Sin is EGO

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simplyme
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Sin is EGO

#1 Post by simplyme » 1 year ago

We changed a few things and added more to my previous post on “free will”

I thought I would just start a new topic on this subject and then we can add to it over time

Look forward to anyone’s thoughts

For the most part people want to do the right thing. They want what is good for themselves and they want what is good for everyone else. We want loving and healthy relationships and loving and healthy families. This is the foundation of a healthy society.

If we all want this so badly you would think this would come easy but it doesn’t. In fact good relationships are very difficult. We have to work hard to have just a decent relationship with someone. Relationships are so fragile.

Why is this? It doesn’t make any sense.

This may be the answer......

Go back to the beginning in the Biblical narrative of Adam and Eve. It really doesn’t matter if you believe the story or not. The answer is still there.

Was “sin” just disobedience or was it something more?

According to the story one of the first actions they took after “sinning” was to hide themselves because they were naked. This tells us that before “sin” the fact that they were naked was meaningless to them. The account even says they were naked and unashamed. How can you not know you are naked or that it didn’t bother them? They weren’t self conscious or self aware.

Let us unpack this a little more.

The word sin means to “miss the mark”. Traditionally we have been taught this is to disobey one of God’s commandments. Look at it from a different vantage point.
As we mature from childhood on we become more and more self conscious. We become aware of what’s going on inside of us and WHO WE ARE. We become much more aware of our frailties and weaknesses than our strengths. Why do we focus on these rather than the strengths and beautiful qualities in ourselves and others? We become more and more aware of how we “miss the mark” inside us as an individual. In a way to comfort ourselves we start looking at how those close to us “miss the mark” also so we can say “ At least I’m not as bad as that person”. This causes us to become increasingly insecure with who we are as a unique person. We don’t want people to see these failings so we hide parts of us just like Adam and Eve did in the Garden. Metaphorically we don’t want people to see us naked. God asked them “WHO told you, you were naked?”

Even tho they didn’t answer, the answer was their self conscious told them which they didn’t have earlier. So was it really the self conscious that told them or maybe something formed to protect the now self conscious self. Maybe Adam and Eve were not ready to be self conscious. It was not God’s time for them to partake and the realization of being naked and everything that goes with that especially from a sexual perspective was too much for them to handle. Maybe their mental and emotional growth at that time could be compared to a child. Their conscious selves immediately created an EGO to protect the self and hide the self even in a physical sense.

As a person becomes increasingly self conscious, they become more insecure. People may see who we really are! They will see our faults and think less of us or even somehow use them against us. As the insecurities start to manifest themselves an EGO is systematically created to protect and feed the insecurities in the person. This EGO produces over time a virtual reality that is a false narrative in ways to their true reality. We begin to live in a reality that hides our weaknesses from ourselves and others....or so we think. It produces a protective shield around the persons frailties which creates all these insecurities. The EGO hides their weaknesses so they don’t have to deal with them or even see them. It creates a virtual world which is a mixture of truths and lies. A world which we believe to be truth but it has false realities mixed in. The stronger the EGO the more the truth is taken over by lies. The more we live in a false reality. Being self conscious or aware can be used to be extremely beneficial with ourselves and others but the EGO is completely selfish and negative. Even if unintentionally someone exposes one of our weaknesses the EGO will immediately protect that person and even attack the person who is doing this. This is where relationships are hurt and even destroyed. What happens is a battle of EGOs in relationships. Two completely selfish entities battling one another. The EGO hides and protects us from our frailties while at the same time revealing and magnifying the frailties of those close to us. In a false narrative of self preservation and protection our EGOS are attacking each other. Our EGOS go into the protective mode and offensive mode to protect our self conscious self. The irony is our EGOS in trying to protect us are destroying what we need most. Loving healthy relationships.

We think it is important to bring the subject of free will into this discussion. Scientists say we work out of our subconscious roughly 95% of the time and our conscious 5% on any given day. Are the subconscious and the EGO synonymous? Maybe, but it sure seems reasonable that the subconscious is controlled most if not all of the time by the EGO. So in reality we have very little free will in life. The EGO controls us most of the time. It’s only when we consciously make a concerted effort to understand what our EGO is trying to get us to do, in any given instance, and we work against it that our free will is used. This is when God’s Spirit is truly working with us because we are actively fighting against the works of the flesh.

As Paul said “I behold in my members another law warring against the law of my mind and leading me captive to sin’s (EGO’s) law that is in my members”.

It is as if the EGO is its own entity which is controlling us for the most part. We are being held hostage by it. Jesus’ ransom sacrifice is the only answer. That is the only means by which sin or EGO is removed. He has paid the ransom to release us from this slavery. This environment that we live in just feeds all these EGOS, so we can’t be truly healed and released until God’s will is done here on Earth as it is in Heaven. A completely cleansed environment.

Our EGO, to protect the self, will find people similar to our way of thinking or feeling and we surround ourselves with these ones. This makes us feel secure. The EGO never wants to be even somewhat wrong in our ideologies. The thought that we could be even a little wrong makes us feel insecure. To be really wrong is devastating. This is a false premise made up by our EGO to protect the self. The reality is to “miss the mark” or make mistakes and be wrong at times is part of learning and growth as a human. This is the process of learning how to do anything better or understanding the world we live in better. You can’t learn how to do things right without knowing what won’t work or what is wrong. This is how relationships grow and mature and become stronger. We need to see where we can improve with each other. In fact when mistakes are admitted to and apologies are made and a desire is communicated to improve, our relationships get stronger

Our self conscious is constantly judging us in a negative and insecure way. Our EGO is constantly judging those around us in a negative way to put a positive spin on our own self conscious self and dare I say it, to make us feel a tiny more superior to the others.

What we can do is to take the power away from our own EGO. To use the self conscious in a positive way. First with ourselves and then with others. The only way to combat this in relationships is to LIVE the fruitages of the Spirit, especially love. If we know someone sees all our weaknesses and loves us AS IS with no changes, it diffuses the insecurities of our self conscious and our EGO becomes smaller and smaller.

We think it’s important to say something about how religion can be used to create an EGO on steroids. Since we came from a high controlled religion to put it nicely, we can speak from experience on what this did to our own EGO. When you treat yourself or other people in a certain way because you have been taught God says it is okay even “right”, your EGO can cause you to do inhuman behaviors. Behaviors that go directly against the fruitages of God’s own Spirit. When our EGO is powered by this kind of religious fervor we don’t even question or notice that we are living our life in direct opposition to God’s Spirit. We convince ourselves that to treat someone in direct opposition to God’s fruitages of His Spirit is the right thing to do in this particular instance because some person told us that God said this was right. The person being treated this way just stares in amazement and disbelief.

What if we focused on our strengths and our beautiful traits instead and these became the focal point of WHO WE ARE. The EGO would die off. It would cease to have a reason to exist.

What if we did the same with our family and friends and all people and they did the same.

What if partaking of the tree of knowledge was meant to happen when humans were mature enough to do so? When they could use this knowledge of being self aware or self conscious in a positive and constructive loving way.

Now consider some of the words Jesus said:

“Whoever will humble himself like this young child is the one that is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens”
“The greatest among you must be your minister. Whoever exalts himself will be humbled and whoever humbles himself will be exalted”
“Let him that is the greatest among you become as the youngest, and the one acting as chief as the one ministering”
“Blessed are the gentile since they will inherit the earth”

John S
Posts: 1159
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: Sin is EGO

#2 Post by John S » 1 year ago

The answer to why they realized they were naked had nothing to do we ego.

The fruit imparted knowledge of good and bad.

That’s why it was called that.

That’s why they ‘woke up’, or learned about nakedness by the fruit.

The fruit was poisonous also. That’s why the Tree of Life was in the immediate area, because if a child or curious person saw the fruit and ate, they could take the cure by stepping next tree over to the Tree of Life , which as it says in gen 3, was the cure.

I just positive the trees would me marked with signage once peoplebeganmultiplying, or possibly a science wouldgrow concerning using the Tree of Knowledge’s fruit .

Take it for what it says. Think of it in real time, and literal.

Not symbolic...none of this was symbolic. Real people, real trees, real death.

Phoebe
Posts: 950
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Sin is EGO

#3 Post by Phoebe » 1 year ago

Hi Simplyme,

Thank you for posting a topic for thoughtful discussion.
Our self conscious is constantly judging us in a negative and insecure way. Our EGO is constantly judging those around us in a negative way to put a positive spin on our own self conscious self and dare I say it, to make us feel a tiny more superior to the others.
It seems that we see this play out so often.
A good sense of personal evaluation is really helpful, essential - but a heightened sense of internal negativity and insecurity has poor outcomes, overshadowing other relationships in a hurtful way.

Lots to think over here.
Will look forward to reading responses.

Bobcat
Posts: 3367
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Sin is EGO

#4 Post by Bobcat » 1 year ago

Hi SimplyMe,

I'm like Phoebe, this is an interesting thesis.

I posted some footnotes from the NET Bible at Genesis 2 & 3 here. Linking them to this thread because they do appear to have some relevance to this discussion.

Question: How would you relate death and the dying process to this? It wouldn't seem that ego, all by itself, would cause a deterioration in the body that leads eventually to death. In other words, ego/insecurity would appear to be a symptom of sin, but not the only symptom. Just a thought.

On another idea/thought: The temptation of Jesus in Matthew 4 and Luke 4 appears to focus on trying to get Jesus to think in an egotistical way so as to cause him to displease his Father. "If you are a son of God . . . " & showing him all the kingdoms and their glory and telling him they can all be his for an act of worship.


Bobcat

John S
Posts: 1159
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: Sin is EGO

#5 Post by John S » 1 year ago

This is interesting. What you said here.....

“It is as if the EGO is its own entity which is controlling us for the most part. We are being held hostage by it. Jesus’ ransom sacrifice is the only answer. That is the only means by which sin or EGO is removed. He has paid the ransom to release us from this slavery. This environment that we live in just feeds all these EGOS, so we can’t be truly healed and released until God’s will is done here on Earth as it is in Heaven. A completely cleansed environment.

Our EGO, to protect the self, will find people similar to our way of thinking or feeling and we surround ourselves with these ones. This makes us feel secure. The EGO never wants to be even somewhat wrong in our ideologies. The thought that we could be even a little wrong makes us feel insecure. To be really wrong is devastating. This is a false premise made up by our EGO to protect the self. The reality is to “miss the mark” or make mistakes and be wrong at times is part of learning and growth as a human. This is the process of learning how to do anything better or understanding the world we live in better. You can’t learn how to do things right without knowing what won’t work or what is wrong. This is how relationships grow and mature and become stronger. We need to see where we can improve with each other. In fact when mistakes are admitted to and apologies are made and a desire is communicated to improve, our relationships get stronger”

Making mistakes and having misunderstandings and selfish tendencies has been occurring since the beginning in Eden.

I don’t think there will EVER be an end to this, as it is impossible for human creatures to see every angle and understand every feeling or attitude in others we contact in work, education, playtime, when or wherever.we are not gods. So....why assume that in the Kingdom to come, every day will someday be absolutely worry, problem, challenge free in human relations?

THAT Aja’s never been hinted at by God. But to the contrary, the theme of the Creators’ messages has always been....” you must be patient , kind, humble, and loving EVERY DAY , and ALL of us will get along down the road of progress and happiness. “

Because issues will always arise.

Marina
Posts: 2160
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Sin is EGO

#6 Post by Marina » 1 year ago

Haven't read through everything here - but use of word 'ego' - be careful. Some words carry higher levels of risk at having their semantics highjacked. Advising due diligence.

The word means

Ego eimi (Ancient Greek: ἐγώ εἰμι Greek pronunciation: [eɡɔ̌ː eːmí]) "I am", "I exist", is the first person singular present active indicative of the verb "to be" in ancient Greek.

If you are adding meaning to this word, consider what authority you are using and the values and priorities of that authority.
Marina

Stranger
Posts: 1947
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Sin is EGO

#7 Post by Stranger » 1 year ago

Marina wrote:
1 year ago
If you are adding meaning to this word, consider what authority you are using and the values and priorities of that authority.

That sounds like good advice Marina. (Mt 28:18)
simplyme wrote:
1 year ago
The word sin means to “miss the mark”.
Simpleme, the way you are defining sin would seem to me that it only means that we are making errors in our attempt to do right.

Does not sin mean much more than that, or is everything else just a crime?

Everyone is endowed with an ego, some use it in a good way some in a bad, some don't use it at all even though they still have one.

When you say that sin is ego I'm not convinced that is accurate. Ego may be a component of sin for some but to me it's not the main ingredient.



Stranger, (Mt 9:11,12)

simplyme
Posts: 158
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Sin is EGO

#8 Post by simplyme » 1 year ago

For any who may be interested, here are the mechanical translations of the scriptures in Genesis that pertain to this. From the LXX which are the earliest translations we have as of now.

Gen. 2:9 Mechanically combined: “and the tree that to have discerned a known-aspect of a fine person and of a malicious-person...”

Gen. 2:17 Mechanically combined: “but from the tree of the-means to be personally knowing a fine thing and a malicious thing...”

Gen.3:22 Mechanically combined: “and the-(true/real - specifying) God advocates: “Look! Adam has become as (a certain) one/1 from out of/among us, (so as) to be personally knowing a fine thing and a malicious thing...”

To be clear we are not saying we are definitely right. We just think we are getting closer to understanding what is happening in us.

To err is human as the saying goes. Obviously even the angels have the capacity to make mistakes. We just think there is more to the Scriptural “sin” than just making mistakes. We could be wrong tho...

Maria you may be right on using EGO. Maybe subconscious is more appropriate. I just don’t know how to describe this any other way. Open to suggestions.

Bobcat, that is a great question. We just don’t know and it would be pure speculation at this point.

Stranger we believe we make mistakes every day. We are trying to convey the thought that the EGO in us is what practices the works of the flesh as the Bible describes them. There is nothing good about the EGO. Feeling good or proud about ourselves comes from fruitages of God’s Spirit. To love ourselves.

This is the struggle Paul describes going on in his members every day. Rom. 7:21-25

This is just something we have been working on for several years. If you disagree with the premise, that’s fine.

If you can add to it we would love to hear your thoughts. :)

Phoebe
Posts: 950
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Sin is EGO

#9 Post by Phoebe » 1 year ago

Hi simply,

I guess, the problem is that where God is Love, We are Sin.
We are the broken, miserable image of the full being of our Creator.

It’s hard for broken humanity to love itself in a really holy and godly way, because of the disease of ‘Sin’ which has its imprint soaked into our very being.

And that makes our holy love of other creatures and of our Living God fraught with imperfection, not whole.

But, we DO love. We ARE loved.
It’s our false identity that is bred from Sin that stains things - isn’t it? Is that the Ego you are referring to Simplyme? A false and damaged Ego which is our inheritance?

Just trying to work through thoughts. 🙂

simplyme
Posts: 158
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Sin is EGO

#10 Post by simplyme » 1 year ago

Hey Phoebe

I loved the way you put it “our false identity that is bred from Sin”! Exactly

I picture this false identity as something that lives in us but is not really us but it controls much of how we look at ourselves and others and how we act. It is the entity that promotes the works of the flesh and creates this harsh world of focusing on the faults of ourselves and others. A very negative judgmental false reality.

It’s in opposition to the Spirits fruits

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