Are Gay People Born Gay?

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Daniel12
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Are Gay People Born Gay?

#1 Post by Daniel12 » 2 years ago

This is an important question because just as little as 50 years ago, the majority of people taught that gays were ETERNALLY condemned to the lake of fire or eternal death. :eek:

In other words, there was no redemption for them.

I’ve talked to several Gay people and asked them straight out if they became gay or were they born gay?

Sometime back, I had a conversation with a lady in her late 40s. She asked me a series of questions to make her point. She also related her story as a gay person. Here are some of the questions she asked me. And I am writing her story as I remember it, and the way she related it to me.

Her story began a shift in my view of gays. :geek: From there I started reading and researching.

Here begins her story;

"Do you think I would deliberately choose to become gay?

Think about what that implied to me as I was growing up. :geek:

By the time I was 12 years old, I knew I was different somehow but couldn’t really pin-point it. By the time I turned 13, I could see that I was not attracted to boys. My girlfriends would talk about how cute this boy or that boy was but it would gross me out. So much that one day at school, one boy kissed me and I vomited.

But I noticed that I was attracted to girls. Not just any girls but the pretty ones, the popular ones that attracted most of the boys. I couldn’t understand why.

As I kept getting older I noticed my girlfriends started dating boys and wanted to set me up with some boy. And I tried to date boys but it was so gross kissing them that it was like some heterosexual male kissing another heterosexual male, just gross and unthinkable.

I continued to be part of a group of girls that I hanged around since the first grade. On my final senior year I decided to make my feelings known to one of the girls in our group. She was a cheerleader and we were very close. We were there for each other for twelve years. I was positive she felt the same way for me as I did for her.

So one month before graduation, I decided to tell her how I felt about her. We were alone and I told her how much I cared for her and she responded with the same words that she also cared for me a lot. I told her that I wanted her in my life till the day I died and she reciprocated with the same feelings.

So at that point I was absolutely sure that my life was going to turn out happy after all. :)

So I gently grabbed her face and kissed her.

She pushed me away hard and all hell broke loose. She started spitting and cursing at me. She told the entire group of friends I hanged out with since first grade and they all started hating me. They started doing bad things to me like breaking into my locker and tearing all my books, vandalizing our home, and my parents and siblings had no idea what was going on because I still hadn’t come out yet.

So I didn’t attend my graduation. I lost my entire circle of friends that I built since first grade in a matter of minutes. I knew at that point that my life was going to be very sad and lonely. I prayed and prayed to God every night for hours year after year to take away my desire for girls and give me a normal desire for boys. But year after year passed by and my prayers were never answered.

I kept my secret from my parents till my 30s because I didn’t want to lose my family also. They hated gay people and would always talk at the table how they couldn’t wait till God destroyed them all.

When I finally did come out, my entire family disowned me.

I would never choose a life like this deliberately

To choose deliberately to be gay means that I deliberately choose to become an outcast in society. It means that it’s more than likely that I will be discriminated in school, in choosing a career, in employment, at restaurants, at social events. The majority of society will hate me. My family will disown me.

Do you think that I would deliberately choose that route? :naughty:

I was born this way. No one sexually abused me when I was growing up. I knew at a very young age that I was not attracted to boys. Call it a defect or call it something God wanted, but this is reality for many people like me. We are born this way.

So are Gay people born this way?

Even evolution is against Gays.

Quote;
From a strictly Darwinian viewpoint, homosexuality shouldn't still be around. It isn't the best way to pass along one's genes, and to complicate the picture further, no "gay genes" have even been identified. According to a newly released hypothesis, the explanation may not lie in DNA itself. Instead, as an embryo develops, sex-related genes are turned on and off in response to fluctuating levels of hormones in the womb, produced by both mother and child.

This tug of war benefits the unborn child, keeping male or female development on a steady course even amid spikes in hormones. But if these so-called epigenetic changes persist once the child is born and has children of its own, some of those offspring may be homosexual, the study proposes.

Evolutionary geneticist William Rice of the University of California, Santa Barbara, felt there had to be a reason why homosexuality didn't just fade away down the generations. Research estimates that about 8% of the population is gay, and homosexuality is known to run in families. If one of a set of identical twins is gay, there's a 20% probability that the other will be, too.
Furthermore, Rice notes, "homosexuality isn't just a human thing." Among California gulls, which he watches from his office window, about 14% of pairs are female-female. In Australian black swans, some 6% of pairs are male-male, and 8% of male sheep are attracted exclusively to male partners.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2012/12 ... start-womb


Hormones and Human Sexual Orientation
For several years now, studies seem to indicate that Hormones might be the culprit for sexual orientation. Studies and evidence now show that when a person is born with a male body or female body, that in itself is not necessarily a sure thing that sexual orientation will match. The hormones that trigger a certain brain formation while a human is in the womb are more of a determining factor as regards which sexual orientation that human being will take on birth.


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3138231/

This new knowledge is why many of the newer generations are accepting gays. The older generations who condemn gays will be gone in another 30 years and by then gays will no longer be outcasts in society.

The lady asked me;

Should we condemn the blind because they were born that way?
Should we condemn the lepers?
Should we condemn the lame?
Should we condemn anyone that is deformed?
Should we condemn midgets (small People?)

One of Hitler’s strategies was to rid Germany of these types of people because they were considered defective. So he initiated a program to murder them legally.

I personally feel that most gay people are born gay just like some people are born with two different colors of eyes.

Or someone born with a condition known as “Intersex.” It’s rare but it does happen.

Usually this refers to having genitalia that is “ambiguous”—that is, it’s not immediately clear whether the child has a penis or a vulva. Some children don’t have either, or what’s there may defy immediate classification. In the past it was very common to perform immediate surgery on such children to make their genitals conform outwardly to the “norm.” However, it’s being slowly recognized that it’s better for the child to wait until they can make their own determination. In even rarer cases, the child may appear to have both. Usually one or both sets is merely cosmetic—the vulva leads to a blind pouch instead of a true vagina, or there are no testes to deliver spermatozoa.

I believe gays are humans and as humans born in a very crazy complex world, I believe they also have a right to live and enjoy life and pursue knowledge of God.

But I don't mistake good human gays from bad human gays. :evil:

Just like none-gay people, there are good ones and evil ones who are more than willing to hurt their fellow human. Evil gay people can be just as bad as none gay evil people. And Good gay people can be just as good as Good none gay people.

But the criteria for judging humans should be the behavior, not the sexual orientation which is something we really have no control of.

Think about this, which would you rather have as a neighbor.

A good human gay person.

http://www.chabad.org/media/images/355/zLee3551098.jpg

Or a evil Non-gay person?

http://www.theallium.com/wp-content/upl ... erson1.jpg

Bobcat
Posts: 3840
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Re: Are Gay People Born Gay?

#2 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

Hi Dan,

I used to think it was all a learned behavior. But as the years have passed I have modified my viewpoint. As far as I can see, it is a condemned behavior in the Bible, both OT and NT.

But you didn't ask about that. Is it something possibly acquired via the birth and growth process? Where I am at right now I would say, quite possibly. My reasons:
1. Our sinful nature might occasionally produce persons who are mixed or damaged in their DNA. That problem (our inborn sinful nature) seems to produce other kinds of aberrations. So why not aberrations in sexual preference also.

2. BPA. Bisphenol-A, that is. Here is a write up on it. It was (and probably still is) widely used in plastics. There was a PBS(?) program on it a few years back. They showed the effects on aquatic creatures. It tended to cause disruption of sexual development. And the effects were in the part-per-trillion range. They did not speak of effects on humans, although, it should be noted that it has been banned from plastics used for baby bottles. (See also post # 4 below.)

BPA is spread throughout the environment now that we have been in the age of plastics. So I wonder if perhaps it has some effect or connection with the (apparent) growth of alternative lifestyles. I don't know for sure. And the present social climate probably does not allow for any serious study of it. (See some additional links to a 'plastics apocalypse' here.)

3. The rise of democratic style nations may also play a part in all this. People in this era have had the social freedom and leisure time to explore all sorts of things (good and bad). So I would not rule that out as a contributing factor. The rise of democracy also parallels the Industrial Age which would closely relate to my point # 2 above. So that points # 2 & 3 are rather intertwined.

Well, that's my considered opinion at this stage. (See also this post (and the one right after it) for a related point to point # 2 above and the effect of plastics on human sexuality.)


Bobcat

Daniel12
Posts: 929
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Are Gay People Born Gay?

#3 Post by Daniel12 » 2 years ago

Hi Bobcat :)
BPA. Bisphenol-A, that is. Here is a write up on it.
At high concentrations, BPA also binds to and acts as an antagonist of the androgen receptor (AR).[25] In addition to receptor binding, the compound has been found to affect Leydig cell steroidogenesis, including affecting 17α-hydroxylase/17,20 lyase and aromatase expression and interfering with LH receptor-ligand binding.[2
Ok, you just scared me! :eek:

https://www.thoughtco.com/thmb/LYBGh7k- ... cbd554.jpg

Bobcat
Posts: 3840
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Are Gay People Born Gay?

#4 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

The PBS program (or whoever was doing the study) said that the most of the BPA effect was during the sexual development of the creatures they were looking at. And the effect was with such tiny amounts (PPT).

For humans, sexual development is from prior to birth to some years afterwards. I don't know if there would be much effect afterwards. I think in humans puberty is near the end of sexual development.

But the program had me wondering if this might be a byproduct of the development of plastics. It is hard to say for sure. But in the present social environment, it might be difficult to study the possibility that the gay lifestyle was a chemical aberration. There might be an uproar over anyone trying to look into that. So it might not be closely studied just for that reason. Everything now-a-days has to be 'politically correct.'

Bobcat

Daniel12
Posts: 929
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Are Gay People Born Gay?

#5 Post by Daniel12 » 2 years ago

Hey Bobcat

I think your first idea has more concrete than the plastics idea
Our sinful nature might occasionally produce persons who are mixed or damaged in their DNA. That problem (our inborn sinful nature) seems to produce other kinds of aberrations. So why not aberrations in sexual preference also?
The reason I say this is because just like blindness, deafness, dwarfs, Siamese twins, gays, and other aberrations, these types of people have existed since before plastics or any other modern chemical products.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_LGBT_history

If you're born that way, ----you're born that way, it's not your fault, that just the way this life works.

For example here is a Crab eating Crab-babies. (YUM!)

Is that normal? Did God create it that way?

Or is that just the way life turns out in this crazy world?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... sland.html

Hisclarkness
Posts: 457
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Re: Are Gay People Born Gay?

#6 Post by Hisclarkness » 2 years ago

Hi Dan,

A few years ago on this forum I attempted to start a thread where I intended to demonstrate that I didn’t believe you could use the scriptures to condemn homosexuality as we understand it today.

The conversation became very heated, quickly derailed, and the topic was locked before I could make any headway.

Are gay people born gay? The short and simple answer is yes.

We can debate hormones or genetics or other biological or environmental factors but the fact remains that it is not a choice.

I would hope that most of us have at least come to this consensus here in 2019.

I think the heart of your question lies in whether or not it is ok for gay people to live their lives openly as gay people and still have a relationship with God. To this I would also answer in the affirmative.

If this topic is allowed to continue by the moderators I would love to delve into the scriptural reasons why I believe this to be the case.

Until then I’ll wait to see what the responses are.

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Nightingale
Posts: 477
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Re: Are Gay People Born Gay?

#7 Post by Nightingale » 2 years ago

I believe many of them are born that way. There are all kinds of disorders and malfunctions in human bodies since we are born, why not ones in sexual nature also? I recently saw this clip about a boy who knew he really was a girl when he was only a toddler. It's obvious he was like that since the beginning and could not help it, he didn't do it to annoy others or anything like that. It must be horrible when some parents try to force someone to be something they are not, some kids have even tried to kill themselves in such a situation.

Bible doesn't say anything about such cases unlike it does about homosexual lifestyle. Who knows, maybe many gays were actually born to a wrong body and that explains why they are attracted to (physically) same sex?

"Shortly, within our twentieth century, the "battle in the day of Jehovah" will begin against the modern antitype of Jerusalem, Christendom."

Erick
Posts: 229
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Are Gay People Born Gay?

#8 Post by Erick » 2 years ago

I agree that people are born gay. However I believe we can not get a full understanding of the situation without considering reincarnation. Although I’m aware that this is an unpopular topic here, we’ve all lived previous lives.
The soul isn’t male or female but normally can adapt to being either sex. A soul may become over time strongly identified as either male or female. Then when the soul is born into a body of the other sex it will oftentimes be gay in that lifetime. A soul that identifies strongly with being male and is born as a female will oftentimes be lesbian and be attracted to females.
Being overly identified with one sex or the other is an imbalance but is along the lines of many other imbalances that people have such as anger, non forgiveness, low self esteem etc.

Daniel12
Posts: 929
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Re: Are Gay People Born Gay?

#9 Post by Daniel12 » 2 years ago

Thanks Nightingale for that video. I noticed that starting at 2:37, that the little boy’s view on his brother’s new sexual orientation was not one of disgust or hatred, but more of a welcoming attitude to his new sister. I can’t help but reflect on the descriptive words regarding who really qualifies for entrance into God’s Kingdom.

Matthew AMP 18: 1-3
At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 He called a little child and set him before them, 3 and said, “I assure you and most solemnly say to you, unless you repent [that is, change your inner self—your old way of thinking, live changed lives] and become like children [trusting, humble, and forgiving], you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Something else we have to do is put ourselves in the parent’s shoes. What if we had a beautiful child that looked just like the one in the video, how would we react? Would we hate that child just because it was different? Is that what parents do when their child is born blind, cripple, o born with an awful facial and mental deformity. That child was lucky to have those parents and siblings. :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gwNQqnEYMXw

Notice the type of reinforcement that this person gives this child. And notice the response the child gives through her electronic device. (YES, YES, YES) is her reply!

https://youtu.be/gwNQqnEYMXw?t=495


Don’t you think that if this girl had, had a choice, that she would have immediately pick a body and face that our society, our culture at this time has outline and set the specs for what “Real Beauty” is supposed to be.

https://www.i4u.com/sites/default/files ... 9036_0.jpg

Kendall Jenner was the highest paid female model in 2018 not because she was a good person, not because she fed the hungry and poor, not even because she chose her body and face. But because the genes of her parents were able to mix in the right way and no hormonal mistakes happening during her time in the womb.

But this woman is praised by the majority of women and she can basically do what she wants and will rarely be condemn by the majority. Not because she is a good person, but because of her looks. :(

Why would a child born with a different sexual orientation than most people be treated with hatred? Why should they be condemned to a life of loneliness and isolation? Why should we condemn such ones and drill into their mind from the moment they are born and aware of their different makeup, that God hates them and will destroy them for eternity.

Humans who are born different from the majority, are different not because they choose to be different but because this world we live in is what cause their plight. Since it was not their choice, should they not be treated as human beings with hope----- and not as cursed by God?


Maybe there is a difference between gays. :eek:

Maybe some are born gay through no choice of their own, and maybe other gays are not really gay but just perverted. Just like some people are overweight because of no fault of their own and other overweight people are such because they are gluttons.

If that’s the case, just being overweight does not automatically condemn a person as a glutton in the eyes of God.

Proverbs 23:20-21 ESV
Do not be not among drunkards or among gluttonous eaters of meat, for the drunkard and the glutton will come to poverty, and slumber will clothe them with rags.

And just being gay does not automatically condemn a person to eternal death. :)

But in our eyes as humans who can’t read the heart, and can’s see how the DNA works, and who were never appointed as judges of what constitutes a right to have eternal life or eternal death, we seem to be quick at judging people.

Something that might blur our spiritual vision is the reality that not all gays are good people, just like not all straight people are good people. :o

Some Catholic priests who are gay have assaulted children which is a violent act that betrays other gays that just want to have a family and live peacefully.

We as a human species tend to group people by race, by nation, by political affiliation, by sexual orientation, by school, by sports team, by wealth, by looks, and so many other things. So when one dark colored person commits a crime, the tendency is to blame all dark persons. When one white person is a Klu-Klux member, then all white person are a part of the Klu Klux Klan, when on gay person does something disgusting, all gays are disgusting.

But the good news is that we are changing. Humans are becoming more aware of the fallen human condition. We don't burn women on the stake anymore because we believe they were witches, like the Salem Witch trials. :doh:

This awareness is helping us to be more tolerant of one another. And that results in being able to live more peacefully with one another.

https://icermediation.files.wordpress.c ... mage-1.jpg

I personally don’t think we can do it on our own. :-|

But that is where your particular belief in God comes in. Erick has reincarnation, Hisclarkness has something else. Some here still believe in a paradise earth, others believe in a heavenly destination. But regardless of our differing beliefs, while we are living “Together” on this fast moving rock, traveling thousands of miles in the emptiness of space, our goal should be to try to live in peace with one another and understand the anomalies that people have to live with and offer them hope instead of condemnation.

https://rmi.org/wp-content/uploads/2017 ... 91171.jpeg

DeborahsTree
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Re: Are Gay People Born Gay?

#10 Post by DeborahsTree » 2 years ago

Yes, there are gays who are born gay.

But there are also those, gays and heterosexuals, who by choice are sexually greedy and will seek ANY and ALL sexual satisfaction available to them either gay or heterosexual or beast as it was among the pagan nations of Bible times.


Deborah

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