Arianism

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AmosAU
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Arianism

#1 Post by AmosAU » 1 week ago

I'm starting this new thread regarding Arianism to hopefully shed some lite on what it is, and what it is not. Over the years there's been much controversial thoughts about Arianism. I'm of the opinion that many who use the term, don't properly understand what it really is. This is not surprising, as most of the writings of Arius were destroyed in the 4th century. What we do absolutely know is; he rejected the trinity doctrine.

Here are 2 articles that discuss the topic of Arianism.

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Arianism

This next article is quite important as it includes the subheading of "Beliefs". I believe that it is important to digest this section and perhaps do some personal research.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arianism

In light of the above articles, plus additional research that I've done over the years, I could NOT call myself an Arian.

Regards,
Amos.

Proselytiser of Jah
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Re: Arianism

#2 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 1 week ago

I've regarded Arianism simply as a term referring to " pre-existant Christ non-trinitarianiansm".

There is of course a lot of variation in it. But it helps to distinguish I find from other positions, like Unitarianism, and is a good way to explain at a glance that you believe Jesus isn't God but existed before he was on Earth.


But I'm curious Amos, if you don't like the term, do you have a specific preference? Or your own variation/understanding of this theology?
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

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Re: Arianism

#3 Post by Stranger » 1 week ago

I was just reading this article this morning. It has some "commentary about Arius and his ism" contained within.https://news.yahoo.com/no-one-truly-gra ... p_catchall



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AmosAU
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Re: Arianism

#4 Post by AmosAU » 1 week ago

Proselytiser of Jah wrote:
1 week ago
I've regarded Arianism simply as a term referring to " pre-existant Christ non-trinitarianiansm".

There is of course a lot of variation in it. But it helps to distinguish I find from other positions, like Unitarianism, and is a good way to explain at a glance that you believe Jesus isn't God but existed before he was on Earth.


But I'm curious Amos, if you don't like the term, do you have a specific preference? Or your own variation/understanding of this theology?
It doesn't matter what you or I use a "term" (any term) for. What needs to be understood is what the majority of other people perceive this term to refer to or understand the term to mean.

Did you take the time to read the 2 articles I posted? The second article section of "Beliefs," is really important to understand.
Over a decade ago, I did extensive research into the Trinity and Arian beliefs. I was actually very surprised when I saw the history surrounding the whole theology of the debate, and how the church went around formalizing the Trinity as their standard concept of God.

To answer your question, I call myself a follower of the way.
As another issue, due to the beliefs and practices of the first century followers of Yeshua/Jesus, I don't call myself a Christian anymore. It appears to have been added into the manuscripts around the second century. Plus all the atrocities that have been committed in the name of Christianity, are something I want to distance myself from.

Regards, Amos.

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Re: Arianism

#5 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 1 week ago

AmosAU wrote:
1 week ago


Did you take the time to read the 2 articles I posted? The second article section of "Beliefs," is really important to understand.

Looking over the beliefs you linked from the articles:
"the Son, who is mutable, must, therefore, be deemed a creature who has been called into existence out of nothing and has had a beginning. Moreover, the Son can have no direct knowledge of the Father, since the Son is finite and of a different order of existence."
Don't see anything wrong here. Jesus has to be taught by the Father, as opposed to being "one" with him in a single body, because he was created separate from him. (Matthew 24:36)

According to its opponents, especially the bishop St. Athanasius, Arius’s teaching reduced the Son to a demigod, reintroduced polytheism
Obviously this is what opponents claim, but I see no vadility in it. So if people call Arians polytheists, that's their problem. Can't avoid that no matter what, whether you say you're non-trinitarian or some other label.

Arianism taught that the Logos was a divine being begotten by God the Father before the creation of the world, made him a medium through whom everything else was created, and that the Son of God is subordinate to God the Father
Don't see anything wrong here either.
The creed of Arian Ulfilas (c. 311–383), which concludes a letter praising him written by Auxentius,[33] distinguishes God the Father ("unbegotten"), who is the only true God, from Son of God ("only-begotten"), who is Lord/Master; and the Holy Spirit, the illuminating and sanctifying power, who is neither God the Father nor Lord/Master:
I disagree with the latter position, obviously Jesus has been made to be our Lord and Master, who acts on behalf of his Father in the authoritative station He granted to him. But this is the creed of Ulfias, not "Arianism" as a whole. I would regard Ulfilas' statement even to be possibly antichrist.


As for what Arius has to say...
But we say and believe and have taught, and do teach, that the Son is not unbegotten, nor in any way part of the unbegotten; and that he does not derive his subsistence from any matter; but that by his own will and counsel he has subsisted before time and before ages as perfect as God, only begotten and unchangeable, and that before he was begotten, or created, or purposed, or established, he was not. For he was not unbegotten. We are persecuted because we say that the Son has a beginning but that God is without beginning.
I agree with this statement almost in whole, but there is one questionable part, which says "Jesus was perfect as God". That to me would almost be putting Jesus on the same level as God, for God is unreachable in his perfection. There is no equal to him in "any" way. And thus, I can see why some people accused him polytheism in that case.

I would say Jesus was as perfect as a "created being" could be. We know Jesus is "the image" or "the likeness" of God, but in no way could be equal to God in any manner. Even the scriptures make this clear when they say "God cannot be tempted" but Jesus "was" tempted (and had to resist that temptation, which is why he is an "empathic high priest"). Therefore, implying a differentiation, and not equality of perfection.

So I can see your concerns I suppose. The question remains is, "how others perceive and understand" the position, you are correct.
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

AmosAU
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Re: Arianism

#6 Post by AmosAU » 1 week ago

Hi POJ,

Thanks for your reply.

My purpose in starting the thread was for general educational purposes. Many people don't know what a lot of church doctrines really mean. (I don't mean yourself POJ)
To me, there is a difference between Arianism and non-Trinitarian beliefs.
It seems that most conversation is about the Trinity, with very little said about non-Trinitarian views. It just seems to be lopsided.

Regards, Amos.

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