I have dilemma.

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Dajo1
Posts: 343
Joined: 5 years ago

I have dilemma.

#1 Post by Dajo1 » 6 months ago

Back around the very early 1980's I brought a Commodore 64 computer (with the excuse that it was for my 2 kids). We also became JWs that year
When Watchtower produced their first CD rom back in 1995 and had the first WT Library Disc on CD .. Yaah! I had a real good reason to buy my first PC. It was a
Windows 3.1 machine 386 with 4 mb onboard RAM. I bought it from a mail order company and they sent 2 computers! The other was a 486 and I informed them about the mistake. However (Happily!) they never picked it up so that was my start of building, fixing setting PCs up for bro and sis. etc I'm sure many here can relate to my story.

Watchtower then went internet - watchtower.org ?? and so on.

There was a kind of in between time about how evil the internet is/was and so on. I regularly inserted comments into my public talks about the dangers of screens. At that time we were bring up 2 teenage boys - I could see then the influence of SCREENS. TV screens, video screens, nintendo screens, other portable screens. Computer screens and cell phone screens. Now smart phone screens and screens every where. I was fascinated by the thing that uses light pixels and it's influence. Light enters the eye. images are really really strong and moving images even more so.

Then of course Watchtower has gon full on internet, video and audio Technology

Over the past couple of years I have seriously considered on many occasions to totally ditch any connected accounts I have.
Why? I don't know. It is a hunch. A gut feeling if you like.
I have become increasingly concerned about the absolutely amount of contradictory and confronting, confusing cacophony of information. I have floated the idea here gently about Babylon the Great. I have always questioned about it being non JW religion. I still feel BTG could be:
The Media.
The flatforms the media use.
social media.
The internet.

I have not expressed this anywhere else but here and I know you kind lot will gently and kindly regulate my thoughts on this.That's why I write this here. You're such a kindly lot!

Not so long ago we all talked face to face. We discerned inflections in the face of the person we were talking with. we saw a raised eyebrow. We could get the "feel" of what they were saying - even if they couldn't verbalize it.

That's gone now.

I have been inspired, probably not the right word... I have been motivated to write this because I have just finished watching a documentary.
"The Social Dilemma"

In my country it is on Netflix. It is worth a look.

Love to you all.







of

This is wher

Anyways why am I w

Phoebe
Posts: 950
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: I have dilemma.

#2 Post by Phoebe » 6 months ago

Hi Dajo,

I resubscribed to Netflix a couple of weeks ago....and have also watched Social Dilemma.
For me, I felt sad. I felt so sad and more than a little angry how people are getting sucked into foolish self-image/ self-brand building through Social media...I understand business/ professional profiles are a standard expectation..but it’s more than that, we see people publicly establishing Instagrammed lives, flawless and unrealistic. Or virtue signalling etc...It’s all so.....off.
I know Social Dilemma addressed some deeply concerning issues...it’s not good.

Stranger
Posts: 1897
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: I have dilemma.

#3 Post by Stranger » 6 months ago

Dajo1 wrote:
6 months ago
There was a kind of in between time about how evil the internet is/was and so on. I regularly inserted comments into my public talks about the dangers of screens. At that time we were bring up 2 teenage boys - I could see then the influence of SCREENS. TV screens, video screens, nintendo screens, other portable screens. Computer screens and cell phone screens. Now smart phone screens and screens every where. I was fascinated by the thing that uses light pixels and it's influence. Light enters the eye. images are really really strong and moving images even more so.

Bump it forward to 10/10/2020 present day and time. It's just a blink of the eye Dajo.

The polysemic nature of television and the factors which enable different viewers to make different senses of the same text is evolving.

Debuting in 1983 this song is one I had an urge to play last weekend but since you introduced it so well I'll play it this weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-6mI70 ... rt_radio=1

"Sounds" like we are at the tower of Babel again during the confusion.

Word of the day: polysemy


Stranger, (Ps 38:3 KJV)

Marina
Posts: 2139
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: I have dilemma.

#4 Post by Marina » 6 months ago

They come into the WT box as asylum seekers - some escape by seeing through the WT lies and head off into the hands of Jesus and others need to be put into another kind of asylum. WT version of 'Love Aladdin Sane'.



(Matthew 13:47-48) . . .“Again the kingdom of the heavens is like a dragnet let down into the sea and gathering up [fish] of every kind. 48 When it got full they hauled it up onto the beach and, sitting down, they collected the fine ones into vessels, but the unsuitable they threw away.

Marina

Get out of her
Posts: 942
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: I have dilemma.

#5 Post by Get out of her » 6 months ago

Dajo1 wrote:
Then of course Watchtower has gon full on internet, video and audio Technology

Over the past couple of years I have seriously considered on many occasions to totally ditch any connected accounts I have.
Why? I don't know. It is a hunch. A gut feeling if you like.
I have become increasingly concerned about the absolutely amount of contradictory and confronting, confusing cacophony of information.
Hello again David. Assuming I'm understanding you correctly and you are speaking of completely "ditching any connected accounts" to the JW organization, I can assure you of the following:

I could easily continue demonstrating scripturally that to perform this complete separation would be a large part of obeying scriptural commands that are ALWAYS issued to us in the setting of a complete apostasy of Jehovah's nation/kingdom, or otherwise ANY of the foretold "times" in which it would once again need to "come" or experience another of its foretold "births." (1 Sa 2:5) (Jer 15:9) (Isa 66:7, 8) This is namely commands such as "flee to the mountains" or what ones like the Apostle Paul referred to as "getting out from among them and separating ourselves..." from what would NOW qualify as an entity that HAD BEEN Jehovah's nation or people. (Mt 24:15, 16) (2 Cor 6:17) But would this amount to now "fleeing" or "separating ourselves" from "Babylon the Great" as you seem to be wondering here?
I have floated the idea here gently about Babylon the Great. I have always questioned about it being non JW religion. I still feel BTG could be:
The Media.
The flatforms the media use.
social media.
The internet.
We would do well to consider things like the Old Testament writings that Paul was actually quoting from or citing when he suddenly realized to his horror that the first century Corinthian congregation had experienced a complete apostasy. Paul was actually quoting from scriptures like Jeremiah 51:45 and Isaiah 52:11. Particularly upon considering the surrounding context in these accounts, you will soon discover you are on the right track to be thinking in terms (in OUR time period at least) of equating a separation from the JW organization with fleeing from Babylon the Great. Since this "great city" is actually identified as a "THREE part" entity however, we would more specifically want to think of this as a separation from the "false prophet" portion of it. (Re 16:13, 19)

An even deeper investigation of the scriptures however will reveal that what we would be "fleeing" from at this point is not so much Babylon the Great, but more specifically such in a "FALLEN" condition as opposed to what HAD been recognized by Jehovah himself as a "STANDING" one, in which even the ancient King Nebuchadnezzar himself qualified as Jehovah's "servant." (Da 7:4) (Re 14:8 18:2) (Jer 25:9) In this "standing" condition Jehovah sees himself as even the actual OWNER of this "servant," which is what is ALWAYS represented or symbolized with a change being made in a person's name. (Re 2:17) This is a change such as with Abram's name being changed to Abraham, or Sarai being changed to Sarah. (Ge 17:5, 15) In this case NebuchadNezzar's name was changed to "NebuchadRezzar." (Jer 25:9) Did we ever notice a pattern here of this always occurring in connection with the forming of a holy covenant between Jehovah and mankind?

It's very important for us to recognize that when ones such as the prophet Daniel and his three Hebrew companions were ruling over Babylon with a favorably disposed Nebuchadrezzar, or Esther and Mordecai were ruling over ancient Persia with a very kindly King Darius, this "Babylon the Great" entity would BY NO MEANS qualify as a "great harlot" or otherwise something that repentant people would be required to "flee" from. It would only be when the theocratically appointed rulers would "act wickedly against" or even "leave" Jehovah's "holy covenant" that this "great city" or "faithful town" would "BECOME a prostitute," or what is also described as a "disgusting thing that causes desolation." (Isa 1:21) (Da 11:30-32) Compare (Mt 24:15, 16) It is only when it "falls" into spiritual adultery that Babylon the Great becomes a "dwelling place of demons," and its extremely important for us to understand that this phenomenon of the "standing's" and "fallings" of Babylon the Great was something foretold to occur "seven times" before the birth or manifestation of the long anticipated Millennial Reign. (Re 18:2) (Da 4:23, 32) (Le 26:14-28)

We would all do very well to take note of the fact however that this command to "flee" or "separate ourselves" from a "fallen" version of Babylon the Great was immediately followed with specific instructions on WHERE to flee TO! This was explicitly identified as the "wilderness" as well as the "mountains." But do we actually understand the rather cryptic meanings of this symbolic spiritual language, and just how crucial it really is for us to do so? I am actually considering this information right now in the last post of my discussion of John 10:16, and I would strongly encourage my dear brothers and sisters to very closely and prayerfully consider it.

Agape love;
Sol

Dajo1
Posts: 343
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: I have dilemma.

#6 Post by Dajo1 » 6 months ago

Thanks Phoebe,
yes sad but true .. however we have "the mind of Christ" - to aim for, 1 Cor 2:16

Stranger.
Your ability with music knowledge and scripture knowledge never fails to astound me!

Marina.
I enjoy all your YouTube productions and love your wide view of things.

Sol.
You never fail to lose me.. (I'm lost for words)

Thanks. It was helpful reading the various responses.

In posting my thoughts, please realize that is what they are. Simply thoughts. Also realize that thoughts pass by. Some are latched onto – others are simply shrugged off.
I am not suggesting nor wanting the words in the first post to be my belief.
I simply put it out there. I floated an idea that I pondered yesterday.

After a little pondering today though, I still feel there are some similarities with today's technology and the description that is used in Revelation about Babylon the great:

Spiritism (addictive druggery stuff)
Magic, Sorcery.

Here's two quotes that are mentioned in the documentary “The Social Dilemma”

“Any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic.”
Arthur C. Clarke



“There are only two industries that call their customers 'users':
illegal drugs and software”
Edward Tufte

Here's another thing to throw in the mix:

Chiasma.
to quote a 1999 Awake! "The millions of neurons of the optic nerve arrive at a junction in the brain known as the optic chiasma."

It has been demonstrated here conclusively that the Bible is Chiasmic. That is in it's books, verses and chapters.
That IS the case. It is a demonstrable fact. This forum has a large collection of the fascinating chiasma in scripture.

Question. Could events be that way as well. here's an example of my thoughts here.

We know that Babel means "confusion". Gen 11 has mankind's language thrown into that state.
Genesis is the FIRST book. Revelation is the LAST book
Both feature BABYLON.

In Genesis, mankind was united in doing a deed. That was thwarted (interfered with). They were deliberately made to be confused in their thinking (language).
The account in Genesis says God did that.

In Revelation, mankind is seems to be in the same state.

So if chiasma involves events. Will there be a UNITING? And who does that?

Bobcat
Posts: 3302
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: I have dilemma.

#7 Post by Bobcat » 6 months ago

Hi Dajo1,

Very interesting posts/thread this is.

I am intending to watch the movie you referenced. Recently on CNN (on XM radio while driving to work) they were interviewing a man who proposed that social media was at the heart of much of the polarization that is taking place in the USA. I would think that there is some possible relationship between all this self-image sort of stuff now and God's statement at the Tower of Babel that, "nothing that they propose to do will be impossible for them." (Gen 11:6; Chiastic structure in the Tower of Babel account here, and see also the commentary just below the chiasm of Gen 11:1-9.)

On the idea of a chiastic pattern to the entire 7th day, of which the Bible is mostly composed of (all except for Gen 1 & 2), this post might be of interest (or you might already have seen it). It was an exploratory idea on my part. But it seems (to me, at least) to hold up. It might suggest that Jehovah thinks in such a fashion. Or, perhaps, it could be related to the thought of several verses that speak of God's knowing the 'end from the beginning.' And since God is not merely knowing how history would work out, but actually driving history towards its foretold end, that might suggest an intentional 'poetic balance' (if you will) to all the events of history. An historical pattern you might expect from a supreme Intelligence, as opposed to how you might expect the history of something to work out (that is, erratically) when less-than-perfect minds are driving the progress.

Just a thought: On the uniting of mankind, the League/UN was/is a political attempt at that. Yet, there is a paradox in it. If the confusion of the languages is the point in time at which Satan has rulership of mankind "delivered" to him (Lu 4:5, 6), then, that might suggest that Satan's rulership of mankind benefits from mankind not being united. And by extension, that might suggest that it is to Satan's benefit to have most of mankind 'in the dark' so-to-speak.' This is the pattern of operation for most, if not all, dictatorships. They control the flow of information to the many. Only a few 'in the know.' Yet, here and now we have an ever freely flowing distribution of information (which works against WT operations also). In a sense, a quasi return to the conditions prior to the confusion of the languages. Chiasmus at its best. Or, 'its been a long road traveled, only to end up where we started.' Anyways, just a thought.

Well David, I've been tired the last few months. Between you and Stranger, you might be helping me to get going again. Thanks for the thread.


Bobcat

Marina
Posts: 2139
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: I have dilemma.

#8 Post by Marina » 6 months ago

Hi Bobcat

In computing for speed, ideally you never use text/code, you use numbers for relationships.

For example

id lang1 lang2
1 stone stan
2 staff stav

The number are what make it work.

Jesus' disciples were (in Greek) called the mathete - in our lang it means arithmetic but in Greek it means learner.

When WT goes what's going to happen? My view is it's going to be numbers that bring her down. She rests on the 1914 doctrine for her authority but 19+14 = 33rd year of Nebuchadnezzar (Eze 40:1)

33-25 (Jchin exile) = 8th year Nebu.

It is pure science and it'll even blow out evolution. You don't even need to believe in God to do the arithmetic.

What does banking rest on - numbers - who wont be able to trade acc to Revelation when BTG goes? Incidentally - the bankers often built churches where I live. Close relationship between the world of banking and architecture.

:flowers:
Marina

Marina
Posts: 2139
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: I have dilemma.

#9 Post by Marina » 6 months ago

Hi Dajo - glad you enjoy my productions :cheerleader: Hopefully next one out soon. All on 1914 plus a bit. I've been on this for at least 8 months - whaaaaa! :waiting:

Anyway - grammar and glamour are connected via the term gramary or gramarye.

Gramary is magic or enchantment but comes from Middle English, skill in grammar, hence magic.

Glamour is the influence of charm on the eyes, making them see thing as fairer than they are. An archaic meaning was 'fascination'.

When you are designing an app you have to cut up the data (basically a sentence) into the bits that make up what you eventually want to measure (or whatever). So imagine the sentence as a potato and you have a sharp cutter made of squares and you push your potato (sentence) through it and the chips (words) fall automatically into the baskets you have prepared to catch them in.

Someone else described it like this - how do you get a massive vase through a small letter box? Break the vase into bits that will go through the letter box, number each one and reassemble when they have all gone through the letter box. That's packet switching I believe.

Because you have to know how to cut up your vase/poatato - that's the grammar-like bit of dealing with data.
Marina

Orchid61
Posts: 564
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: I have dilemma.

#10 Post by Orchid61 » 6 months ago

Break the vase into bits that will go through the letter box,
Hi Marina,

Thats what happened with the vases the expert of the Repair Shop is doing.
From all the pieces she gets, making a gorgeous vase again.

Thats what Jesus is doing with us brokenhearted humans, making us whole again,so we can be vessels for honorable use.

2 Tim 2:20, 21 ESV
20 Now in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and silver but also of wood and clay, some for honorable use, some for dishonorable. 21 Therefore, if anyone cleanses himself from what is dishonorable, he will be a vessel for honorable use, set apart as holy, useful to the master of the house, ready for every good work.

Love
Maria :waving: and patiently :waiting: for your 1914 video 💐

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