Divine Simplicity - who here knows it?

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AmosAU
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Re: Divine Simplicity - who here knows it?

#11 Post by AmosAU » 2 weeks ago

Illusive wrote: 2 weeks ago Feel free to ask any questions and I'll try to help, maybe your disappointment can be alleviated. I myself find the topic of divine simplicity interesting and look forward to knowing your thoughts.
Sorry, that was a typo.

It should have read, "I'm NOT disappointed."

Regards, Amos.

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Illusive
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Re: Divine Simplicity - who here knows it?

#12 Post by Illusive » 2 weeks ago

AmosAU wrote: 2 weeks ago
Illusive wrote: 2 weeks ago Feel free to ask any questions and I'll try to help, maybe your disappointment can be alleviated. I myself find the topic of divine simplicity interesting and look forward to knowing your thoughts.
Sorry, that was a typo.

It should have read, "I'm NOT disappointed."

Regards, Amos.
Oh thats good to hear! I misunderstood.
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simplyme
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Re: Divine Simplicity - who here knows it?

#13 Post by simplyme » 2 weeks ago

Welcome Illusive,

I had not heard of the Divine Simplicity teaching before now but what you have described resonates with what I have been studying. I personally see nothing controversial about it.

I know this can easily get into word games which I don’t want to do. I’m just trying to understand this a bit more.

So if after you die your essence continues to exist are you technically still existing just not in the physical world?

Could you say our essence comes from God so is actually a part of God? Could the same be said of anything living in the material world, that it comes from God?

goghtherefore
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Re: Divine Simplicity - who here knows it?

#14 Post by goghtherefore » 2 weeks ago

Hi Illusive

Regardless of the complexity (from a human position)...this scripture presents The Supreme One's nature and care, imo:

Not one sparrow can fall to the ground without God knowing it. And the very hairs on our heads are all numbered. So don’t worry; we are more valuable to him than many sparrows. (Matthew 10:29-31)

Scientists study different dimensions; dimensions beyond my imagination.

Job 11:7

“Can you discover the depths of God?
Can you discover the limits of the Almighty?

https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/ ... erstanding

.02,

goghtherefore
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

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Re: Divine Simplicity - who here knows it?

#15 Post by goghtherefore » 2 weeks ago

...Regarding post #8: ..."... and we strive to understand him through the finite words which are mere reflections of his infinite logos."

The phrase "infinite logos" moves me to question:

Logos/Word it seems is described as "beginning of his ways" Proverbs 8:22 (New International Version)
“The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;...). As the Supreme One is without beginning, before His first "expression" or "bringing forth" the First Expression/Logos/Word; Should not be referred to as Father...(until He became Father).

.02,

goghtherefore
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

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Re: Divine Simplicity - who here knows it?

#16 Post by Illusive » 2 weeks ago

simplyme wrote: 2 weeks ago Welcome Illusive,

I had not heard of the Divine Simplicity teaching before now but what you have described resonates with what I have been studying. I personally see nothing controversial about it.

I know this can easily get into word games which I don’t want to do. I’m just trying to understand this a bit more.

So if after you die your essence continues to exist are you technically still existing just not in the physical world?

Could you say our essence comes from God so is actually a part of God? Could the same be said of anything living in the material world, that it comes from God?
We ourselves cannot logically be a part of God as that would lead to a form of pantheism I believe. The cosmological argument from contingency also demonstrates logically why it is impossible that God could have parts. We exist apart from God, but everything we have originates from God. Meaning, there is no attribute we have that is not perfect within God. It is the case that we exist within Gods knowledge, but we are not Gods knowledge, because if we were Gods knowledge, we would also be God, and we are not since we lack knowledge.

For example, we know about love. But our human conception of love is so limited in comparison to Gods eternal love, meaning, Gods love is boundless and it is impossible that we could ever hope to explore the depths of the eternity of love without being eternal ourselves. In order to perceive the eternal, one must be eternal, and since we are only finite.

I would contend that after death your essence continues to exist yes, because I'd reckon that nothing that God knows can stop being something that God knows.
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Re: Divine Simplicity - who here knows it?

#17 Post by Illusive » 2 weeks ago

goghtherefore wrote: 2 weeks ago ...Regarding post #8: ..."... and we strive to understand him through the finite words which are mere reflections of his infinite logos."

The phrase "infinite logos" moves me to question:

Logos/Word it seems is described as "beginning of his ways" Proverbs 8:22 (New International Version)
“The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old;...). As the Supreme One is without beginning, before His first "expression" or "bringing forth" the First Expression/Logos/Word; Should not be referred to as Father...(until He became Father).

.02,

goghtherefore
A good definition of the word logos that I am using can be cited from the PBS glossary, which I think does a decent job of explaining the definition.

A principle originating in classical Greek thought which refers to a universal divine reason, immanent in nature, yet transcending all oppositions and imperfections in the cosmos and humanity. An eternal and unchanging truth present from the time of creation, available to every individual who seeks it. A unifying and liberating revelatory force which reconciles the human with the divine; manifested in the world as an act of God's love in the form of the Christ.

Logos - Longer definition: The Greek word logos (traditionally meaning word, thought, principle, or speech) has been used among both philosophers and theologians. In most of its usages, logos is marked by two main distinctions - the first dealing with human reason (the rationality in the human mind which seeks to attain universal understanding and harmony), the second with universal intelligence (the universal ruling force governing and revealing through the cosmos to humankind, i.e., the Divine).



We say God is the eternal logos because he has an eternal knowledge, an eternal word, an eternal reason and mind, and he is not separate from his own knowledge, but whatever he has, he is. Because there is nothing within him that is not simply him, and the words used to describe him such as "knowledge" or "wisdom" are merely finite conceptual words to describe what we perceive in God, such as his love, reason, wisdom and knowledge, but all of these things are not really separate things in God.

We call these virtual distinctions. Distinctions made only in the mind, because since we are composite beings we have to thing in terms of composites, to try and describe God, who is non-composition.

Also, it is often the case that when scripture describes "the beginning" of what God is doing, it is not a beginning within time. Since God does not act within time. It is not even an adequate expression to use the word "created", since in our language the word "created" indicates a moment within time that God acted, but since God acts outside of time, he did not "create" in the sense that we create things. His act of creation is of his eternal act. So we use words like "In the beginning" but in who's beginning? Gods beginning, and God has no beginning because he always was.
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AmosAU
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Re: Divine Simplicity - who here knows it?

#18 Post by AmosAU » 2 weeks ago

A scripture that comes to mind regarding this topic is;

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 

Just a thought.

I'm enjoying this topic. I have a busy schedule today, but will be back later.

Regards, Amos.

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Illusive
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Re: Divine Simplicity - who here knows it?

#19 Post by Illusive » 2 weeks ago

AmosAU wrote: 2 weeks ago A scripture that comes to mind regarding this topic is;

Gen 2:7  And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. 

Just a thought.

I'm enjoying this topic. I have a busy schedule today, but will be back later.

Regards, Amos.
Here is a cool and useful video on the topic made by a friend of mine.




as well as this video which uses some more advanced terminology as well

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AmosAU
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Re: Divine Simplicity - who here knows it?

#20 Post by AmosAU » 2 weeks ago

Thanks for these videos, Illusive.

They do make a certain sense.

Regards, Amos.

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