretold "harvests." (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12) (Re 12:2, 5)

You see if people CONTINUED to qualify as belonging to Jehovah or otherwise as true worshipers of his AFTER his appointed spiritual shepherds have been "led into apostasy" and "left the holy covenant," then there of course would be no reason for them to begin following the instructions laid out in accounts like 2 Corinthians 6:17 in order for Jehovah to once again "take them in" as such. (Da 11:30-32) Was the Apostle Paul perhaps speaking to people in the Catholic Church or the like when he wrote the words here in 2 Corinthians? (Isa 1:21) The fact is he might as well have been since the appointed theocratic shepherds he had written to in this Corinthian congregation a year prior had altogether failed to heed his command to "remove" the appointed shepherds among them he now recognized as even "wicked." (1 Cor 5:13)

What we are considering here in 2 Corinthians 6:17 is a complete disbanding of the Corinthian Congregation in the year 55 or so CE. It was evidently the very first casualty of what Paul himself had repeatedly been warning his brothers and sisters about for several years already, and what the Apostle John officially announced as having transpired in full for the fifth foretold "time" around 4 decades later in 1 John 2:18. This was namely an "apostasy" that would (as Paul points out) position "A god" in the place where "THE God" had initially occupied. (2 Th 2:1-8) (1 Cor 3:16, 17) As the prophet Daniel or even Jesus himself Jesus worded it, a "disgusting thing" is now yet again "standing where it ought not." (Da 11:30-32) (Mr 13:14) Unless what NOW qualify as "people of the nations" as opposed to Israelites (since this covenant in good standing is always what QUALIFIES people as Spiritual Jews or Christians) would choose to CONTINUE "sacrificing to DEMONS" while they stand before the "face of the SERPENT" as opposed to that of Jehovah, they would do well to pay close attention to the commands now laid out in accounts like 2 Corinthians 6:17 and Matthew 24:15, 16. (1 Cor 10:20) (Re 12:14 18:4)

When it comes to what HAD BEEN up until this point a "continual sacrifice" or Christ in Jehovah's earthly "sanctuary" or "ark" of his salvation, we need to understand that this word -Christ simply means –anointed one. The term Christians by extension literally means—anointed ONES. This in turn means that in at least some sense the manner in which you and Poj are thinking is absolutely correct. Even AFTER this "apostasy" ones like Paul spoke of would unfold on a NATIONAL scale, there would still be anointed ones on the earth and therefore- Christians. It's just that the "spirit" that now envelops them is the "BAD spirit" that ancient prophets like Samuel spoke of, and this of course means that they are now counterfeit or FALSE Christians. (1 Sa 16:14) This is precisely the reason that in the very LAST inspired writings of the first century (as books of the Bible can only be written by TRUE Christians), we suddenly find the Apostle John speaking of the emergence or existence NOT of many Christs or Christians, but rather "many ANTI-Christs." (1 Joh 2:18) The literal definition of this term is PRECISELY what both the Prophet Daniel as well as the Apostle Paul laid out for us in Daniel 11:31 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4 respectively!

The illustration alone of how the apostate King Saul of ancient Judea would often yearn for the "new song played on the harp" of the newly anointed shepherd boy or "virgin" David after he himself had FORFEITED that particular anointing with his rebellion against Jehovah should help us to understand that even in MANY cases, this does not mean that these "many antichrists" in of THEMSELVES have bad motives or intentions. It is of course the demons or the "BAD spirit" now surrounding them that want figurative "spears" to be hurled at Jehovah's newly anointed ones. (1 Ch 25:3) (Re 14:2, 3 15:2) (1 Sa 16:14-16) Moreover let's not forget that the whole idea of a counterfeit is to appear as much as possible like the genuine article.

Yes the term antichrist literally means counterfeit or substitute/replacement Christ or anointing. (Strong's # 473 #5547) The "leaving" of this "holy covenant" which is also referred to as the "ARK of the covenant" means even the "DESTRUCTION" of the "sanctuary" or otherwise the very refuge or salvation of Jehovah that this holy "temple" as well as JERUSALEM ITSELF always represented in the first place. (1 Cor 3:16, 17) (Ga 4:24-26) We need to understand that we are considering SCRIPTURAL definitions of words here, which are of course the only ones that should matter to us. But even more importantly this destroyed "ark" should help us better appreciate why Jesus compared also the "harvest" and its corresponding "conclusion of A system of things" in connection with OUR time period with the "days of NOAH"! (Mt 24:37) Is this beginning to make more sense to us?

These "sanctuaries" of Jehovah's salvation must ALWAYS be reconstructed after the events ones like the Apostle John foretold in accounts like Revelation 13:7, 8. A spiritual "conquering" of the "holy ones" ALWAYS accomplishes precisely what Paul speaks of in 1 Corinthians 3:16, 17. As we can see here these "holy ones" actually COMPRISE the "ark" or "temple" of Jehovah's salvation. A destroyed "ark of the covenant" in turn means precisely the situation explicitly spelled out for us here in Relation 13:7, 8, namely, "NOT ONE" person on the earth at the moment is "found written in the scroll of life of the lamb who was slaughtered from the founding of the world." DO WE UNDERSTAND not only that these words were prophetic but also that they were written well AFTER the atoning sacrifice that occurred in 33 CE? This is actually PERFECT blood being poured out here because Jehovah can choose to "MAKE them clean" by applying the priceless value of the blood that had been poured out in 33 CE by their perfect "leader" or "foundation cornerstone." (Mt 8:2, 3) (Da 9:25) (1 Pe 2: 6) Just as Paul points out in 2 Thessalonians, this "apostasy" and the complete spiritual "destruction" or "desolation" it always accomplishes is precisely what REQUIRES another foretold "presence of our Lord Christ Jesus" and its accompanying "day of Jehovah" or what Jesus refers to as a "HARVEST" and "conclusion of A system of things." (Mt 13:39)

The moment we come to understand that "SEVEN births of the barren woman" would actually correspond with SEVEN "harvests" or "conclusions of A system of things" is the same moment we find ourselves in a better position to appreciate how accounts like Matthew 13:39 were actually rendered in the ancient koine Greek writings. As I have pointed out before the New World Translation (or at least the older versions as I am so angry about the 2013 edition that I refuse to even own one) is the only one I have encountered so far that renders an accurate translation of this Bible verse. When Jesus is speaking of the "seven" foretold "plantings and harvests" of God's kingdom that would unfold during the time of the foreign "seven kings" or "appointed times of the nations" also here in Matthew 13:39, "A conclusion of A system of things" would be a much more accurate way of translating what was written by the Apostles of the first century.

Just as was demonstrated for us also with the rise of the FIRST of these "seven kings" or world powers (namely the Babylonian one) that would become "servants" and even "anointed shepherds" of Jehovah and take the more repentant and obedient ones of a "faithful town" that had "BECOME a prostitute" into "captivity and exile" while placing newly appointed theocratic rulers over them like the prophet Daniel and his "three companions" or Jews like Esther and Mordecai (in the case of the Medo-Persian world power) instead of annihilating them outright with the REST of Jehovah's earthly enemies, Jesus here in Matthew 13:39 is not speaking merely of ONE of these foretold cycles or "circuits" of spiritual deaths and rebirths or "plantings and harvests" of his nation. (Re 17:9, 10) (Jer 25:9) (Isa 44:28 45:1) (Mt 10:23) He was ultimately speaking of ALL OF THEM, but most directly the one that was unfolding already at that very moment which would qualify as the FIFTH of these "seven" foretold "baptisms" or "fiery" spiritual cleansings and rebirths of the holy nation. (Mt 3:11) (Mal 3:2, 3) (2 Ki 5:10, 14)

You see the reason I included the account of Philippians 4:21, 22 in my last post was to help the brothers and sisters understand that there is ALWAYS a rise of another world power (even if it be the Millennial Reign) in connection with another foretold "coming of the kingdom" whose kings at least INITIALLY would be working in FULL HARMONY with what are once again TRUE or GENUINE Jews and Israelites, whether fleshly or spiritual. This would mean that by strict scriptural definition (Zec 11:14-17) (Ro 2:28, 29) in at least a SPIRITUAL sense they would qualify as Jews THEMSELVES until the time these "kings of the north" as spiritual LEADERS of Jehovah's people would "LEAD them into APOSTASY." (Da 11:32)

As the first century historian Flavius Josephus confirms for us, the year 33 or so CE marked the rise of the SECOND foretold manifestation of the Roman world power. What was essentially a massive CIVIL war that began around the time of the arrival of Jehovah's "two witnesses" (as would ALWAYS be the case) ended up bringing Jehovah's judgments upon the "WHOLE INHABITED EARTH" whether they be favorable or otherwise. (Re 3:10) This fifth foretold "harvest" or "conclusion of a system of things" ended up with the complete destruction of all that was left of apostate Judaism at the fortress of Masada in 74 CE. What CARRIED OUT these judgments of Jehovah was a "household of Caesar" that the first century Apostles could speak of in the manner found at Philippians 4:21, 22.

In other words in a setting of a RENEWED kingdom covenant we are dealing with "Babylon the Great" in spiritually "STANDING" condition (as opposed to a "fallen" one) with its "disgusting wings of an eagle PLUCKED OUT" and the "heart" of figurative "STONE" that a BROKEN holy covenant always instills in it "REMOVED" and replaced with a "heart of FLESH." (Lu 22:28:29) (Da 7:4 9:27) (Eze 11:19) (Le 11:13) (Re 12:14 18:2) The rendering out of Jehovah's judgments upon ALL the earth or ALL his enemies is largely what leaves the next foretold "king of the north" in the POSITION of being the next world power! This "conclusion of a system of things" that ALWAYS corresponds with another manifestation of TRUE worship on the earth is precisely what is being covered also in connection with the FIRST of these "seven" foretold "harvests" in Chapters 46-50 of Jeremiah. But are we understanding the point here?

On EVERY occasion that Jehovah's prophets or "two witnesses' arrive to perform another ministry to "Christ's domestics" to identify the more "discreet" among them for the purpose of renewing and inaugurating another broken kingdom covenant with them (or otherwise precisely what is being represented with the "marriage feast" in accounts like Matthew 25:10), this arrival of course means that TRUE worshipers of Jehovah once again exist on the earth. The spiritual "plantings" we are considering here in this symbolic illustration are not pointing merely to the spiritual DEATHS involved with these foretold "baptisms" or "strikings of the Shepherd." Scriptural accounts like 1 Corinthians 3:6 should help us understand they also point to true worshipers of Jehovah once again being installed on the earth. By the same token however, when it comes to the rebirths or spiritual RESURRECTIONS of God's nation which happen to be more associated with the "HARVEST" as opposed to the burial or "planting," accounts like 1 Corinthians 15:36-38 help us to appreciate that even the most CRITICAL PART of these spiritual resurrections would involve a LITERAL death, namely that of the "two witnesses." (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12) (He 9:16-18) Nevertheless, just as was demonstrated for us also during the ministries of John the Baptist and Jesus in the years leading UP to one of these foretold "harvests" or resurrections of Jehovah's nation, both "foolish" AND "discreet" spiritual "virgins" occupied the figurative "field" that was being ministered to at the time. (Joh 4:35) Even while they were yet again growing TOGETHER, Jesus made it perfectly clear in fact that the vast MAJORITY of the ones being ministered to in this particular "field" he identified as exclusively involving the anointed ones would in fact prove to be "weeds" as opposed to "wheat." (Mt 10:5, 6 22:14) But this brings us to yet ANOTHER extremely key facet of these foretold "harvests" we need to factor in here.

Just as Jesus himself made clear in accounts like Luke 12:32 and John 10:16, basically the entire PURPOSE of these foretold "harvests" or rebirths of genuine theocratic shepherding authority and power on the earth or otherwise specifically the portion of them identified as that of the "FIRSTFRUITS," is so that a GENERAL "harvest" can once again occur! The whole PURPOSE of the "holy ones" of the "FIRST resurrection" or "harvest," or otherwise a divine SHEPHERDING "fold" is to furnish Jehovah's "ark" or "sanctuary/temple" of his salvation for a "SHEEPFOLD"! (1 Cor 3:16, 17) The very MOMENT this "ark" of Jehovah's salvation is reconstructed with a renewed kingdom covenant between the "two witnesses" and the "discreet" ones among the anointed "virgins," we now begin dealing with a GENERAL harvest or otherwise what was typified symbolically with a MASS spiritual "exodus" out of "Egypt" as opposed to the one represented 40 years earlier with the departure of only Moses himself. (Mt 10:5, 6) Compare (Mt 28:18-20) Moses in this case symbolically represented the initial "fleeing" of merely the newly anointed "virgins" while Egypt on the other hand was used to symbolize "what in a SPIRITUAL sense is Sodom and Egypt, where their Lord was impaled." (Re 11:8)

On the FIFTH occasion of these foretold "seven times" or "harvests," we read about the GENERAL harvest or MASS exodus portion of them being officially announced at Matthew 28:18-20, and rest assured it is no coincidence that it commenced NOT MERELY with a renewed kingdom covenant, but also with the death and resurrections of John the Baptist and Jesus. (Lu 22:28, 29) (He 9:16-18) Just as is foretold for us however also in the "reaping" or "harvest" we are IMMEDIATELY facing in connection with the Millennial Reign, its SECONDARY portion or otherwise the MASS gathering into the reconstructed "ark" of Jehovah's salvation will as always coincide with a mass DESTRUCTION of all those who now REFUSE the offering of the "undeserved kindness" of Jehovah's "temple" or "sanctuary." (1 Cor 3:16, 17) This is precisely why in connection with this "last" or "seventh trumpet" we read of what is described as actually TWO "reapings" here in Revelation 14:15-20, and why the SECOND one is represented as extremely "bloody." (1 Cor 15:51-53) (Re 11:15)

Are we beginning to have a better understanding of these "harvests" the scriptures often speak of?

Agape love;
Sol

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