Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

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Kerry Huish
Posts: 464
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Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#121 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 weeks ago

The one speaking with John and showing him the things to be written down is clearly revealed and described for us in Revelation 1: -

Revelation 1:10-19 On the Lord’s Day I was in the Spirit, and I heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet, which said: “Write on a scroll what you see and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus, Smyrna, Pergamum, Thyatira, Sardis, Philadelphia and Laodicea.” I turned around to see the voice that was speaking to me. And when I turned I saw seven golden lampstands, and among the lampstands was someone like a son of man, d dressed in a robe reaching down to his feet and with a golden sash around his chest. The hair on his head was white like wool, as white as snow, and his eyes were like blazing fire. His feet were like bronze glowing in a furnace, and his voice was like the sound of rushing waters. In his right hand he held seven stars, and coming out of his mouth was a sharp, double-edged sword. His face was like the sun shining in all its brilliance. When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: “Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last. I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades. “Write, therefore, what you have seen, what is now and what will take place later.

This is none other than Jesus Christ himself.
This one, the one speaking, later said to John: -

Revelation 22:8-11 I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had been showing them to me. But he said to me, “Don’t do that! I am a fellow servant with you and with your fellow prophets and with all who keep the words of this scroll. Worship God!”

Why would the glorified Christ Jesus take this view of himself, a humble fellow servant of John?

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you. Let me teach you, because I am humble and gentle at heart, and you will find rest for your souls
Matthew 20:28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”
Luke 17:10 So you also, when you have done everything you were told to do, should say, ‘We are unworthy servants; we have only done our duty.’”

John 13:12-16 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. “Do you understand what I have done for you?” he asked them. “You call me ‘Teacher’ and ‘Lord,’ and rightly so, for that is what I am. Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another’s feet. I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you. Very truly I tell you, no servant is greater than his master, nor is a messenger greater than the one who sent him. Now that you know these things, you will be blessed if you do them.

Humility needs to be maintained else a person falls into the path of Satan.

Philippians 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever.

It is Satan that wants and desires the worship that rightly belongs to Jehovah NOT Jesus.

Matthew 4:9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.”
__________________

Conclusion of the matter.
If the association of Michael and Jesus is mistaken then this is easily corrected, ultimately no harm is done as we are not worshipping either Jesus or Michael anyway and no scriptural principle has been violated in our reaching out for knowledge, although IMO this is not a case of mistaken identity but we will see.
However, if the association of Jesus and Jehovah is incorrect and we have been giving worship to Jesus that rightly belongs to Jehovah, then many scriptural principles have been violated and harm is being done, we have presumptuously overstepped the clear commandment to our own determent.

Of the two, one is more a pressing, serious matter than the other...

Isaiah 42:8 I am Jehovah, that is my name; and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise unto graven images.
1 Corinthians 10:22 Are we trying to arouse the Lord’s jealousy? Are we stronger than he?
Exodus 34:14 Do not worship any other god, for the LORD, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

goghtherefore
Posts: 208
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#122 Post by goghtherefore » 2 weeks ago

Acts 7:59, NIV: "While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.'"
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

Proselytiser of Jah
Posts: 333
Joined: 5 months ago
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Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#123 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 2 weeks ago

Interestingly, according to the Greek, the word "pray" isn't used (which is a different word altogether).

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/7-59.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/1941.htm

In this context, it seems it would not be wrong to call out to Jesus, in a casual manner, or upon sight of him, to request something, as he is our "Lord". However the Father it would appear, is the only "hearer of prayer" (just as Jesus said, when he taught his disciples how to pray).
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

goghtherefore
Posts: 208
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#124 Post by goghtherefore » 2 weeks ago

Re: However the Father it would appear, is the only "hearer of prayer"

Our Lord Jesus mediates for us.

John 14:14

13And I will do whatever you ask in My name, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14If you ask Me for anything in My name, I will do it. 15If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.…

many translations:

https://biblehub.com/john/14-14.htm

.02,

goghtherefore
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

Kerry Huish
Posts: 464
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#125 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 weeks ago

goghtherefore wrote: 2 weeks ago Acts 7:59, NIV: "While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.'"
Proselytiser of Jah wrote: 2 weeks ago Interestingly, according to the Greek, the word "pray" isn't used (which is a different word altogether).

https://biblehub.com/interlinear/acts/7-59.htm
https://biblehub.com/greek/1941.htm

In this context, it seems it would not be wrong to call out to Jesus, in a casual manner, or upon sight of him, to request something, as he is our "Lord". However the Father it would appear, is the only "hearer of prayer" (just as Jesus said, when he taught his disciples how to pray).
As imperfect humans we have a tendancy to look even for the flimsiest of excuses to try and justify doing what is wrong.

Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is more treacherous than anything else and is desperate. Who can know it?

However, when it is brought to our attention, we have a choice to make, a side to choose.

1 John 3:8 He who carries on sin originates with the Devil, because the Devil has been sinning from [the] beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was made manifest, namely, to break up the works of the Devil.

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

goghtherefore
Posts: 208
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#126 Post by goghtherefore » 2 weeks ago

Hi Kerry

Your reference to this scripture: "Matthew 4:9 “All this I will give you,” he said, “if you will bow down and worship me.” "


Reminded me of this statement in the Watchtowerland Revelation Climax book Ch12 paragraph 19: ..." ... Following this, “a great crowd . . . out of all nations” has come to “bow down” to the anointed slave...." ...

Bowing is often a form of worship. (so are the things Jehovah's Witnesses do at Kingdom Halls...singing, commenting, being there etc; worship?....Who are they worshiping according to the Revelation Climax book?)


Romans 14:11: Berean Literal Bible

"For it has been written: "I live, says the Lord, that every knee will bow to Me, and every tongue will confess to God." "

...more translations:

https://biblehub.com/romans/14-11.htm

Regards,

goghtherefore
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

Proselytiser of Jah
Posts: 333
Joined: 5 months ago
Contact:

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#127 Post by Proselytiser of Jah » 2 weeks ago

goghtherefore wrote: 2 weeks ago
Reminded me of this statement in the Watchtowerland Revelation Climax book Ch12 paragraph 19: ..." ... Following this, “a great crowd . . . out of all nations” has come to “bow down” to the anointed slave...." ...
It's shocking to read that in hindsight.
"The fruitage of the Spirit is; love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control..." Galatians 5:22-23

goghtherefore
Posts: 208
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#128 Post by goghtherefore » 2 weeks ago

..a bit further regarding honoring, bowing etc. to Jesus:

Philippians 2:10-11
New King James Version

"10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those in heaven, and of those on earth, and of those under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

.02

goghtherefore
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

goghtherefore
Posts: 208
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#129 Post by goghtherefore » 2 weeks ago

Hi Proselytiser of Jah

Re: "It's shocking to read that in hindsight."

I cringe at how many times I promoted this blasphemy by my attendance and participation and reading assignments. (Then the booklet of changes to "brighter" (choke) "light"!...grrrrrr.)

goghtherefore
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

DomineIvimus
Posts: 26
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#130 Post by DomineIvimus » 2 weeks ago

It's all back to front isn't it. Normally it is the slave who does the bowing, and serves rather than is served.

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