The Fall of Babylon and the Jewish Exile (70 Years: 598-528 BCE)

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johnamos2.0
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Re: The Fall of Babylon and the Jewish Exile (70 Years: 598-528 BCE)

#21 Post by johnamos2.0 » 2 weeks ago

by Proselytiser of Jah
because God did say word for word in those verses, "his people" would be exiled for 70 years.
Where is that said?

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Re: The Fall of Babylon and the Jewish Exile (70 Years: 598-528 BCE)

#22 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 2 weeks ago

johnamos2.0 wrote:
2 weeks ago
by Proselytiser of Jah
because God did say word for word in those verses, "his people" would be exiled for 70 years.
Where is that said?
“Then the word of the Yehovah of hosts came to me: ‘Say to all the people of the land and the priests, ‘When you fasted and mourned in the fifth month and in the seventh, for these seventy years, was it for me that you fasted?'” – Zechariah 7:4–5

They "fasted and mourned 70 years". The fasting and mourning = the exile.

"He took into exile in Babylon those who had escaped from the sword, and they became servants to him and to his sons until the establishment of the kingdom of Persia, to fulfill the word of the Lord by the mouth of Jeremiah, until the land had lenjoyed its Sabbaths. All the days that it lay desolate it kept Sabbath, to fulfill seventy years. – 2 Chronicles 36:20

He took them in to exile (under Babylonian rule) until the kingdom of Persia, for 70 years. Word for word it says "the exile has to fulfill 70 years".

So we have two options, we claim there are two 70 year periods, the Babylonian 70 years and the Jewish 70 years and they overlap each other but are not paralleled. Or, they are one in the same (which I think scripture and secular history supports).
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

Bobcat
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Re: The Fall of Babylon and the Jewish Exile (70 Years: 598-528 BCE)

#23 Post by Bobcat » 2 weeks ago

Regarding Zech 7:1, footnote # 1 in the NET says:
sn The fourth day of Kislev, the ninth month would be December 7, 518 b.c., 22 months after the previous eight visions.
Then, regarding the question raised in Zech 7:3 ("Should we weep in the fifth month"), footnote # 4 says:
sn This lamentation marked the occasion of the destruction of Solomon’s temple on August 14, 586 b.c., almost exactly 70 years earlier (cf. 2 Kgs 25:8).
In effect, "these seventy years" of Zech 7:5 is referring, not to the exile, but to the approximately 70 years since the destruction of the temple.

Regarding the mention of the "seventh month" footnote # 5 says:
tn The seventh month apparently refers to the anniversary of the assassination of Gedaliah, governor of Judah (Jer 40:13-14; 41:1), in approximately 581 b.c.

Bobcat

johnamos2.0
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Re: The Fall of Babylon and the Jewish Exile (70 Years: 598-528 BCE)

#24 Post by johnamos2.0 » 2 weeks ago

by Proselytiser of Jah
So we have two options, we claim there are two 70 year periods, the Babylonian 70 years and the Jewish 70 years and they overlap each other but are not paralleled. Or, they are one in the same (which I think scripture and secular history supports).
Maybe there were two 70 year periods. I found this in regards to:
When were Zechariah’s 70 years?

The period of 70 years mentioned in Zechariah is not the same period as Babylon’s 70 years. Although Babylon’s 70 years ended when Babylon was ‘called to account’ in 539 BCE, the period described by Zechariah was ongoing in the 2nd year of Darius (520 BCE). In that year, Zechariah described a vision in which he heard an angel use an expression of frustration regarding a period of denunciation that was still having an effect on Jerusalem and the cities of Judah. In the 9th month of Darius’ 4th year (December 518 BCE), Zechariah is asked whether annual fasting should still be observed. In his response, he indicates that the fasts held in the 5th and 7th months (August and October) had been observed for 70 years, including the fasts that had been held earlier that year, which places the first year of fasting in 587 BCE.

Zechariah 1:7–8, 11–12: On the 24th day of the 11th month, that is, the month of Sheʹbat, in the second year of Da·riʹus, the word of Jehovah came to the prophet Zech·a·riʹah son of Ber·e·chiʹah son of Idʹdo, saying: 8 “I saw a vision in the night. There was a man riding on a red horse, and he stood still among the myrtle trees in the ravine; and behind him there were red, reddish-brown, and white horses.” … 11 And they said to the angel of Jehovah who was standing among the myrtle trees: “We have walked about in the earth, and look! the whole earth is quiet and undisturbed.” 12 So the angel of Jehovah said: “O Jehovah of armies, how long will you withhold your mercy from Jerusalem and the cities of Judah, with whom you have been indignant these 70 years?”
Zechariah 1:8 (NIV): During the night I had a vision, and there before me was a man mounted on a red horse. He was standing among the myrtle trees in a ravine. Behind him were red, brown and white horses.
Zechariah 7:1–5: And in the fourth year of King Da·riʹus, the word of Jehovah came to Zech·a·riʹah on the fourth day of the ninth month, that is, the month of Chisʹlev. 2 The people of Bethʹel sent Shar·eʹzer and Reʹgem-melʹech and his men to beg for the favor of Jehovah, 3 saying to the priests of the house of Jehovah of armies and to the prophets: “Should I weep in the fifth month and abstain from food, as I have done for so many years?” 4 The word of Jehovah of armies again came to me, saying: 5 “Say to all the people of the land and to the priests, ‘When you fasted and wailed in the fifth month and in the seventh month for 70 years, did you really fast for me?
https://jeffro77.wordpress.com/index/607-for-dummies/

Proselytiser of Jah
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Re: The Fall of Babylon and the Jewish Exile (70 Years: 598-528 BCE)

#25 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 2 weeks ago

johnamos2.0 wrote:
2 weeks ago


Maybe there were two 70 year periods. I found this in regards to:


https://jeffro77.wordpress.com/index/607-for-dummies/
An interesting premise for sure. Possible also! I'm not above that idea, though I think it's odd that the exile would be a seperate time frame to Babylon if Babylon was the means of the exile (the desolation of Jerusalem), and I think the timing of the exile matches the 70 years of Babylon too.

Since we are told the exile must last 70 years...

We are told Babylon must last 70 years...

We are told the exile ends and the people are returned to Jerusalem after Babylon is defeated...

So, to me, it doesn't seem they can be seperated, unless the "return to Jerusalem" isn't reliant on "the day" Babylon is defeated, but rather is God just saying it would be "some time after" Babylon is defeated, in such a case, then perhaps the Jews returned from their 70 year exile from 598-528, whilst Babylon's 70 years are 609-539.

So for either interpretation, there is still secular evidence to support them and their fulfillments.
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

johnamos2.0
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Re: The Fall of Babylon and the Jewish Exile (70 Years: 598-528 BCE)

#26 Post by johnamos2.0 » 2 weeks ago

but rather is God just saying it would be "some time after" Babylon is defeated,
I think that is the case on that.

I am not even going to attempt to claim I understand about the sabbaths and if they are a different period. But putting aside the Jew's, the exile and the sabbaths, here is something we know. Babylon was the 3rd world power. (Daniel 2:37 Revelation 17:10) It is said that God number the days of Babylon being a world power and brought it to an end on a particular night. (Daniel 5:26,30) It is said that the 'NATIONS' would serve Babylon 70 years and WHEN those 70 years were FULFILLED that Jehovah would THEN call Babylon to account. (Jeremiah 25:11,12)

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Re: The Fall of Babylon and the Jewish Exile (70 Years: 598-528 BCE)

#27 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 2 weeks ago

johnamos2.0 wrote:
2 weeks ago
but rather is God just saying it would be "some time after" Babylon is defeated,
I think that is the case on that.

I am not even going to attempt to claim I understand about the sabbaths and if they are a different period. But putting aside the Jew's, the exile and the sabbaths, here is something we know. Babylon was the 3rd world power. (Daniel 2:37 Revelation 17:10) It is said that God number the days of Babylon being a world power and brought it to an end on a particular night. (Daniel 5:26,30) It is said that the 'NATIONS' would serve Babylon 70 years and WHEN those 70 years were FULFILLED that Jehovah would THEN call Babylon to account. (Jeremiah 25:11,12)
Aye. I've updated my article to make sure I give both points of view a fair representation.

I admit, in that article it brought out a good scripture to my attention Jeremiah 25:12. If the 70 years was over after 539, then that means either 539 is the real date he was killed and secular dates are wrong, or, the 70 years ends at 539, and the Jewish exile is not tied to 70 years.

I say this, since if the Jewish exile had to be 70 years, and the Bible says their exile ends when Babylon ends, then the 70 years would have to parallel, in this case, I may be misreading what is being said in my quoted verses which seem to make it look like the exile is for 70 years.
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

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