Anointed & Related Words

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leaving_quietly
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Re: Anointed & Related Words

#11 Post by leaving_quietly » 6 years ago

When I get some time, I'll go through what you wrote, peely. However, this part jumped out at me:
Each of us are chosen personally (John15:16; 2Chron.16:9 A; Rom.9:15,16; Rev.5:9,10; 1Pet.2:9,10; Isa.43:10,21).
I do not think it is just a feeling. When someone contacts us, we know it
(Gal.1:15; Acts9:15; Rom.8:28,30; 1Cor.1:9; Eph.4:1,4; 2Tim.1:9; Heb.9:15; 2Pet.1:10).
Feeling is with the contact, because God speaks to our hearts (2Cor.1:22; Eze.36:27; 2Cor.3:3; Jer.31:33; Deut.6:6,8;Heb.8:10).
I agree it cannot be just a feeling, and I agree that it is God who does the choosing. But I also do not believe it is necessarily personal. The account of what happened with Cornelius and his family, for example, shows that the pouring out of holy spirit was more than just a personal contact and a feeling.
While Peter was still speaking about these matters, the holy spirit came upon all those hearing the word. And the circumcised believers who had come with Peter were amazed, because the free gift of the holy spirit was being poured out also on people of the nations. - Acts 10:44,45
This was visibly seen by others. And, of course, this wasn't the only time it was visible to others. (Acts 2:1-3; Acts 19:5-6)

Of course, this could easily branch out into a whole host of other questions: How does one know if they are anointed? (Well... you just KNOW... is that right?) How does God communicate with us today? If it's by the Bible alone as some claim, then there is no way to "just KNOW" because that would mean that God does indeed communicate in other ways besides the Bible, right? Does God alone communicate with his people? What about Christ? As the head of the body, does he have a role in communicating with his sheep? (My sheep will know my voice...) Are there biblical examples of him doing so? Can communication occur in other ways, such as visions or dreams?

peely
Posts: 343
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Anointed & Related Words

#12 Post by peely » 6 years ago

Hi LQ,

Yes, I understand what you are saying concerning the scriptures in Acts. I believe that in the days of the apostles, the foundation of God’s Temple, Holy Spirit worked in large, evident ways. They were the first channel of truth and thus given more authority and power to spread the truth in the world known at that time. Matt.19:28; Luke22:30; Rev.20:4 In a sense, they hold the key to the “gates” of the Kingdom as they have been given the right to judge the rest of the anointed ones. Rev 21:12; Matt 12:28

This foundation also includes prophets Eph 2:20; 1 Cor 3:10. The apostles cemented the biblical record of truth, while the true prophets give it meaning and application. Both these identities must be accepted by all other anointed for the building up of the Holy City. By reaping with Christ, they reap for Christ – a harvest produced by accepting and acknowledging each other through truth – this truth spoken of by the apostles. Luke 11:23; Matt.10:40,41; John13:20

1 John 4:6 - we -- of God we are; he who is knowing God doth hear us; he who is not of God, doth not hear us; from this we know the spirit of the truth, and the spirit of the error. YLT

Through the earnest heartfelt entreaty by an anointed one to know truth, that one recognizes the evidence of Holy Spirit in other faithful anointed ones. It is the helper that Christ promised; without it, the Body could not build. In order for the Body to build, each individual member must discern those carrying the spirit of truth. John 14:26; Matt.10:40,41; John13:20 Also the ability to distinguish the “spirit of truth” from the “spirit of the error” is vividly seen. Jude 1:12; Matt 12:30

Did you happen to read the thread under Bible Doctrines and Anointed Experiences by yobec? It can give you an idea of what not only a few have experienced through anointing, but also my own. I do believe Christ has the role of communicating with his sheep through Holy Spirit. Matt 10:27; Num 12:5,6

‘And in the last days it will be,’ God says, ‘that I will pour out my Spirit on all people, and your sons and your daughters will prophesy, and your young men will see visions, and your old men will dream dreams. Even on my servants, both men and women,I will pour out my Spirit in those days, and they will prophesy. Acts 2:17,18

This scripture does not only apply to the time period of earthly Jerusalem’s fall, but as with most all of Christ and the apostle’s words there is a future fulfillment. Who are we to think that visions would not be found in our day? It must be so in order to understand the words of Revelation and Daniel as we live the culmination of the last days. Amos 3:7 I find it interesting that even though we are extremely aware of the role of prophets in the bible we cannot fathom any in existence in our day. They are dismissed, as if we are above and beyond that segment and power of God and His guidance. Without a doubt in my mind, it continues to be an integral part in the building of the Body of Christ. I also believe too many souls have been deceived by false prophets to feel the need to seek those blessed with truth.

During the time period of the end, the prophetic message by the symbolic “two witnesses” comes into play. They, too, proclaim the message of Christ; yet it is the revealing message of the “sign of the son of man”. Rev 11:3,4;11:17

Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and all the tribes of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man arriving on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Matt 24:30

I know of one brother who receives scripture in dreams and upon awakening without previous knowledge of what they say, yet it is Christ leading him in truth. I also know of one who has had many visions and brings truth to many anointed and non anointed ones leaving the organization.

http://pearl-winepress.blogspot.com/
http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.c ... +witnesses
http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.c ... ngers.html

love,
peely

leaving_quietly
Posts: 761
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: Anointed & Related Words

#13 Post by leaving_quietly » 6 years ago

Did you happen to read the thread under Bible Doctrines and Anointed Experiences by yobec? It can give you an idea of what not only a few have experienced through anointing, but also my own. I do believe Christ has the role of communicating with his sheep through Holy Spirit. Matt 10:27; Num 12:5,6
I have not. When I get some time, I will, though. I, too, believe Christ communicates with his sheep in various ways. In addition to what you posted, these two verses come to mind.

And I have other sheep, which are not of this fold; those too I must bring in, and they will listen to my voice, and they will become one flock, one shepherd. - John 10:16
My sheep listen to my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. - John 10:27

I know people who claim to literally hear Christ, in addition to visions and dreams. Some folks believe they are nuts, but I do not. The reason I don't is because of the shear depth of things they say Christ has told them, which can be backed up by things recorded in the Bible. I have learned so much from these folks... much more than I have ever learned from WTBTS.

I do not believe the WTBTS claim that God only communicates with us through the Bible. That's ludicrous. Even the Bible says that's not so. (John 14:17; John 14:26; John 15:26)

I have personally experienced two dreams where Christ was in it, but to this day, I do not understand the dreams. The dreams were similar. I still ask for understanding. I recently had another dream with an angel in it that was fairly obvious in it's meaning. I've never had an angel in a dream before, so this was a new one for me. I had a birds-eye view of my street, and two of the homes had numbers over them. The numbers were the addresses. One was over my home. The other over another home, but the number was the address of a relative who lives on the same street. The angel was flying below me, facing the street below him, and calling out, "Preach the Word boldly!". I do not know if that call was directed to me personally, or not. I tend to feel it was. If so, then I have an assignment. That is, to preach Christ to my family, all of whom are JWs. I have been holding back doing so because my wife has adamantly refused to listen to anything I have to say. I don't even know where to begin in this assignment.

Anyway, I too, feel that God and Christ communicate with various people today in various ways. I didn't used to believe that, but the more I hear experiences, the more I believe it.

peely
Posts: 343
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Anointed & Related Words

#14 Post by peely » 6 years ago

Hello LQ,

I find your note very intriguing. Firstly, through Holy Spirit, I believe Christ is trying to tell you something, but that is just my opinion.
Secondly, I am not surprised at all by the WT view of Holy Spirit. What does the WT have to offer but a bit of basic spiritual truth, and that has become tainted with deceit and lies. Rev 8:11 If it is obvious that the Father doesn't back the organization, then Holy Spirit would not reside there. Ps 12:6; Prov 30:5 Which would mean...another type of spirit is in residence; one that would resist God's spirit. Rev 16:13; Rev 13:15

Individually, if we seek Christ, we have Holy Spirit on our side. These are thoughts from Pearl:

"Our heavenly Father has a purpose that is very clear to Him. In line with that purpose, he chooses whoever He wants to in fulfilling the human part of it. Then He guides and empowers that vessel with His spirit, to do what they have been chosen to do. How each of us fits into that purpose is not up to us to fully understand, nor to decide, other than our choice to be faithful, loyal, and obedient. We know the prophetic Word about God's purpose for the chosen ones in general (and in some cases, as individuals). We have faith that this prophetic word will and is coming true. If we genuinely seek to cooperate with it fully, God will bless us with the amount of spirit we need to do so.
I once had a "sister" tell me that I loved one of my daughters more than the other. That same week I had another sister tell me that I loved the other more. I have no idea what motivated such comments, since such a measurement is impossible, and to me, ridiculous. I love my children freely from my heart, with no thought of limit.
Of course, He loves and appreciates a child that is obedient and returns His love. But among these, does He limit his affections?
We are told that the anointed are His firstborn. They are also of the first resurrection, having Christ as life-giving father. (There is no distinction in the Bible for "grandfather")
As such, they are the first display of his power to give life. In this, they hold a place in God's forever family as responsible to represent Him for the benefit of all His earthly children. But God loves all those who love Him, regardless of the order of their spiritual birth.
As we love each of our children for who they are, and not in comparison to another (hopefully);
God's love is boundless toward all those who seek Him in truth. I believe He will bless any of them with the spirit and truth they need, should they ask Him in faith."

Thirdly, you feel that you are to “preach Christ to my family, all of which are JW’s”. I feel you are right and that it is a big job to do. If your dreams are
powered by Holy Spirit, I sure wouldn’t ignore them (and I’m sure you can’t). As we know, the good news is for those repentant among God’s people – those being saved through Christ.

"Therefore, because we know the fear of the Lord, we try to persuade people, but we are well known to God, and I hope we are well known to your consciences too. 12 We are not trying to commend ourselves to you again, but are giving you an opportunity to be proud of us, so that you may be able to answer those who take pride in outward appearance and not in what is in the heart. 13 For if we are out of our minds, it is for God; if we are of sound mind, it is for you. 14 For the love of Christ controls us, since we have concluded this, that Christ died for all; therefore all have died. 15 And he died for all so that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised. 16 So then from now on we acknowledge no one from an outward human point of view. Even though we have known Christ from such a human point of view, now we do not know him in that way any longer. 17 So then, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; what is old has passed away—look, what is new has come! 18 And all these things are from God who reconciled us to himself through Christ, and who has given us the ministry of reconciliation. 19 In other words, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting people’s trespasses against them, and he has given us the message of reconciliation. 20 Therefore we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making His plea through us. We plead with you on Christ’s behalf, “Be reconciled to God!” 21 God made the one who did not know sin to be sin for us, so that in him we would become the righteousness of God." 2 Cor 5:11-21

But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled only to those who are perishing 2 Cor 4:3
2Tim.3:7,5; Isa.6:9; 29:10; Rom.11:8; 2Thess.2:4,10; (1Cor.3:16); 2Thess2:13; Rev.14:4; Eph.1:12,11

I know I’ve given you a lot of links to Pearl’s site, but here’s one more:) on Holy Spirit at work. In answer to another’s questions, she describes her own dreams as a time of learning. I do encourage you to send her a note; you may find her very helpful in understanding your own experiences.

http://4womaninthewilderness.blogspot.c ... -work.html

Lastly, I will pray for your situation at home; I believe many of us know just what circumstance you face.
love
peely

Bobcat
Posts: 3716
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Anointed & Related Words

#15 Post by Bobcat » 2 years ago

A few other posts I wanted to link here for being related subject wise:
1. This was a post that analyzed the word "token" in relation to being adopted: Here.

2. This post has links to threads tying the "great crowd" to the New Covenant and being anointed: Here and additionally here.

3. This post has quoted material from the first post in this thread, but discussion related to the WT's motives in using the terms: Here.

4. This post has some reasoning on being anointed (or not) based on Romans chapter 8: Here.

5. This post had some reference material regarding who "new creation" applied to, and whether it applied to Jesus.

6. This thread analyzes the term rendered "declare righteous" or "justified."

7. This thread has discussion on the term "immortality" and a link to a thread on 1 Timothy 6:15-16, which is very much related to the meaning of the term immortality.

8. This post has word study references to the words, "Corruption," "Incorruption," "Mortal," and "Immortality."

I'm hoping that all this interlinking, over time, will create a truly impressive and useful research tool out of this site.


Bobcat

Bobcat
Posts: 3716
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Anointed & Related Words

#16 Post by Bobcat » 1 year ago

I added two more links to the post just above (post # 15). (They are the last two links in that post.) They (the last two links) are related to the word "immortality" and also 1Tim 6:15-16 which is very much related to the meaning of the word "immortality." And there is a relationship between "immortality" and "anointed" which is the main subject of this thread.


Bobcat

Bobcat
Posts: 3716
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Anointed & Related Words

#17 Post by Bobcat » 1 year ago

The links in this post are related to the subject of the 144,000. I don't consider the 144,000 to be the only "anointed" Christians as does the WT. But because many do, this thread is the opportune place to store these links for future reference.
1. This link shows the position of Rev 7:1-8 in the chiastic structure of Revelation where the description of the 144,000 represents a more complete description of the "full number" referred to in Rev 6:9-11.

2. This post has discussion of the 144,000 and a number of related links.

3. This post also has a discussion of the 144,000 somewhat similar to the previous link.

4. This post shows the chiastic structure of the account of the rich man (Mt 19:16-22) and Jesus' discussion with his disciples afterwards (Mt 19:23-29) as well as the parable of the vineyard workers (Mt 20:1-16) and its possible relationship with the 144,000 (where "first" in the parable would equate roughly with "firstfruits" in Rev 14:4 and the 11th hour workers and what they represent would equate with the 144,000 being drawn evenly from all twelve tribes of the sons of Israel in Rev 7:4-8 (which I view as Christianity, not natural Israel).

5. This post has some comments on the nature of the tribal listing in Rev 7:1-8.

6. See post # 35 in this thread for a link to a post that has a couple of interesting footnotes from the NET Bible regarding the "many abodes" of Jn 14:2.

7. On the 144,000 being martyrs and equal to the "full number" of Rev 6:11, and some of the ramifications of that, see this post.

For comparison, since the "great crowd" often comes up in any topic about the 144,000, below are some threads on that topic:
1. Great Crowd, Abrahamic Covenant, and New Covenant

2. 10 Gentiles Taking Hold of a Jew (Zech 8:23)

3. Zechariah 8:23 & Isaiah 45:14

4. On the idea of the great crowd not being able to be numbered (Rev 7:9) and comparing with the promise to Abraham (Gen 13:16; 15:5; 17:4-6; 35:11) see this post. The upshot of this post is that 144,000 falls far short of what was meant by 'the stars and grains of sand for multitude.'

This post is also referenced in post # 1 of this thread, near the bottom of the post, in the "additional points" section (# 4) near the bottom of the post. I also added a section in post # 1 on the term "firstfruits" and how it is used in the NT. Poster leaving_quietly raised a question about this term in post # 6 of this thread.


Bobcat

yobec
Posts: 28
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: Anointed & Related Words

#18 Post by yobec » 3 months ago

Interestingly, because the WT holds that only the 144,000 are "anointed," Rev 7:3-4 forces them to also hold that they get a second, final 'sealing' sometime prior to their death. But this second sealing idea somewhat contradicts Eph 4:30 which speaks of Christians being 'sealed' (the first time) with the Holy Spirit for 'the day of redemption' ("day of releasing" - NWT). Christians do not need a second 'sealing.' This is part of the subtle contradictions that occur with the WT's idea of only 144,000 being 'anointed.'
Greetings Bobcat,

I found your reference of Eph 4:30 to show that the teaching of the secondary sealing as taught by the org is false, fascinating. Why did I not ever make that connection. I don't know but thanks for this precious little gem.

There was an article in the Watchtower, sometime around 1974 that explained about the first and secondary sealing.The second sealing was to show the permanence of the first one. Consequently, the logic continued, that there needs to be a long time of faithful service before the second sealing occurs and since we were so close to the end, it would be unlikely that someone at this "late date" (1974),would be chosen with the "first call". It further added that, at this late date, if someone was to receive the initial call, it would have to be someone that has been faithfully active for perhaps several decades.

Of course that set the tone for viewing as suspicious anyone who suddenly started to partake at the memorial. I for one regretfully spoke maliciously about such ones.

Ironically, several years later, 22 to be exact (1996), I received the undeniable testimony of the spirit.

Needless to say, I was overjoyed but at the same time, fearful as I realized that from this time onward, I would most likely be treated in the same manner as I had treated others. For a split second, I thought perhaps that I could simply not partake at the next memorial but quickly realized that it was not an option. I chose to move congregation some 700 miles away and much to my surprise, upon arrival to my new congregation, there were 2 more partakers in their 40's.

Anyways, once again, thanks for that little gem.

Bobcat
Posts: 3716
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: Anointed & Related Words

#19 Post by Bobcat » 3 months ago

Hi yobec,

I hope you don't mind that I reformatted your post to make it easier on the eyes (only the paragraph breaks). I thought it was a very good post and wanted your experience to stand out.

I had a similar mental struggling the first time I partook and leading up to it. (Here was my first instance of partaking. And here was my experience giving the Memorial talk when I first partook.)

You appear to have woken up a few years before I did. I was getting there but it just took a bit longer.

Thank you also for the background regarding why WT holds to a final sealing. I put a reference to your post right after the part you quoted from in post # 1. The WT you might be referring to is possibly w73 12/1 p. 730.


Bobcat

yobec
Posts: 28
Joined: 6 years ago

Re: Anointed & Related Words

#20 Post by yobec » 3 months ago

Actually, thank you for reformatting my post. It is definitely better on the eyes. To be more precise, my spiritual calling occured in April of 1996 but my awakening slowly began in 2002.
I must say that it is becoming easier and easier to freely express our experiences, without beeing thought of as: seeking admiration, beeing mentally or emotionally unstable or worse yet , an outright fraud.

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