Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

This is the place to discuss anything to do with scriptural doctrine. It is the primary purpose of this site, and most discussions will be here.
Forum rules
Matt 18:6; Eccl 7:9; 1 Pet 4:8 (If you're not sure what they say then please hover over them with your mouse or look them up in your own Bible before posting)
Message
Author
goghtherefore
Posts: 208
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#111 Post by goghtherefore » 2 weeks ago

Hi johnamos2.0

Re: "Anything else name wise or description wise that anyone could add to these 3 separate angels?"


Followers of Jehovah's Witness doctrine teach also that our Lord and Shepherd Jesus Christ is Abaddon,the angel of the abyss.

"Revelation--Its Grand Climax At Hand!" Book (1988), Page 148:"

"(Revelation 9:11) As “angel of the abyss” and “Destroyer,” Jesus had truly released a plaguing woe on Christendom."

Page 200: "This is supported by the use of Hebrew names in other visions; Jesus is given the Hebrew name “Abaddon” (meaning “Destruction”) and executes judgment at the place “called in Hebrew Har–Magedon.”—Revelation 9:11; 16:16.

goghtherefore
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

goghtherefore
Posts: 208
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#112 Post by goghtherefore » 2 weeks ago

...of course the foundation of Watchtowerland ;Russell, Rutherford, etc., used to teach abaddon was Satan.

“The Finished Mystery” (1917): " The same king as exercises general rulership over all the ecclesiastical affairs of this present evil world. [Which is] the angel of the [bottomless pit] ABYSS. — "The prince of the power of the air." — Eph. 2:2. Whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon. — And he is "a bad one," sure enough. — 2 Cor. 4:4. But in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon. — That is, Destroyer. But in plain English his name is Satan, the Devil.

.02

goghtherefore
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

Stranger
Posts: 2417
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#113 Post by Stranger » 2 weeks ago

goghtherefore wrote: 2 weeks ago ...of course the foundation of Watchtowerland ;Russell, Rutherford, etc., used to teach abaddon was Satan.

That WAS another place, another time.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QeD7GCw7_g


Stranger, (Acts 3:23)

goghtherefore
Posts: 208
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#114 Post by goghtherefore » 2 weeks ago

...you made my day!!! 😎 (I was 18 at the time 😎)
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

Stranger
Posts: 2417
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#115 Post by Stranger » 2 weeks ago

Yes, just before you made a big decision, but not to worry, with time comes precision.
You made mine too Gogh, thank you. Things can get dark at times, but that's never hindered our vision.


Stranger, (Ezra 6:12)

Get out of her
Posts: 1089
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#116 Post by Get out of her » 2 weeks ago

gogtherefore wrote:
Thank you for your reply.

Re: "Jesus was evidently not ONLY an unusually glorious angel even BEFORE he was manifested in the flesh,"
First of all gogtherefore I mean no offense when I remind you that depending on the motives involved, isolating specific words from the ones immediately surrounding them is often referred to as taking statements out of context. If you perhaps desired to completely overlook the thoughts being conveyed in the sentences immediately before and after the one you quoted from, should I not at least expect the courtesy of citing a complete sentence? Even if the meaning originally being conveyed is NOT altered by partial omissions, I should probably point out that it is actually recognized as a grammatical error to cite only a portion of a sentence without placing three periods (…) immediately in place of the omitted words. I myself am often guilty of taking this liberty when I believe it is clear I am NOT altering some particular meaning, so once again I mean no offense by pointing it out. Nevertheless the following is actually what I wrote:
With that said, NONE of this information should recognized as taking anything away from a certain uniqueness and SPECIAL honor that should rightfully be assigned to ONE of the "two witnesses" or even messiahs who appeared in the first century. The one given the name of both Immanuel and Jesus was evidently not ONLY an unusually glorious angel even BEFORE he was manifested in the flesh, but the PERFECT and by extension PRICELESS human blood that was produced by means of HIS particular priestly sacrifice enabled Jehovah to "inaugurate" or otherwise apply the atoning value of this distinct blood even retroactively to ALL the renewed holy covenants. (He 9:16-18)
Among the problems with taking statements out of context is that it can become an even much more egregious error of leading OTHERS to wrong conclusions, such as the ones you speak of in your next paragraph:

gogtherefore wrote:
So to be clear, you are teaching that the Word (Logos) was an angel (that created all things), became the archangel Michael, then Jesus Christ, then Michael again ...(not to mention Abaddon (the angel of the abyss), as well)?
Just as Jesus himself explicitly pointed out in accounts like John 8:28, when it comes to any GENUINE Christian ministry, it is ultimately not even about what HE has to say or teach, let alone someone as lowly and insignificant as yours truly. This is the very reason even Jesus was constantly directing people's attention to the Holy writings throughout his ministry rather than to himself. He refused to even be called "good teacher" without deprecating himself and directing people's attention instead to his father, who he also identified even as HIS God! (Mr 10:17, 18) (Joh 20:17) By referring to his God also as his "father," should it not also be rather clear on that basis alone who it is exactly that is ultimately responsible for ALL creation? and even if this person would at some point allow others to ASSIST him with this work? (Pr 8:30, 31)

Here on this website you go by the name- gogtherefore. But (respectfully) I'm inclined to assume you have other names and in fact likely at least THREE others which would include a first, middle and last. This is aside from any nicknames you might have accumulated throughout the course of your life or even titles you might have acquired through education, employment, or perhaps even a religious ministry. Simply because we now rightly call you –gogtherefore, does that mean you cannot also be identified by your original name or birth name?

The scriptures actually make it rather clear that even the majority of the names AND titles now ascribed to the angel Michael are due to his accepting and successfully COMPLETING the divine assignment offered to him at Isaiah 49:1-13. It was this very thing along with the "incorruptibility and immortality" associated with his resurrection from the dead in 33 CE that led to him at some point "inheriting a name more excellent" than even all the other angels. (1 Cor 15: 51-53) (He 1:4) Just a these accounts explicitly bear out, it was at this point that this angel "BECAME" someone that even other "kings" would NOW "bow" down to even if only "ON ACCOUNT of Jehovah who had CHOSEN him" for this assignment.

With these things in mind, by now comparing accounts like Isaiah 49:1-13 with ones like Jeremiah 1:6-10 and Ezekiel 3:1-7 we might be able to discern that ALL the foretold ministries of the "two witnesses" or even "son of man" that would lead to a renewal of a broken holy covenant would result in a "founding of the world." (Re 13:8) Jesus himself just so happens to identify this re-birth also as a "RE-CREATION," and just as is confirmed also here in Revelation 13:8, it is ALWAYS even most particularly the "slaughtering" or "killing" of these "two witnesses" and the presenting of the value of their atoning blood before Jehovah with a subsequent call from heaven to "come up here" that ACCOMPLISHES this "re-creation." (Mt 19:28) (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12) (He 9:16-18) Scriptural accounts such as these should in turn begin helping us attain to a better understanding of whatever scriptural passages might have prompted you to speak of …"an angel (that created all things)…

Rather than posing the above question to me that you did, I would lovingly recommend you take a moment to question yourself as to why exactly you seem so intent on continuing to assign ME credit for things I am sharing from the SCRIPTURES, and particularly since for at least the most part I fail to see how any of the ones I cited would lead someone to the conclusions you listed here?

Agape love;
Sol

johnamos2.0
Posts: 156
Joined: 4 months ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#117 Post by johnamos2.0 » 2 weeks ago

Dan 1: 21 And Daniel remained there until the first year of King Cyrus.+

Dan 10:1 In the third year of King Cyrus+ of Persia, a revelation was given to Daniel, who was called by the name Bel·te·shazʹzar;+ and the message was true, and it was about a great conflict. And he understood the message and was given understanding about what he had seen.

Does anyone know what time frame this is speaking of?


Also, it is clear in the following that the mention of that man is Garbiel, but does anyone know if the mention of the man in linen is also Garbriel or is it a different person?

Dan 8:15 While I, Daniel, was watching the vision and seeking to understand it, suddenly I saw standing in front of me someone who appeared to be a man...Dan 9:21 yes, while I was yet speaking in prayer, the man Gaʹbri·el,+ whom I had previously seen in the vision,+ came to me when I was extremely weary at about the time of the evening gift offering. 22 And he gave me understanding, saying: “O Daniel, now I have come to give you insight and understanding.

Daniel 10:5 I looked up and saw a man clothed in linen,+ and around his waist was a belt of gold from Uʹphaz.... Daniel 12:6,7 Then one said to the man clothed in linen,+ who was up above the waters of the stream: “How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?” 7 Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and swore by the One who is alive forever:+

goghtherefore
Posts: 208
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#118 Post by goghtherefore » 2 weeks ago

Hi Get out of her

Thank you for you reply (and reminders on proper grammar..(not my best subject, hehe,grin)).

Re: "...I would lovingly recommend you take a moment to question yourself as to why exactly you seem so intent on continuing to assign ME credit for things I am sharing from the SCRIPTURES,..."

Please share from/using scripture to show why you teach Jesus Christ our Lord and Savior is Abaddon, the angel of the abyss.

Revelation 9:11, KJV: "And they had a king over them, which is the angel of the bottomless pit, whose name in the Hebrew tongue is Abaddon, but in the Greek tongue hath his name Apollyon."


goghtherefore (you can call me gogh (...grin))
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

goghtherefore
Posts: 208
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#119 Post by goghtherefore » 2 weeks ago

...further, Get out of her

Regarding your paragraph talking about being known by different names (or changing of names depending on job description/assignments etc....); Please provide (if you wish) scripture justification for the teaching of Bible Students that Michael was the Pope to Michael being Jesus Christ.

Michael as “the Pope,” The Finished Mystery 1917 p.188.

Thank you.

goghtherefore
“This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!”
Luke 9:35

Kerry Huish
Posts: 464
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Personal scriptural musings on The Trinity

#120 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 weeks ago

Regardless of wether Jesus is Michael or not.
What we should be taking away from all this is that it is a mistake to be worshipping Jesus.

It has been shown that the very Angel showing John the revelation was Jesus.

When John tried to worship him, he was told to be careful and not do that.

All this being said, those who are content to be filthy will only be made more filthy still: -

Revelation 22:11 He that is doing unrighteousness, let him do unrighteousness still; and let the filthy one be made filthy still; but let the righteous one do righteousness still, and let the holy one be made holy still.

Worshipping Jesus or anything apart from God is what makes one spiritually unclean, filthy and unfit.

Deuteronomy 4:24 For Jehovah your God is a consuming fire, a God exacting exclusive devotion.

Kind Regards

Kerry
Revelation 10:7 But in the days when the seventh angel is about to sound his trumpet, the mystery of God will be accomplished, just as he announced to his servants the prophets.”

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Majestic-12 [Bot], Semrush [Bot] and 1 guest