"Was John 6:4 added to the Bible?"

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Proselytiser of Jah
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Re: "Was John 6:4 added to the Bible?"

#11 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 2 weeks ago

Stranger wrote: 2 weeks ago If you haven't read this yet, it may be of value to you Proz.
https://textualwarfare.blogspot.com/201 ... bible.html


Stranger
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"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

Proselytiser of Jah
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Re: "Was John 6:4 added to the Bible?"

#12 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 2 weeks ago

FriendlyDoggo wrote: 2 weeks ago Hi PoJ, don't trust Nehemia's claims:
Appreciate the source of good counter arguments against his research.

My question is (and this is a different topic now, since the video you shared is on the topic of the divine name), is, what is his motivation? Why would Nehemia promote the name "Yehovah", if most Jews and Messianic Jew types reject it as a "Catholic lie/error"? A lot of people claim Yahweh is the name, and not Yehovah, but they are people who have something against Christians usually, or the Catholic scribes. So I find it strange that Nehemia would defend "Yehovah" willingly, and would try to get other Jews to use the name, even though he himself is not Christian, nor a believer in Jesus as the Messiah.

Very odd that he would lie or have a bias, to support a rendition that many Jews have an issue with and regard as a "Christian lie". Nehemia I find has shown some good arguments against Yahweh as well (explaining via the term "Hallelujah" and how these words are constructed, and suggesting Yahweh is a Samaritan rendition of Jupiter, as opposed to the real divine name).

I shall watch this guy's videos though and see what he has to say against him. He seems to have strong argumentation.
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

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Illusive
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Re: "Was John 6:4 added to the Bible?"

#13 Post by Illusive » 2 weeks ago

Proselytiser of Jah wrote: 2 weeks ago
Illusive wrote: 2 weeks ago People who argue that verses were added usually are trying to defend some niche theological stance. I'm always seeing weird fringe guys say "I think X verse was added because it disagrees with my stance on Y"
This is actually mentioned in the video series, and they claim that is not their goal and that bias should "never" be the agenda, but they have to have actual evidence (in this case historical and manuscript evidence, and even citing the church fathers). For me, I don't wish to make an assumption or bias either way. There is either evidence for these things, or there isn't.

For this specific scripture, it doesn't even change any major doctrines either, but the topic really is the length of Christ's ministry and how this one scripture potentially changes that, depending on its authenticity.
Forgive me if I have not understood and correct me if I have spoken in error since I have not yet watched the video. But it changes a lot to say the least if it was not actually the case that passover was nearing during the Last Supper and would allow cynical minds and heretics to question whether the prophecies were fulfilled. I suspect it is a manner of chipping away at scripture. So without even thinking much about it my first thought and suspicion is that people who would've tried to remove that verse in the past, even if they are not the ones in that video, might be the sort who'd like to deny that Christ died on passover.

Consider the following as well - during Passover, the crying of lambs would've been heard as Christ was led carrying his cross. We call him the passover lamb because he literally is the passover lamb as it was prophesized by the Prophet Isaiah.

The lambs would've been slaughtered that evening, and their cries could be heard throughout the whole city, and Christ would be slaughtered along with them.


We call this a sorrowful mystery and a fulfillment of the Prophet Isaiah's writings when he says

Isaiah 53:7

He was oppressed and He was afflicted,
Yet He did not open His mouth;
Like a lamb that is led to slaughter,
And like a sheep that is silent before its shearers,
So He did not open His mouth.



Consider also the symbolism of Numbers 9:12, which commands that not a single bone of the lamb sacrificed during passover should be broken.

Numbers 9:12

They shall leave none of it until morning, nor break a bone of it; according to all the statute of the Passover they shall observe it.


Which is also a prophecy and foreshadowing that is mentioned by King David.

Psalms 34:20

He keeps all his bones,
Not one of them is broken.



and that prophecy would be fulfilled on passover by Christ. The Sorrowful Mystery.
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Re: "Was John 6:4 added to the Bible?"

#14 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 2 weeks ago

Illusive wrote: 2 weeks ago
Forgive me if I have not understood and correct me if I have spoken in error
You make good potential points. I don't think this series is actually claiming Jesus was not killed on/near passover however. In fact they mention this in their reasoning, in how the chronology of Jesus' death and all these events, work better (including his death in relation to passover) if you remove John 6:4, because they claim it implies multiple passovers and Sabbaths going on in a very short time frame and doesn't hold up textually or chronologically according to the Gospel events, (at least that was my understanding of the chart, I may have misinterpreted, and if they are trying to claim Jesus did not die on passover, then I completely take that back).

They mention in the series, that it is not their original argument either (meaning they did not "invent" this claim, or were not the "first to discover" the issue), but many Protestant scholars historically have also suggested the same reasoning.
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Re: "Was John 6:4 added to the Bible?"

#15 Post by Illusive » 2 weeks ago

Maybe I should not have posted without watching the video.
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FriendlyDoggo
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Re: "Was John 6:4 added to the Bible?"

#16 Post by FriendlyDoggo » 2 weeks ago

Proselytiser of Jah wrote: 2 weeks ago
FriendlyDoggo wrote: 2 weeks ago Hi PoJ, don't trust Nehemia's claims:
Appreciate the source of good counter arguments against his research.

My question is (and this is a different topic now, since the video you shared is on the topic of the divine name), is, what is his motivation? Why would Nehemia promote the name "Yehovah", if most Jews and Messianic Jew types reject it as a "Catholic lie/error"?
I think his motivations are very clear :lol:

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Re: "Was John 6:4 added to the Bible?"

#17 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 2 weeks ago

FriendlyDoggo wrote: 2 weeks ago
I think his motivations are very clear :lol:

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Re: "Was John 6:4 added to the Bible?"

#18 Post by AmosAU » 2 weeks ago

Greetings everyone.

I've been aware of Nehemia Gordon for well over a decade. I believe he is a genuine student of both history and the bible, both testaments.

Nehemia is not an orthodox Jew, but rather a Karaite Jew. They accept the Tanach as being complete in itself, withoud need for the Talmud, Mishna or any other rabbinical writings.

Please look at things objectively.

Regards, Amos.

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