What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

This is the place to discuss anything to do with scriptural doctrine. It is the primary purpose of this site, and most discussions will be here.
Forum rules
Matt 18:6; Eccl 7:9; 1 Pet 4:8 (If you're not sure what they say then please hover over them with your mouse or look them up in your own Bible before posting)
Message
Author
Strazh
Posts: 30
Joined: 9 months ago

Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

#11 Post by Strazh » 1 week ago

I wonder why the description of the idol does not indicate the exact number of toes on his feet?
I don't speak English, so sorry for the mistakes and style.


User avatar
coccus ilicis
Posts: 769
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

#13 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 week ago

    Strazh wrote:
    1 week ago
    I wonder why the description of the idol does not indicate the exact number of toes on his feet?
    Hello Srazh,
    Most probably because it is not important
    The 10 toes are symbolic. They show how long the two witnesses do their work
    If any of the ten toes fail to heed the warning of Rev 12:1-10 they fall by the wayside. Revelation was recorded/written in Kione Greek and as such just mentiones the toes as one of the feateurs of the beast the harlot rides. Most of those doing the work of the two witnesses will take sides in the nuclear conflict just ahead of us. during which time many people will die, the 22:60, days applies to the period that the FDSis under attack.
    LRW~

    johnamos2.0
    Posts: 98
    Joined: 1 month ago

    Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

    #14 Post by johnamos2.0 » 1 week ago

    The 10 toes are symbolic. They show how long the two witnesses do their work
    Wow, I see how fast people can run away with something, including myself. :lol:

    They do not represent the two-witnesses. There is not even the word 'TEN' in the verse where it states 'feet and toes'. This is the mistake of Sevenz for including '10' in the topic title and my mistake for trying to find the 10 kings horns within the image.

    We know that in Rev 17 it speaks of the beast with 7 heads and each head represent a king. But then it goes on to say that it itself it a 8th king, so if we know each head are kings 1-7, we ask, where is the 8th king and the answer is the beast as a whole is the 8th king just like the image/statue as a whole is. The whole beast is said to be thrown in the fiery lake in the end just like the whole image/statue is said to be destroyed when the stone strikes it.

    But we know also in Rev 17 that it says the 10 horns mean 10 kings. These 10 horn kings are in addition to the 7 head kings. Well we found the 8th king in the beast and the statue by looking at them as a whole. And we know the 10 kings are found in the beast by the horns cause it plainly states it. So where are the 10 kings found in the statue? My guess is to say the toes because it is a little strange to say, "feet and toes" unless you meant to break them up as two parts. Normally if you just said 'feet' you would naturally think that includes the 'toes'.

    In verse 33 and 34 it says 'feet' only:

    [its legs were of iron,+ its feet were partly of iron and partly of molded clay. 34 You kept on looking until a stone* was cut out* not by hands,+ and it struck the image on its feet of iron and of molded clay and crushed them.+]

    In verse 41 and 42 it says 'feet' and 'toes' and emphasizes the 'toes':

    [41 “And whereas you beheld the feet and the toes to be partly of molded clay of a potter and partly of iron,+ the kingdom itself will prove to be divided,+ but somewhat of the hardness of iron will prove to be in it, forasmuch as you beheld the iron mixed with moist clay.+ 42 And as for the toes of the feet being partly of iron and partly of molded clay, the kingdom will partly prove to be strong and will partly prove to be fragile.]

    Nowhere does it say 10 toes. Again, it is just my guess that the 'toes' are the 10 king horns, but it is not necessary to find the 10 kings in the image but only to understand that the image as a whole is the 8th king.

    Bobcat
    Posts: 3813
    Joined: 7 years ago

    Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

    #15 Post by Bobcat » 1 week ago

    The "ten toes" is likely part assumption (in that two feet are naturally assumed to have ten toes), and part understanding that chapter two forms a parallel with chapter 7 (the ten horns). But the lack of mention of the number of toes in chapter two should give pause to any application that might be given to them. In chapter 2 the feet and toes are, for the most part, to be lumped together as a unit. (See note # 1 at the bottom of this post.)

    That chapter 2 & 7 form a chiastic parallel can be seen in this post. Compare how chapter 2 uses a human metaphor, while chapter 7 uses a beast metaphor. Chapters 8 & 10-12 use the same human/beast metaphor, only in reverse order of chapters 2 & 7.

    I personally take the "ten horns" in Rev 17 to be an allusion to the ten horns of Dan 7. The clue is in the statement in Rev 17 that "they have not yet received a kingdom" (Rev 17:12). If one takes the ten horns in Rev 17 as the WT interprets (i.e. the number 10 in the sense of earthly completeness), then that makes me wonder about how it can be said that "they have not yet received a kingdom." But the ten horns in Dan 7 are seen there to be kings that didn't have world ruling authority. The vision only presents the first four beasts and then the 11th horn as having ruling authority. (Compare Dan 7:17, 24-26) (See also my comments in this post.)

    Someone above mentioned the idea of the ten horns in Rev 17 being of European descent. This idea comes from understanding the 4th beast in Dan 7 as Rome. When the 4th beast is understood as the Roman Empire, the ten horns on the 4th beast's back are naturally seen as European offshoots of the Roman Empire. (On the Roman Empire being "different" from the previous beasts in Daniel chapter 7, see the first two links in this post.)

    Interestingly, if one takes the 11th horn as the Anglo-American empire, then, its closest allies are the NATO nations, all of European heritage. The 11th horn has its "ruling authority" taken away" by God in order to be destroyed" (Dan 7:26) suggesting that it loses its world power status sometime just prior to being destroyed. The "ten horns," on the other hand, give their "power and authority" (at God's instigation in Rev 17:17) to the scarlet beast for "one hour" prior to it being destroyed. (Rev 17:12)

    This makes for the possibility that Dan 7:26 and Rev 17:17 are mirror images of one another. Describing the same thing, but from two different perspectives. Something (but with God as the root cause) causes the ten horns to shift from being close allies of the 7th world power to a close relationship with the 8th.

    (Just as an aside, there is a possible parallel to this in Daniel 11:43. Where, if one were to take "Egypt" as representing the King of the South, and Anglo-America as being that king at the end, then, Libya and Ethiopia would be the next door neighbors to Egypt, who switch sides to being supporters of the King of the North.)

    Anyways, that's my take at the moment.


    Bobcat

    Notes:

    1. Analyzing the use of the feet and toes in Daniel chapter 2:
    Dan 2:33 NET = "its feet were partly of iron and partly of clay"

    Dan 2:34 NET ="it struck the statue on its iron and clay feet"

    Dan 2:41 NET ="you were seeing feet and toes (LXX lacks "and toes") partly of wet clay (ESV="soft clay"; NWT="clay of a potter") and partly of iron"

    Dan 2:42 = "And as the toes of the feet were partly iron and partly clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong and partly brittle"
    I am trying to see if there is any pattern to the mentioning of the feet and toes that might indicate some specific meaning for the toes. So far I don't see any.

    There is no mention of the number of toes. Of the four mentions of feet and/or toes, Dan 2:33 & 34 mention the feet only. Dan 2:41 mentions "feet and toes," and Dan 2:42 mentions "the toes of the feet." So that, someone might see some progression in that: Feet only (Dan 2:33, 34), to feet and toes (Dan 2:41), to "toes of the feet" (Dan 2:42). But it is difficult to see where the prophecy is highlighting one or the other. It could simply be a stylistic variation on Daniel's part.

    Sevenz
    Posts: 35
    Joined: 6 months ago
    Location: Texas

    Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

    #16 Post by Sevenz » 1 week ago

    Hello again, Johnamos!

    In your post #10 you quoted me as having said:
    Nebuchadnezzar ruled the world in his day, the same as the 8th king "Babylon the Great” will rule the world when it finally makes the scene.
    To which you replied:
    On this, I am not sure I follow what you are saying. If you mean that the 8th/wild beast is BTG, that I don't see that same way.
    Yes, that is exactly what I mean. The NAME of the wild beast (aka the 8th king, a one-world government) is for a fact “Babylon the Great”.

    You continued to say:
    It is said that the wild beast/8th king and the 10 kings are the ones that turn on BTG and destroy her/it.
    Yes, it is true that the 8th king (one-world government) will turn on and destroy the Harlot. However, I am aware that it is common for people to FAIL to realize that there are TWO separate entities whose names include the three words “Babylon the great”.

    These are as follows:
    Entity #1: The 8th king, a one-world GOVERNMENT, is most assuredly (indisputably) named “Babylon the Great”. (I will explain how this is ascertained on down the way.)
    Entity #2: The full name of the Harlot is “Babylon the great city” but it is sometimes referred to as “Babylon the great” and simply as “the great city”.—Revelation 18:21.
    Please note the distinction between the two entities—one is a world-ruling GOVERNMENT and the other one is likened to a CITY. When we think deeply about it, we can see a similarity between these two entities and the ancient CITY of Babel with its TOWER that the people constructed. Note that in both cases there is a CITY plus an entity that is constructed. The 8th king is in fact constructed or fabricated by way of the 10 kings/horns relinquishing their sovereignties in favor of there being a one-world government with the intent of procuring “peace and security” for earth’s politically divided bulging population on the heels of the 7th king having received a “death-stroke” (also referred to as a “sword-stroke”).

    Another similarity we can see in the comparison is that both the Harlot and the peoples of ancient Babel have become wayward, unfaithful to Jehovah. The woman/Harlot has clearly accepted the “mark” because she has the name of the 8th king written on her forehead. Thus, although she claims to worship Jehovah, she is guilty of porneiʹa. According to the glossary in the Study Edition of the NWT, porneiʹa is “used figuratively to describe her consorting with the rulers of the world for power and material gain. (Rev 14:8; 17:2; 18:3; Mt 5:32; Ac 15:29; Ga 5:19)”

    With regards to the peoples of Babel, their waywardness was evidenced by wanting to make a name for themselves by means of building a great city plus an impressive, extremely tall tower. It was a structure that would take the collective efforts of all the people working in UNITY to make it happen. Of course being UNITED (sticking close together) undoubtedly made them feel secure, whereas they would be at a disadvantage if they had scattered out instead. But the thing that was wrong about it, is that they placed their faith and trust in their collective strength rather than in the God of creation, the One who had given them life. And, of course, the upcoming 8th king (one-world government) will come into existence the same way. Their idea is to create a UNITED world, whereby everyone living is subject to the same government (a one-world government), in order to bring about peace and security. The problem with their reasoning though is that the Creator and life-giver of the universe is left out of the equation.

    The 8th king will demand the allegiance of everyone alive. Peoples all over the earth will be required to accept it (the one-world government) as the supreme sovereign or else be forced to starve to death by not being allowed to buy the necessities of life. Thus, anyone who refuses to cooperate will not be allowed to enter a grocery store. There will be no exemptions. Of course, among the masses there will be people who are true Christians. These ones will refuse to acknowledge the 8th king as being the highest sovereign, because for them Jehovah God is the higher sovereign and is therefore the authority that they must obey.

    The following scriptures identify the Harlot as being “Babylon the great city”:
    Revelation 14:8
    8 Another, a second angel, followed, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, she who made all the nations drink of the wine of the passion of her sexual immorality!”

    Revelation 16:19
    19 The great city split into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell; and Babylon the Great was remembered before God, to give her the cup of the wine of the fury of his wrath.

    Revelation 17:18
    And the woman whom you saw means the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth.

    Revelation 18:2
    2 And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: “She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, and she has become a dwelling place of demons and a place where every unclean spirit and every unclean and hated bird lurks!

    Revelation 18:9, 10
    9 “And the kings of the earth who committed sexual immorality with her and lived with her in shameless luxury will weep and beat themselves in grief over her when they see the smoke from her burning. 10 They will stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and say: ‘Too bad, too bad, you great city, Babylon you strong city, because in one hour your judgment has arrived!’

    Revelation 18:15-17
    15 “The merchants who sold these things, who became rich from her, will stand at a distance because of their fear of her torment and will weep and mourn, 16 saying: ‘Too bad, too bad, the great city, clothed with fine linen, purple, and scarlet and richly adorned with gold ornaments, precious stones, and pearls, 17 because in one hour such great riches have been devastated!’

    Revelation 18:18, 19
    18 and cried out as they looked at the smoke from her burning and said: ‘What city is like the great city?’ 19 They threw dust on their heads and cried out, weeping and mourning, and said: ‘Too bad, too bad, the great city, in which all those who had ships at sea became rich from her wealth, because in one hour she has been devastated!’

    Revelation 18:21
    21 And a strong angel lifted up a stone like a great millstone and hurled it into the sea, saying: “Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.
    The following scriptures help us to understand that a name (or names) written upon the forehead indicates who it is that the individual or entity worships:
    Revelation 13:1
    And it stood still on the sand of the sea. And I saw a wild beast ascending out of the sea, with ten horns and seven heads, and on its horns ten diadems, but on its heads blasphemous names.

    Revelation 3:12
    12 “‘The one who conquers—I will make him a pillar in the temple of my God, and he will by no means go out from it anymore, and I will write upon him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the New Jerusalem that descends out of heaven from my God, and my own new name.

    Revelation 13:15-17
    15 And it was permitted to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast.16 It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name.

    Revelation 14:1
    Then I saw, and look! the Lamb standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who have his name and the name of his Father written on their foreheads.

    Revelation 14:9, 10
    9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb.

    Revelation 19:11-13
    11 I saw heaven opened, and look! a white horse. And the one seated on it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. 12 His eyes are a fiery flame, and on his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, 13 and he is clothed with an outer garment stained with blood, and he is called by the name The Word of God.
    So now that we have seen that a name (or names) written on the forehead indicates who it is that the individual or entity worships, we are enabled to determine that the Harlot worships the 8th king. Thus, contrary to what is commonly thought, the name on her forehead is the name of the 8th king—it is NOT her own name!

    Equipped with that knowledge, let’s look at Revelation 17:1-5 again now:
    1 One of the seven angels who had the seven bowls came and said to me: “Come, I will show you the judgment on the great prostitute who sits on many waters, 2 with whom the kings of the earth committed sexual immorality, and earth’s inhabitants were made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.” 3 And he carried me away in the power of the spirit into a wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns. 4 The woman was clothed in purple and scarlet, and she was adorned with gold and precious stones and pearls, and she had in her hand a golden cup that was full of disgusting things and the unclean things of her sexual immorality. 5 On her forehead was written a name, a mystery: “Babylon the Great, the mother of the prostitutes and of the disgusting things of the earth.”
    Let it be understood, finally, that the name written on the Harlot’s forehead is not that of her own. Instead, the name depicts who it is that she is actually worshiping. The woman will have bought into the scheme that a one-world government can bring peace and security to planet Earth while totally excluding the Almighty God Jehovah, thus making herself a harlot.

    Well, that’s a lot of information to cover in just one post. I hope that it’s not too convoluted, and that I have made things clear enough to be understood.

    Sevenz

    johnamos2.0
    Posts: 98
    Joined: 1 month ago

    Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

    #17 Post by johnamos2.0 » 1 week ago

    The 8th king is in fact constructed or fabricated by way of the 10 kings/horns relinquishing their sovereignties in favor of there being a one-world government with the intent of procuring “peace and security” for earth’s politically divided bulging population on the heels of the 7th king having received a “death-stroke” (also referred to as a “sword-stroke”).
    The 8th king will demand the allegiance of everyone alive. Peoples all over the earth will be required to accept it (the one-world government) as the supreme sovereign or else be forced to starve to death by not being allowed to buy the necessities of life. Thus, anyone who refuses to cooperate will not be allowed to enter a grocery store. There will be no exemptions. Of course, among the masses there will be people who are true Christians. These ones will refuse to acknowledge the 8th king as being the highest sovereign, because for them Jehovah God is the higher sovereign and is therefore the authority that they must obey.
    The above I agree completely with. That is how I understand it from the Bible. And even for those that don't believe in the Bible, if they watched the 2 clips I posted on another tread of Walter Cronkite and George Bush it can be seen that this really is their plan and little by little over time they are working on achieving it. (I will say more about that on that thread.) At some point they will cause world events that will be the death stroke on the 7th head and when it is revived that is when it will be the 8th king. (order out of chaos)

    In regards to BTG, I still don't see where you are going with that. I see the 8th king as the UN. Who are you saying BTG is? Whomever it is, God has told his people to get out of her. What does that mean to you? And if as you say BTG worships the 8th king, then why does the 8th king/wild beast and the 10 kings turn on her and destroy her?

    Stranger
    Posts: 2234
    Joined: 3 years ago

    Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

    #18 Post by Stranger » 1 week ago

    johnamos2.0 wrote:
    1 week ago
    In regards to BTG, I still don't see where you are going with that. I see the 8th king as the UN. Who are you saying BTG is? Whomever it is, God has told his people to get out of her. What does that mean to you? And if as you say BTG worships the 8th king, then why does the 8th king/wild beast and the 10 kings turn on her and destroy her?

    BTG= the mother of all harlots.

    Can you name all her whore daughters? Just start spewing out names and I'd say you have at least a fifty percent chance of being right. As far as Big Mamma goes, you can name every whore you have ever heard of and haven't heard of and she'll still leave you guessing at what her Name is. Get real you visionaries!


    Stranger, (Ps 107:2)

    Sevenz
    Posts: 35
    Joined: 6 months ago
    Location: Texas

    Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

    #19 Post by Sevenz » 1 week ago

    The above I agree completely with. That is how I understand it from the Bible.
    That is great!
    And even for those that don't believe in the Bible, if they watched the 2 clips I posted on another tread of Walter Cronkite and George Bush it can be seen that this really is their plan and little by little over time they are working on achieving it. (I will say more about that on that thread.)
    I watched both of those clips you posted, and I can't thank you enough for posting them. They have a tremendous value, so much so that I downloaded them.
    At some point they will cause world events that will be the death stroke on the 7th head and when it is revived that is when it will be the 8th king. (order out of chaos)
    The "world events" that will kill the 7th head is specifically what Jesus was referring to at Matthew 24:7 where he prophesied that there will be a horrendous clash between nations and kingdoms, the likes of which will have never been seen before. The same event is pictured in Revelation 6:4 by the fiery-colored horse. I earnestly believe that it will be Satan himself that instigates this conflict, and he will do it in response to having been ousted from heaven (Revelation 12:12).
    In regards to BTG, I still don't see where you are going with that. I see the 8th king as the UN. Who are you saying BTG is? Whomever it is, God has told his people to get out of her. What does that mean to you? And if as you say BTG worships the 8th king, then why does the 8th king/wild beast and the 10 kings turn on her and destroy her?
    The 8th king aka "Babylon the Great" will be a one-world government which will arise immediately after the 7th head revives. The United Nations may very well be the forerunner, but right now it has limited power, it doesn't rule the world--not yet at least. The Bible tells us exactly how this 8th king receives its power. Revelation 17:12, 13 says that the 10 horns/kings will "give" their power and authority to the wild beast. In other words, the 10 kings (which represent all governments) will relinquish their sovereignties. In striking agreement with that we see that the 10 horns in Revelation 17 do not have the diadems they previously had in Revelation 13. As things stand right now, none of the UN's member nations have ever surrendered their sovereignty over to the UN. That's not to say that it won't happen, just that it hasn't happened yet. We must remember that the nations will be ready and willing to sacrifice their sovereignty (power & authority) only as a consequence of the devastating effect of the death-stroke they will have experienced. But the Bible reveals (see Daniel 7:8, 20, 24) that even in spite of that worldwide catastrophe there will be a minority of horns/kings/nations (figuratively 3 of the 10) who will have to be forced or pushed into yielding their sovereignty--being made to accept the fact that there is going to be a one-world government with or without their consent.

    I hope that I have been clear enough, but if not let me know and I will try to do better.

    Sevenz

    Stranger
    Posts: 2234
    Joined: 3 years ago

    Re: What do the feet & 10 toes of Daniel 2 TRULY represent?

    #20 Post by Stranger » 1 week ago

    I always knew the Red Revelation Book was gonna be detrimental and now I'm witnessing the level of degree the effects are having.

    Get real you visionaries! Snap out of it and get with the program the Grand climax at hand. ((Acts 4:12)


    Stranger

    Post Reply

    Who is online

    Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 14 guests