Christianity Without the Old Testament

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Erick
Posts: 229
Joined: 7 years ago

Christianity Without the Old Testament

#1 Post by Erick » 5 months ago

I'm wondering what others opine about this topic. I'm of the personal opinion that if Christianity wants to remain relevant in the long term it's going to have to stop using the Old Testament. As mankind's consciousness continues to grow it is becoming more and more self evident to many people that the God of the Old Testament acts in immoral ways. I'm not trying to be controversial here and I'm not stating that this should be self-evident to all people. I'm only stating the fact that many people have left Christianity because how God is portrayed in the Old Testament.

It is also becoming self-evident to many people that many of the stories found in the Old Testament are not true in a factual sense. Again this is not to say that all people should already recognize this.

My point is that the information found in the Old Testament no longer appeals to the majority of people in the developed democracies. If Christianity is to serve the needs of the people it has to be relevant to their daily life. The New Testament generally does this. The Old Testament does not.

There are many objections to this of course mainly that Jesus and the writers of the New Testament used the Old Testament. This of course is true. The Old Testament was revered by the Jews during Jesus' time. He would naturally use it but then go beyond it's teachings just as he did when he would say "You have heard it said to you...but I say to you..." If Jesus had lived in some other part of the world he would have also used the teachings the people already revered and then used them as a springboard to bring a higher teaching to the people. Therefore the Old Testament can safely be put to rest.

Stranger
Posts: 1897
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Christianity Without the Old Testament

#2 Post by Stranger » 5 months ago

Erick wrote:
5 months ago
As mankind's consciousness continues to grow it is becoming more and more self evident to many people that the God of the Old Testament acts in immoral ways.

Hi Erick,

Thanks for posting, it's interesting you feel this way, and I understand you are not alone but..........

I would have to disagree, what I see is that more and more people want to believe that's true, but not by any means self evident. A lot of people prefer the easy way out and forget they are hiding in their own eminence front or refuse to admit it.

Here's just one scripture that proves OT God is not immoral (Gen 1:27). If you take away the OT the NT comes without history behind it. The Word of God never changes or comes incomplete or without assurance of the Promise! (Heb 13:8)

I know the Gideon's print a NT with Psalms and Proverbs included, but in my opinion that's not Kosher. (Genuine and legitimate)


Stranger, (Jos 24:15 )

Orchid61
Posts: 564
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Christianity Without the Old Testament

#3 Post by Orchid61 » 5 months ago

The OT is the negative and the NT is the picture.
Without the negative there is no print.

Chapter 23 of Jeremiah warns if we do not listen to our Creator.

Because of the negligence of the false prophets, the people did not repent: "I did not send those prophets, yet they walked; I did not speak to them, yet they prophesied. But if they had stood in my counsel, they would have made my people hear my words, they would have made them return from their evil way and from the anger of their acts" (Jeremiah 23:21, 22).

Chapter 23 of Jeremiah warns if we do not listen to our Creator.

Stay true to the whole Bible 🐑🌷and the love for our Heavenly Father and our King Jesus.

Love Maria

Bobcat
Posts: 3302
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Christianity Without the Old Testament

#4 Post by Bobcat » 5 months ago

My personal opinion would also be that this is not feasible, that is, if one wanted to stay true to Christianity. For example, Jesus said that 'he who has seen [Jesus] has seen the father.' (Jn 14:8, 9) That would seem to rule out the idea that there was some real disparity between the personality of those two. The perception of some (or even many) may be that there is a great disparity between Jehovah and Jesus. But Jesus' words don't seem to agree with that.

As another example, the book of Revelation is chock full of allusions to OT prophecies (e.g. here). So much so that the book of Revelation would be effectively neutered without the OT.

That would be my opinion on the topic. I could see where dispensing with the OT would be a useful strategy in eventually dispensing with the whole Bible. The OT forms the foundation of the NT. So take away the foundation and the NT soon becomes meaningless.


Bobcat

Erick
Posts: 229
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Christianity Without the Old Testament

#5 Post by Erick » 5 months ago

Thank you all for your comments and I do see the difficulty there would be in giving up the OT. The OT has been with Christianity since the beginning. As the text mentioned by Stranger in Genesis shows, there are portions of the OT that will still resonate with the hearts of people today. Unfortunately there are other portions that do not.

I believe that Jesus' teachings form by far the most important part of Christianity. His teachings came forth in a certain context, within a certain culture, and during a specific time in history. However they are timeless. The same can not be said of other parts of the Bible, namely the OT. Although the OT does have certain timeless truths in it as shown by Stranger, it generally doesn't resonate with spiritual seekers of today. It was quoted by Jesus and other Bible writers because of the prominent position that it occupied during that time and place in history and the fact that it does contain some timeless truths.

If Jesus had traveled to ancient North America where there was no knowledge of the OT, he wouldn't have used it at all in his teachings. However his sermon on the mount would have remained the same. If there were well known teachings revered by the inhabitants of ancient North America that contained some timeless truths, he would have undoubtedly used them as a bridge to bring the people to his higher teachings just as he used the OT.

I would also agree with Bobcat that there is no great disparity between Jesus and his Father. The issue is how the Father (or Jehovah) is portrayed in the Old Testament. I do not believe that accurately represents how God is. It represents the view that people had of God at the time but not the reality. The view that God is some vindictive, controlling, rage-filled being in the sky does not resonate with what most people know in their hearts, so they leave Christianity.

Granted there are more accurate descriptions of God to be found also in the OT also but the negative portrayals of God are quite numerous. This is how most people thought of God at the time. A god that had to be appeased lest he wipe them off the face of the earth. Jesus began to correct this false image or idea of God that the people had.

AmosAu3
Posts: 440
Joined: 1 year ago

Re: Christianity Without the Old Testament

#6 Post by AmosAu3 » 5 months ago

Hi Erick,

I would first like to say that I was of the same mind as yourself, some 10 years ago. This was early in my real search for truth after exiting the WTS.
This didn't last long however. I was very soon brought back to the reality that ALL the truth we need to know was given on the OT (Tanach). This was the turning point in my life.

I would like to agree with the replies to you by other members of the forum, particularly Bobcat.

I'll add the following; as I understand the bible, the NT would make no sense at all without the OT (Tanach). The OT is the foundation for the NT. BUT, the complete OT rests on the Torah (Pentateuch), and the Torah has its foundation in Genesis. Genesis then has its foundation in the first 11 chapters. The entire rest of the complete bible is founded on Genesis 1 to 11.

The God of the OT is definitely NOT what modern western churchianity has pointed Him out to be. YHWH is not a harsh and unloving God. Any negative aspects attributed to YHWH has its foundation in the false western theology, particularly Rome. This theology had its roots in Simon the sorcerer who tried to buy the gifts of the spirit from the apostles, then went to Rome.

We and the western world, come from such a diverse cultural background to the eastern world of the bible. These 2 different cultures create a total opposite understanding of many of the events of bible times, particularly OT times.. For us to understand much of the OT (particularly), we simply must research the culture of the time the texts were written, and who they were written to. This takes time and patience, we are worlds apart from the OT times.

I hope this may help you.
Regards, Amos.

Stranger
Posts: 1897
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Christianity Without the Old Testament

#7 Post by Stranger » 5 months ago

Erick wrote:
5 months ago
If Jesus had traveled to ancient North America where there was no knowledge of the OT, he wouldn't have used it at all in his teachings. However his sermon on the mount would have remained the same. If there were well known teachings revered by the inhabitants of ancient North America that contained some timeless truths, he would have undoubtedly used them as a bridge to bring the people to his higher teachings just as he used the OT.
Hi Erick,

Jesus is the Lord of - and the Lord above - all language. He could have been sent anywhere in the World and not have any problem communicating with the inhabitants of any Land. But His main objective was to reach the man who lorded his own language over the whole World. (Lu 2:1 KJV)
Erick wrote:
5 months ago
The issue is how the Father (or Jehovah) is portrayed in the Old Testament. I do not believe that accurately represents how God is. It represents the view that people had of God at the time but not the reality. The view that God is some vindictive, controlling, rage-filled being in the sky does not resonate with what most people know in their hearts, so they leave Christianity.
Ask yourself, What does the OT offer to Christianity today?

Here's a some answers I believe to be true:

The OT protects the NT's distinctiveness from becoming diluted.

The whole OT is honest in a way that many Christians are not.

I need useful material to back up an argument, this I know. And I have been moved by the Spirit not to pit Jesus against the OT God. "Divine Oneness" is missed whenever Christians do this. (Isa 55:10,11)

If you don't have "legal experience" , it wise to seek "expert guidance". (Ps 48:13-14)


Stranger, (Rev 4:11) compare (Isa 45:7)

"Lonely is the night when you find yourself alone"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5TaeDhPUQQ

Dajo1
Posts: 343
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Christianity Without the Old Testament

#8 Post by Dajo1 » 5 months ago

Thank you Erick,

I’m a human. You are a human. (Some might say “there’s an assumption right there!”

As a premise, let’s assume that’s true. (You human. Me human)

We cross paths. What happens? (A book could be written from here.)

Scenario 1. Enter Jesus Christ. (Not literally). One human has learned from him.

Scenario 2. Both humans have learned from him.

Jesus finished it.

We choose the outcome. However the OT will always be there for those who need/want it. It is necessary.

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