What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

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johnamos2.0
Posts: 98
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Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

#31 Post by johnamos2.0 » 2 weeks ago

You didn't answer any of the questions. Is it because you prefer not to answer them? Or is it because you don't know the answers?
I didn't realize you were a 3rd grade teacher/and 3rd grade student at the same time. :lol:

I said I understood your point to #1 and I asked you a question that answered #2.

Anyway, here you go so that we can move on to answering my question to you:
Question #1a: Why do you think the 144,000 have the name of the Lamb and the name of his father written on their foreheads?
Question #1b: What do you think it means?
Because it is showing that they belong to Jehovah and Jesus. How technical do you want me to get with the answer, I said I get your point.
Question #2a: Why do you think the Harlot has a name written on her forehead?
To identify her.
[And upon her forehead was written a name, a mystery:*+ “Babylon* the Great, the mother of the harlots]
Question #2b: Whose name do you think it is?
Hers
Question #2c: Do you think it is her own name?
YES
She has fallen! Babylon+ the Great has fallen,

___________________________

Who do you say SHE is referring to?

Sevenz
Posts: 35
Joined: 7 months ago
Location: Texas

Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

#32 Post by Sevenz » 2 weeks ago

Hi Johnamos,

You asked:
Who do you say SHE is referring to?
I will answer your question by quoting what you said earlier.

This is what you said:
the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”
That is correct! Yes, SHE is "the great city". No question about it, SHE is "Babylon the great city".

Now, with regards to your answers:

You said that the purpose for the names being written on the foreheads of the 144,000 was to "show that they belong to Jehovah and Jesus". You answered correctly.
So in this case, the "rule" is: A name or names written on a person's forehead identifies the persons' owner; it identifies who the person serves or worships.

Now I have to wonder why you think that a different "rule" would apply when it comes to the name written on the Harlot's forehead. In her case, you say the name does NOT identify her owner or who she serves or worships. In other words, you are saying that the Bible is INCONSISTENT !!!

I, therefore, have to say that you failed the test because you only scored 50% of the answers correct.

Thanks for working with me on this. It has become all the more clear to me that both you and the Watchtower Society need to give more thought to this matter.

Sevenz

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Stranger
Posts: 2248
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Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

#33 Post by Stranger » 2 weeks ago

Sevenz wrote:
2 weeks ago
SHE is "the great city". No question about it, SHE is "Babylon the great city".

We were born here in that city
with our backs against the wall
nothing grows here that's pretty

But out beyond that whore risin'
stands Zion's city committee.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pNTDHataGtw


Stranger, (Is 8:18)

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FriendlyDoggo
Posts: 122
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Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

#34 Post by FriendlyDoggo » 2 weeks ago

Hello Sevenz, I hope you don't mind if I answer it:
Question #1: Revelation 14:1 says that the 144,000 have the name of the Lamb and the name of his Father written on their foreheads. Why do you think the 144,000 have those two names written on their foreheads? What do you think it means?
Matthew 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, (emphasis added)

We all are the 144.000 through baptism.

Rev 1:6 and has made us to be a kingdom and priests to serve his God and Father —to him be glory and power for ever and ever! Amen.
Question #2: Revelation 17:5 says that the Harlot has a name written on her forehead. Why do you think she has a name written on her forehead? Whose name do you think it is? Do you think it is her own name?
Rev 17:5 The name written on her forehead was a mystery: babylon the great the mother of prostitutes and of the abominations of the earth. (emphasis added)

Babylon is her symbolic name, the name of the woman in John's vision, but not the real thing.

Hope it helps. :)
My english isn't very good, sorry any inconvenience.

johnamos2.0
Posts: 98
Joined: 1 month ago

Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

#35 Post by johnamos2.0 » 2 weeks ago

why you think that a different "rule" would apply when it comes to the name written on the Harlot's forehead.
In other words, you are saying that the Bible is INCONSISTENT !!!
You are the one making it rule. I have showed you from the verse itself why I conclude the SHE (the woman/the harlot) is BTG and yet you choose not to address this verse but instead use another one that has the word 'city' in it to continue to fit with what you believe. You apparently are the one that is being INCONSISTENT with what the Bible says. There is a verse that CLEARLY says THE WOMAN means 'the great city'. You and I accept that statement. But there is also a verse that says 'SHE' (the WOMAN) is BTG and yet you ignore that for some reason. :arrow:


[8 And another, a second angel,* followed, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon+ the Great has fallen,] :?:

[“Come, I will show you the judgment upon the great harlot*+ ...And upon her forehead was written a name, a mystery:*+ “Babylon* the Great, the mother of the harlots+ and of the disgusting things of the earth.”...I will tell you the mystery* of the woman+ and of the wild beast that is carrying her...And the woman+ whom you saw means* the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.”+]
_____________________________

The following shows the age of 'the woman' and it dates back to all 7 heads, she doesn't just come into existence when the beast is the 8th king.

[“Here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in:+ The seven heads+ mean* seven mountains,+ where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are* seven kings: five have fallen,+ one is,+ the other has not yet arrived,+ but when he does arrive he must remain a short while.+ 11 And the wild beast that was but is not,+ it is also itself an eighth [king], but springs from the seven,* and it goes off into destruction.]

Sevenz
Posts: 35
Joined: 7 months ago
Location: Texas

Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

#36 Post by Sevenz » 2 weeks ago

Hi Johnamos. I hope that you are staying strong spiritually.

You stated:
You are the one making it rule.
The Bible itself set the example, and that's what I must go by. So, no, I didn't "make" the rule. You have yet to appreciate that the Bible is indeed setting an example. And it is resulting in your not being able to discern the FACT that there exists an entity that is called "Babylon the Great" (period) THAT IS NOT A CITY. It's an entity that is separate from and stands in contrast to the woman that IS A CITY. Not long after the Flood the people built a city that was called "Babel". Those people also built what was called the "Tower of Babel". So there was the City of Babel and the Tower of Babel. Similarly, in the Revelation account we are reading about a Harlot called "Babylon the great city" and a one-world government called "Babylon the Great". (Frankly I don't really see any need or reason to make the "G" uppercase.)
I have showed you from the verse itself why I conclude the SHE (the woman/the harlot) is BTG and yet you choose not to address this verse but instead use another one that has the word 'city' in it to continue to fit with what you believe. You apparently are the one that is being INCONSISTENT with what the Bible says.
That's because I refuse to close my eyes to what the COMPLETE account reveals about the woman's name and what she symbolizes. The woman is clearly referred to as "Babylon the great city"!
And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.--Revelation 18:21.
There is a verse that CLEARLY says THE WOMAN means 'the great city'. You and I accept that statement. But there is also a verse that says 'SHE' (the WOMAN) is BTG and yet you ignore that for some reason.
I never ignore anything the Bible says, and I haven't ignored the verse you are referring to, which is at Revelation 18 verse 2, as follows:
2 And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a place where every unclean spirit and every unclean and hated bird lurks!
Verses 10 and 21 make it clear that THIS "Babylon the great" is talking about a CITY, which you agree with, as follows:
10 They will stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and say: ‘Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!’
21 And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.
Yes it is perfectly clear that THIS "Babylon the great" is talking about a CITY. But the woman has a name written on her forehead that reveals that there is a separate entity that is called "Babylon the great" (with or without an uppercase "g"). It's an entity that she serves or worships, and is the reason why the name is on her forehead to begin with.

Let's take a look at Revelation 13:16,17. I think that it might help you.

This is what it says:
16 It [the wild beast aka the 8th king aka a one-world government] puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name
So we see here additional evidence that a name written on the forehead signifies who the person serves or worships.

Now let's check out Revelation 20 verse 4:
4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.
Really, Johnamos, does anyone need any more proof that a name written on the forehead signifies who the person serves or worships?

This is what you said last:
The following shows the age of 'the woman' and it dates back to all 7 heads, she doesn't just come into existence when the beast is the 8th king.

[“Here is where the intelligence that has wisdom comes in: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet arrived, but when he does arrive he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also itself an eighth [king], but springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.]

If what you are saying is true, that the Harlot has operated from the time of ancient Egypt down to the present day, then you shouldn't have the least problem with knowing exactly who SHE is. So I don't know why you are asking me.

Thanks for conversing, Johnamos. And thanks for studying your Bible.

Sevenz
.

johnamos2.0
Posts: 98
Joined: 1 month ago

Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

#37 Post by johnamos2.0 » 2 weeks ago

verse you are referring to, which is at Revelation 18 verse 2,
Actually, I was referring to Rev 14:8

8 And another, a second angel,* followed, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon+ the Great has fallen,+

Yes it is perfectly clear that THIS "Babylon the great"...is the woman/the great harlot and mother of harlots.


In Rev every mention of BTG it is connected to the woman/harlot. Can you show me one instance were the mention of BTG is connected to the wild beast/8th king :?:

_____________________________

If you are making the claim that the wild beast/8th king's name is 'Babylon the Great', then that means the 'mark' will say BTG, if that's the beast's name and the number that represents the name BTG is 666. Is that correct :?:

[16 And it puts under compulsion all persons,+ the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead,+ 17 and* that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark,* the name+ of the wild beast or the number of its name.+ 18 Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s+ number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six.]

Sevenz
Posts: 35
Joined: 7 months ago
Location: Texas

Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

#38 Post by Sevenz » 2 weeks ago

Can you show me one instance were the mention of BTG is connected to the wild beast/8th king :?:
I already did. How in heaven's name did you miss it!

If you are making the claim that the wild beast/8th king's name is 'Babylon the Great', then that means the 'mark' will say BTG, if that's the beast's name and the number that represents the name BTG is 666. Is that correct :?:
You have that much correct!!!

Proverbs 2:1-6 according to the New World Translation (2013 Revision) Something we all need.:
1 My son, if you accept my sayings
And treasure up my commandments,
2 By making your ear attentive to wisdom
And inclining your heart to discernment;
3 Moreover, if you call out for understanding
And raise your voice for discernment;
4 If you keep seeking for it as for silver,
And you keep searching for it as for hidden treasures;
5 Then you will understand the fear of Jehovah,
And you will find the knowledge of God.
6 For Jehovah himself gives wisdom;
From his mouth come knowledge and discernment.
Sevenz

.

johnamos2.0
Posts: 98
Joined: 1 month ago

Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

#39 Post by johnamos2.0 » 2 weeks ago

I never ignore anything the Bible says,
If the woman/harlot does not exist yet and does not come on scene until when the 8th king does, then how about the following, does this start happening when the beast is ruling for 42 months :?:

5 For her sins have massed together clear up to heaven,+ and God has called her acts of injustice to mind.+

Did her sins start upon when you say she comes to exist :?:

11 “Also, the traveling merchants+ of the earth are weeping and mourning over her,+ because there is no one to buy their full stock anymore, 12 a full stock+ of gold and silver and precious stone and pearls and fine linen and purple and silk and scarlet; and everything in scented wood* and every sort of ivory object and every sort of object out of most precious wood and of copper and of iron and of marble;+ 13 also cinnamon and Indian spice* and incense and perfumed oil and frankincense and wine and olive oil and fine flour and wheat and cattle and sheep, and horses and coaches and slaves* and human souls.*+

The traveling merchants are weeping over HER (the woman/harlot) being destroyed by the wild beast/8th king and the 10 kings...when was SHE able to but their stock if not in the past :?:

24 Yes, in her was found the blood+ of prophets+ and of holy ones+ and of all those who have been slaughtered on the earth.”+

How is it that the blood of the prophets and of the holy ones is said to be found in HER...what does she do in the future when SHE comes into existence that would be the cause to say that their blood was found in HER :?:
I already did. How in heaven's name did you miss it!
Can you show me one instance were the mention of BTG is connected to the wild beast/8th king :?:
:waiting:

johnamos2.0
Posts: 98
Joined: 1 month ago

Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

#40 Post by johnamos2.0 » 2 weeks ago

In chapter 14 starting in verse 8 it refers to SHE as being 'BTG'.

In chapter 17, starting in verse 1 in referring to 'the great harlot', the context from there on out shows, the usage of the words HER, WOMAN, BTG, 'the mother of the harlots',' harlot', 'great city'.

In the 18th chapter you will find starting in verse 2 it refers to SHE as being 'BTG', then the context from there on out shows HER, SHE, GREAT CITY, QUEEN.

Three different chapters in Rev that contain the use of the term BTG all are in the context of talking about SHE, HER, the WOMAN, the GREAT HARLOT, 'the mother of the harlots',' the harlot', 'the great city', an QUEEN.

Where in Rev to you see in regards to the term BTG, do you see the words wild beast, 8th king, HIM, or HE?

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