The "Chariot" is now moving at warp speed

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apollos0fAlexandria
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Re: The

#21 Post by apollos0fAlexandria » 6 years ago

Bobcat wrote:
52 years ago
Just came from a friend's one-day assembly ("Keep Seeking Jehovah's Righteousness!" - Mt 6:33) and the chariot motif is alive and . . . er . . . rolling. The way the term was used seems to be something like, 'whatever the GB decides, that is the way the chariot is moving, because whatever the GB has decided, that is where Jehovah has decided to move.'

As an interesting little side note: The expenses for this one-day were in the $1800 (US) range. It was held in a rented public school auditorium (quite a nice, comfortable place). The expenses for this little one-day (attendance = ~875) were rather puny compared to the $11,000 expense for a one-day at a Society owned assembly hall (Orangeburg, SC, attendance = ~1600) The one-day 'chariot' above in Waycross, GA is obviously quite a bit better on gas. :D

Bobcat
Bobcat,

I have heard some of the brothers express how humble the GB are, because they have said that they too (the GB) are just trying to "keep up with the chariot". It would be somewhat comical if it weren't so serious.

They come up with a new doctrine that makes no sense and cannot be reasoned from scripture. They say "we love this idea", and then pretend they they too are just trying to keep up with the changing doctrine.

I'm sure it would make for a fascinating psychological study if they were willing to subject themselves to some analysis. Once you are convinced that you have been appointed as the "voice of God", and that key Bible prophecy is being fulfilled through you personally, then I guess some really interesting factors must come into play. And there were probably some interesting factors that got you into that situation in the first place.

That's very interesting about the convention expenses. It does highlight how uneconomical the arrangement of assembly halls currently is. And yet they continue to build.

Apollos

Bobcat
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Re: The "Chariot"

#22 Post by Bobcat » 6 years ago

Apollos:

There may be some truth in the idea of individual GB members being humble and viewing themselves as trying to keep up with the same chariot they are actually 'driving.' There is a phenomenon known variously as GroupThink.

The individual GB might see himself as separate from the GB as a group (Indeed, their new 'FDS' doctrine says as much). So what the friends may see in the personality of an individual GB member they have met may be quite different from what the GB as a group portray.

Much of the discussion on this forum often revolves around what the corporate GB says or does. We wonder why other friends don't see this. But their view may be comprised of their experience with individual GB members. To them, nothing evil could come from such a humble individual. And indeed, as an individual, he may never have come up with such an idea/policy that the GroupThink comes up with.

I think you would find that Governments and Organizations of all sorts have this same personality split between the individuals that make it up and the organization as a whole. There is a 'SkyNet' type personality (idea taken from the 'Terminator' movies) that arises out of groups, that is separate from the individuals that comprise it. I believe some of this is an extension of Ramsey's Theorem as it applies to groups of humans (that's Bobcat's 'theorem,' at any rate).

I wonder if, due to this GroupThink phenomenon, perhaps groups are more susceptible to being exploited or led in a certain direction in a way that would be more difficult for an individual to be exploited or led. Within the WT Org, there is much pressure to suppress the individual personality in favor of the group. Individual conscience is also suppressed. Whereas, in the NT, individual conscience is highlighted.

Bobcat

Bobcat
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Re: The

#23 Post by Bobcat » 6 years ago

On a second thought to my above post, therein might lie the strategy of making the individual GB members more public. One sees the individual GB member and assumes that the Organization is just like him.

Bobcat (and his wacky theorems)

Bobcat
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Re: The

#24 Post by Bobcat » 6 years ago

It does highlight how uneconomical the arrangement of assembly halls currently is. And yet they continue to build.
Whether it is "uneconomical" or not would depend on which side of the coin you are on: the giving side or the receiving side.

If you are on the receiving side, then, yes, "continue to build."

I would not be surprised if circuits that rent are eventually required to go to WT owned assembly halls. It would be interesting if the change to one-day only assemblies is for that purpose. The switch to one-day only assemblies does open up more free days for a WT assembly hall to be used. But I doubt the WT would ever admit to as much.

Bobcat
Last edited by Bobcat on Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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menrov
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Re: The

#25 Post by menrov » 6 years ago

Bobcat, thanks for the analysis. To me it seems a schizofrenic group if you or your analysis Is correct. Jesus was the same, when alone or when joined with his apostles or disciples. In other words, Jesus was always himself.
The only people changing the doctrines are the GB members. To complain they cannot keep up or find it hard te kaap pace, is pure window dressing. It is like a manager who says he understands the need to fire people as long of course as he himself is not the victim.

Hmm...sorry to sound harsh..

Bobcat
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Re: The

#26 Post by Bobcat » 6 years ago

For any JWs reading this thread, the link to the GroupThink article above is quite a fascinating read when having the WT organization in mind.

Here is another generic article on GroupThink.

Bobcat
Last edited by Bobcat on Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

leaving_quietly
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Re: The

#27 Post by leaving_quietly » 6 years ago

Our one-day assembly a little over a month ago cost $17,000. I whispered to my elder brother-in-law, "why in the world does this thing cost $17,000???" He shrugged his shoulders and said, "I don't know. I didn't go to the elders' meeting." The number keeps going up and up and up and up.

Regarding the chariot, I've always understood it to be the vision in Ezekiel 1 and 10. Of course, the word "chariot" is not used in the description, but that God's throne was above the expanse of ice above the four living creatures.

I'm not sure where we get the idea of "keeping up with the chariot" from, though. That seems to be a reading into the vision that just isn't stated (as far as I'm aware).

If you can stand to listen to the computerized voice in this YouTube video, it's an interesting visualization of the vision.

apollos0fAlexandria
Posts: 3333
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: The

#28 Post by apollos0fAlexandria » 6 years ago

leaving_quietly wrote:
52 years ago
Our one-day assembly a little over a month ago cost $17,000. I whispered to my elder brother-in-law, "why in the world does this thing cost $17,000???" He shrugged his shoulders and said, "I don't know. I didn't go to the elders' meeting." The number keeps going up and up and up and up.

Regarding the chariot, I've always understood it to be the vision in Ezekiel 1 and 10. Of course, the word "chariot" is not used in the description, but that God's throne was above the expanse of ice above the four living creatures.

I'm not sure where we get the idea of "keeping up with the chariot" from, though. That seems to be a reading into the vision that just isn't stated (as far as I'm aware).

If you can stand to listen to the computerized voice in this YouTube video, it's an interesting visualization of the vision.
It's a throne theophany to be sure, but I still don't see a shred of decent evidence that it has anything to do with chariots.

Apollos

leaving_quietly
Posts: 761
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: The

#29 Post by leaving_quietly » 6 years ago

I still don't see a shred of decent evidence that it has anything to do with chariots.
Me neither. It's another example of WTBTS reading something into the scriptures that isn't there.

I was just thinking that there is a major discrepancy with how WTBTS views this and what the NT says. WTBTS teaches that this is "God's organization" and that it's "Jehovah's chariot" on the move. In doing so, they are overlooking the fact that Christ is not anywhere pictured in that "chariot", and that God isn't actually driving now, as he "made him [Christ] head over all things with regard to the congregation." (Eph 1:22)

Martell
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Re: The reason why assembly hall have higher costs

#30 Post by Martell » 6 years ago

Hi, I'm new to the group and look forward to participating. The reason why owned assembly hall meetings costs more than rented facilities is because the society is self-insured. Risk is managed by collecting monies from assembly donations into a special fund.( If a facility is rented, the place must have a certain amount of insurance per a letter to the body of elders). Since they don't purchase their own insurance, they need a way to cover events such as lawsuits, at their assembly halls. Of course when they announce the donations and expenses this cost is not mentioned. Martell

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