Deprogramming from WT - using 'Jehovah' as God's name

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Nicodemus
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Deprogramming from WT - using 'Jehovah' as God's name

#1 Post by Nicodemus » 3 years ago

I have realized that for many of us, there is significant baggage attached to the name of 'Jehovah' since leaving the WT. Additionally, as many know this is really an incorrect and artificial pronunciation of God's covenant name.

When exiting the WT I have found it very helpful to reject and replace much of the language that the WT uses to control thinking for example:

'the Truth'
'Hebrew/Greek Scriptures' vs. 'Old/New Testament' (compare Hebrews 8)
'undeserved kindness' vs. 'grace'
'exercising faith' vs. 'belief'

I have also adopted Biblical language about theology that can aid in understanding our standing before God:

calling Christ "Lord" - something few JWs do
'justification' - we are justified before God and can have assurance that we have life in Christ (1 John 5:11).

In light of this I think that it could be very helpful to ex-JW to start using the name YHWH or Yahweh rather than Jehovah, so that they can start their relationship with God afresh.
Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father! - Philippians 2:11

apollos0fAlexandria
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Re: Deprogramming from WT - using 'Jehovah' as God's name

#2 Post by apollos0fAlexandria » 3 years ago

Honestly I don't feel that this is something to be prescriptive about.

Marina recently gave her testimony on another thread. I think we need to bear in mind that people will have different views on this. I don't think it is wrong to use the name Jehovah. It is one rendering of the divine name. And I don't feel that it is wrong to have a convention for that.

I do believe that the name is misused in many contexts and that it is fine for people to reassess how they use it on a personal basis.

Nicodemus
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Location: us

Re: Deprogramming from WT - using 'Jehovah' as God's name

#3 Post by Nicodemus » 3 years ago

I was just offering a personal observation - I agree that it is not prescriptive, just something that has helped me clear some WT cobwebs out of my head.
Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father! - Philippians 2:11

leaving_quietly
Posts: 761
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Re: Deprogramming from WT - using 'Jehovah' as God's name

#4 Post by leaving_quietly » 3 years ago

My observation is that the name Jehovah is one that WT would have you believe that no one else besides them uses. That is simply not true. I was actually quite surprised when I was watching a video this week of a preacher who believes in the Trinity who called God Jehovah. Our reluctance to use the name is because of our own bias, I think, in that it associates us with WT. The same bias that WT has with using terminology that other Christian denominations use, such as "church". No, no... can't say church... don't want to be associated with false religion. "No, no... can't say Jehovah... don't want to be associated with WT."

That said, I prefer YHWH, Yahweh, God, or better, Father.

Vox Ratio
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Re: Deprogramming from WT - using 'Jehovah' as God's name

#5 Post by Vox Ratio » 3 years ago

leaving_quietly wrote:
3 years ago
My observation is that the name Jehovah is one that WT would have you believe that no one else besides them uses. That is simply not true.
That's right, LQ. It isn't true. For instance, it's remarkable that now more than 1000 MSS have been found from the period of late antiquity and beyond that have the full vowel pronunciation of the Tetragram. You can see a recent discussion of this here.

jo-el
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Re: Deprogramming from WT - using 'Jehovah' as God's name

#6 Post by jo-el » 3 years ago

Vox Ratio wrote:
3 years ago
leaving_quietly wrote:
3 years ago
My observation is that the name Jehovah is one that WT would have you believe that no one else besides them uses. That is simply not true.
That's right, LQ. It isn't true. For instance, it's remarkable that now more than 1000 MSS have been found from the period of late antiquity and beyond that have the full vowel pronunciation of the Tetragram. You can see a recent discussion of this here.
Hi Vox,

I'm slightly confused by this information. Perhaps you are not aware that Michael Rood is a "Hebrew Roots" teacher who promotes an essentially anti-Christian sect and deals in novelties which make information seem more credible than it actually is. Also, his companion Nehemia is apparently a long-term partner. Personally I concluded that this was something like the pronunciation based on the construction of the theophoric names, but of course all the Hebrew "experts" settled on Yahweh reject that this has anything to do with how the name is pronounced. I also didn't really believe this idea that the English pronunciation and the occasional confirmation of something similar in the Latin transliteration just sprang out of nowhere. Having said that, it is still not what I would call "certainty", since there are no ancient Hebrew speakers to confirm it. I would also say that since there is not one recorded instance of the Name being pronounced in the whole New Testament, nor any history of Christians using the Divine Name extensively it is questionable how important this is to Christian faith.

As for the vowel indications which he is talking about, doesn't this really just result in the vowel indications that we already use? I'm just not quite understanding what they are trying to say. You could conclude that the arguments against the current vowels are weakened by this number of manuscripts, but I don't know what these manuscripts are, or whether he is talking about 1000 distinct documents (well he did say 1000 scribes, which sounded a bit ..... ) and they date from 895 onward. This is 800 years after the apostles and only 300 years before the normal narrative starts in 1278, so I just what does it really prove?

Thanks

Joel

jo-el
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Re: Deprogramming from WT - using 'Jehovah' as God's name

#7 Post by jo-el » 3 years ago

leaving_quietly wrote:
3 years ago
My observation is that the name Jehovah is one that WT would have you believe that no one else besides them uses. That is simply not true. I was actually quite surprised when I was watching a video this week of a preacher who believes in the Trinity who called God Jehovah. Our reluctance to use the name is because of our own bias, I think, in that it associates us with WT. The same bias that WT has with using terminology that other Christian denominations use, such as "church". No, no... can't say church... don't want to be associated with false religion. "No, no... can't say Jehovah... don't want to be associated with WT."

That said, I prefer YHWH, Yahweh, God, or better, Father.
That's right - it isn't true - the church I am currently attending also use the name Jehovah quite often when the setting is appropriate. The only company one could keep that place such huge emphasis on using the name YHWH (rather than the name YHWH's Salvation), are other so-called "sacred name" groups, hardly a one of which can agree with the other which way to pronounce the Name. I also think of it this way - what is Gods name? It was given to Moses so he could tell the ancient Israelites I AM THAT I AM or I SHALL PROVE TO BE. Well, our God YHWH has "proved" to be what He "IS" - Salvation, Love and Father

Vox Ratio
Posts: 235
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: Deprogramming from WT - using 'Jehovah' as God's name

#8 Post by Vox Ratio » 3 years ago

Hi jo-el,

I appreciate your insights, thanks.

Yes, I know who Rood is and I'm not endorsing his peculiar form of sectarianism (or any other Hebrew roots movement). The reason for making the citation was to give evidence that LQ's observation was correct – and has been so for hundreds of years – irrespective of whether the Tetragram was originally a trisyllabic formulation. That is to say, many have recognised the sacred name in text and in worship long before its supposed restoration by WT.

As for Gordon, he is a Karaite Jew so I assume that his interpretation of any Masoretic vowel points will be consonant with Peshat (a literal reading). As far as I can tell, his understanding has grown out of research into the Aleppo Codex and his finding that there are scribal marks that don't correspond to the vowels points of Elohim when the name is adjacent to Adonai (such that the reader would avoid saying Adonai twice over).

John S
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Re: Deprogramming from WT - using 'Jehovah' as God's name

#9 Post by John S » 3 years ago

Don't you all think when the hebrew scriptures are quoted, the Apostles and Christ would have known YHWH was the correct translation...not 'Lord'/

It is obvious and historical the Jews took it out of their manuscripts due to the developing superstition it was too sacred to pronounce. This doesn't prove Jesus was supposed to be understood as God....which trinitarian believers are promulgating.

Jesus did say.."I have made your name known."

This would be certainly in view of then the superstition prevailing of NOT using God's name...he was against that. John 17

To say he said this to show he was explaining God, and that is what he MEANT...is putting words in his mouth surely.

Jerome
Posts: 552
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Deprogramming from WT - using 'Jehovah' as God's name

#10 Post by Jerome » 3 years ago

Here is some follow up information of Nehemiah Gordon's discovery:

https://yrm.org/nehemia-gordon-1000-man ... s-yehovah/

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