“A wild beast with ten horns and seven heads.”—Revelation 13:1.

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Sevenz
Posts: 15
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Location: Texas

Re: “A wild beast with ten horns and seven heads.”—Revelation 13:1.

#21 Post by Sevenz » 3 weeks ago

Hi Marina,
The union of Rome = the union of the world - UN.
The reason I called attention to the United Nations having 193 member nations is to stress the fact that the 7th "king" is comprised of a huge number of nations. The Watchtower has misinterpreted the 7th "king" as being comprised of just two (2) nations; namely, Britain and the United States, which they refer to as the "anglo-American dual world power".

The advantage of having an accurate knowledge with regards to the identity of these so-called "kings" is that it enables us to know where we are located in the stream of time relative to the return of Christ. We see that we are living during the time of the last of the 7 "kings" and that it has been ruling ever since the year 476 C.E. The Bible informs us that shortly before his return an 8th "king" (a one-world government) will rise up out of the 7th "king" and that it will attack God's loyal worshippers. That is precisely when Jesus will return. He will deliver God's loyal worshipers and eliminate the 8th "king" along with the nations and peoples who supported it. It is then that the 1,000-year reign of Jesus will begin. And during his reign he will empty Sheol / Hades (a figurative place) by means of performing resurrections. To the tremendous surprise of many, Jesus will even resurrect the peoples that he had to eliminate during the war of Armageddon. Also, to the huge surprise of many, he will resurrect the peoples who died in the Flood of Noah's day. Also to the great surprise of many, Jesus will bless us by bringing our beloved pets back to life. (Yes, I can back that up with Scripture.) Won't that be a wonderful day when that happens! I could go on but by now you are likely getting tired of reading, so I will give you a break. :-)

Sevenz

Sevenz
Posts: 15
Joined: 2 months ago
Location: Texas

Re: “A wild beast with ten horns and seven heads.”—Revelation 13:1.

#22 Post by Sevenz » 3 weeks ago

Hi Bob, it's nice to hear from you again.
I was curious about where you would place the Two-Horned Lamb (aka False Prophet - Compare Rev 19:20 with Rev 13:12, 14)? Or maybe you don't understand the Two-Horned Lamb/False Prophet to be governmental in nature?
I remember covering that base before during my studies but I need a little time to collect my thoughts. I've got a number of things requiring my attention today, so it will likely be tomorrow before I will be back. Thanks for bringing it up.

Sevenz

Bobcat
Posts: 3454
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: “A wild beast with ten horns and seven heads.”—Revelation 13:1.

#23 Post by Bobcat » 3 weeks ago

Thanks Sevenz, take your time.


Bobcat

Kosonen
Posts: 321
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: “A wild beast with ten horns and seven heads.”—Revelation 13:1.

#24 Post by Kosonen » 3 weeks ago

Sevenz:
4. Rome (the type of animal is not disclosed, but there is overwhelming evidence that it was a Rhinoceros)

►The 10 HORNS on the 4th beast represent all the governments that began to rule after the fall of Rome, including all of today’s governments. Ten is a number denoting fullness, entirety, the aggregate, the sum of all that exists of something (which in this case happens to be governments).
Hi Sevenz, nice to have you here. Let me give you my thoughts on the beasts in the Bible.

Maybe the beast looked like a dinosaur, for example the most fierce, the Tyrannusaurus Rex?
Yes, I am also of the opinion that the 4th beast in Daniel 7 is about Rome. But the 10 horns represent the divided old Roman empire of today's countries and lands and nations and peoples that were part of the old Roman Empire. Those countries are still much connected to Rome. Even Donald Trump after becoming the president of USA travelled to meet with the Pope in Rome.
So in my opinion one of the horns of the 4th beast is USA. And I think Donald Trump will again become president. In some places votes are recounted from the latest election. Maybe Trump was in fact the true winner of the election.

Kosonen
Posts: 321
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: “A wild beast with ten horns and seven heads.”—Revelation 13:1.

#25 Post by Kosonen » 3 weeks ago

Sevenz:
The advantage of having an accurate knowledge with regards to the identity of these so-called "kings" is that it enables us to know where we are located in the stream of time relative to the return of Christ. We see that we are living during the time of the last of the 7 "kings" and that it has been ruling ever since the year 476 C.E
Yes, really correct understanding of the identities of the beasts and kings enable us to know in what time we live relative to Christ's return.

As I wrote in the previous post the beast or king that was Rome in the days when Revelation was written still exists and is composed of European countries and USA and I think Latin American countries are also included because of the Spanish and Portugees language connections and the Roman Catholic connection.

Because of that the one king that was at the time Revelation was written still is present and is the 6th king.
17:10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.

But the 7th king will come for a short while. But the 8th will last for even a shorter time.
The 8th king I understand to be the UN when it finally gets the full authority over the entire political system.

But who is the 7th king? It logically should be the 7-headed beast described in Revelation 13, because it will rule 42 months. That is the "short while" mentioned in Revelation 17:10 in the verse quoted above.

Then the question is: Has the 7-headed beast of Revelation 13/the 7th king mentioned in Revelation17:10 appeared? I don't think it has made itself fully recognizable yet. But I think that king is the one behind all the rules associated to Covid-19. And they are planing new rules for the entire world to save the world from a Cyber pandemic.

Yes, shortly that is were I think we are now, approaching the start of the 42 months of the reign of the 7th king and the 7-headed beast in Revelation 13.

Stranger
Posts: 2010
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: “A wild beast with ten horns and seven heads.”—Revelation 13:1.

#26 Post by Stranger » 3 weeks ago

Kosonen wrote:
3 weeks ago
Yes, I am also of the opinion that the 4th beast in Daniel 7 is about Rome.
"All roads lead to Rome, but all Creeks lead to the Greeks." (SC)


https://www.mathwarehouse.com/history/h ... f-zero.php



Stranger, (Isa 40:17)

Kosonen
Posts: 321
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: “A wild beast with ten horns and seven heads.”—Revelation 13:1.

#27 Post by Kosonen » 3 weeks ago

In addition to know at what time we live, we have a prophecy in Daniel 11 about the king of the north, in my opinion USA. It has to do with the current situation with Covid restrictions concerning restrictions to congregation meetings and door to door witnessing. Its the prophecy about the removal of the constant feature/offering.

Daniel 11:31 And arms will stand up, proceeding from him; and they will profane the sanctuary, the fortress, and remove the constant feature.

Kosonen
Posts: 321
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: “A wild beast with ten horns and seven heads.”—Revelation 13:1.

#28 Post by Kosonen » 3 weeks ago

Covid restrictions against religious meetings:


Get out of her
Posts: 969
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: “A wild beast with ten horns and seven heads.”—Revelation 13:1.

#29 Post by Get out of her » 3 weeks ago

Hello again Sevenz:

It's always very encouraging for me to witness my dear brothers and sisters engaging and sharing in Bible discussions. Nothing could be more important for us to be considering and particularly in this prophetic time frame. For that reason it would pain me greatly to imagine anything I would ever contribute would actually serve to stifle or DIScourage such a thing. Nevertheless just as the name of this website would clearly indicate, the whole idea here is to get to the "TRUTH" of what is being considered in the Holy Scriptures. With that in mind I would respectfully encourage you to carefully consider exactly how you came up with your proposed list of the foretold march of world powers being symbolically represented in accounts like Revelation 13 and 17?

Sevenz wrote:
1. Egypt
2. Assyria
3. Babylon
4. Medo-Persia
5. Greece
6. Rome
7. Today’s governments, all of them.
The primary reason I pose this question is not because it reflects almost exactly the list that the Watchtower organization has long promoted, but much more importantly even in the case of the scriptures you cite to support this understanding, if anything I recognize them as doing just the opposite. I say this for a NUMBER of reasons, not the least of which is that ALL of the passages in the book of Daniel you point to explicitly identify ancient BABYLON as the first of these foretold "seven kings." (Da 2:36-38) (7:1-4) Yes I realize the JW organization evidently understands the omission of Egypt and Assyria in these prophetic visions of Daniel being due to the fact that they had already come and gone by the time of his writings, but the fact is there are SEVERAL major problems with this position when it comes to reconciling it with God's word.

To keep things as simple as possible here, I hope you don't mind if I propose we begin by endeavoring to follow your reasoning on Revelation 17:10, 11. (Ro 12:1) If we were to actually do so, then how do you account for the rise and fall of the British Empire that began in the late 1600s, and the subsequent rise and fall of the Anglo-American power that unfolded roughly two centuries later? If your premise for comprising this list is based on the fact that (as you say) "these administrations held sway over mankind" throughout our history, then could you please explain your reasons for suggesting that they would have no place in these prophesies of the "seven kings" or what Daniel also referred to as the "seven times?" (Da 4:23, 32)

I hope you can appreciate my dear brother that I am by no means trying to pick a fight with you. I simply chose to take you up on your kind invitation to engage on this very important topic. Among the reasons for this is I can easily continue to demonstrate from the scriptures that the correct understanding of these prophesies on the part of the anointed ones is among the MOST IMPORTANT things for them to grasp, and PARTICULARLY at this point in time.

So once again would it be viewed as presumptuous on my part to suggest that we soon pick up on this topic with what you have to say on this issue of encouraging us to completely overlook these two world powers in connection with your proposed list of seven?

Respectfully;
Sol

Get out of her
Posts: 969
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: “A wild beast with ten horns and seven heads.”—Revelation 13:1.

#30 Post by Get out of her » 3 weeks ago

Bobcat wrote:
I'm of the opinion that you (that is, Sol) are on an incorrect path regarding the "ten horns" of Revelation and your linking them to the ten tribe kingdom of Israel (even if in a symbolic way). But, of course, my opinion is not always right, and is also subject to change.
I don't mean to suggest that you have actually or even deliberately misquoted me here Bobcat. Nevertheless I would never word things in exactly this manner. This is because it might only tend to add to the abundance of confusion that already exists on the subject. What I HAVE pointed out from the scriptures on the matter on previous occasions would be much better represented with the following:

The moment we begin paying closer attention to scriptural accounts like Zechariah Chapter 11 where we are helped to understand that even the PRIMARY thing that was being prophetically pictured for SPIRITUAL Israel with the ancient two and ten tribe kingdoms of Judea and Samaria respectively was the distinction that would even CONTINUE to exist between the "shepherding" and "flock" folds of Jehovah's kingdom, this is the same moment in which we begin to be in a position to grasp ADDITIONAL scriptural symbolisms that are directly CONNECTED to this phenomenon. (Zec 11:14-17) (He 8:5) (Ga 4:22-26) Compare (Lu 12:32) (Joh 10:16)

For starters, (contrary to what we are always led to understand), as opposed to being comprised strictly of natural descendants of Abraham, from the word go this flock facet of Jehovah's nation was represented also as a "VAST MIXED COMPANY" of people who ultimately not only JOINED these ones in a mass Exodus of ancient Egypt, but also formally came under the same Mosaic Law Covenant and by extension came to eventually invade and settle the "Promised land" WITH them. (Ex 12:38) Is this already beginning to sound a bit more like some of the terms we find in Revelation such as—"all the nations" or "people of all the nations"? (Re 7:9 13:7, 8) Well if not it most definitely SHOULD begin to be associated with such scriptural terms when we learn not only that this same "Samaritan" entity was ALSO represented at times with the tribe of EPHRAIM, but in turn this "stick of Joseph" ITSELF was explicitly identified as a symbolic representation of—you guessed it---"the full equivalent of NATIONS"! (Ge 48:19) (Eze 37:16-18)

The moment we come to better grasp what was actually being conveyed with these particular "typical representations" we often find in holy text as well as the fact that these somewhat distinct facets of Jehovah's nation were ALWAYS represented as "falling" into spiritual adultery or "harlotry" at different points in TIME, I'd have to insist it would soon actually become rather DIFFICULT to continue overlooking some things right here also in the Revelation account that only continue to CONFIRM this understanding. (He 8:5) (Re 14:8 18:2) What exactly am I getting at here?

Particularly with this information in mind, do we REALLY imagine it is mere coincidence that just as soon as the SHEPHERDING facet of Jehovah's nation (which is ALSO of course represented at times as a sacrificial "LAMB" as opposed to simply a "two tribe" or even "two horned" entity) is prophetically pictured here in Revelation 13:7 as "falling" or otherwise being "conquered" by the "wild beast," it is immediately thereafter represented as now a PART of this same demonic entity? (Re 13:11) Compare (Re 16:13) If we are STILL failing to grasp the deeper meanings behind this symbolic spiritual language here in accounts like Revelation, wouldn't this now become virtually impossible when we immediately now read about a SUBSEQUENT spiritual "fall" of an entity identified as "every tribe and people and tongue and nation" and then immediately come to find THEM pictured as part of a great "wild beast" that just happens to now bear "TEN horns" as opposed to 'TWO"? (Re 17:3)

Well if we are STILL at this point failing to appreciate what it is that is being conveyed in these particular "signs" of Revelation, I might personally go so far as suggesting that we actually do not WISH to understand or accept what is being conveyed in these holy writings. Yes this "ten horned" entity has already been pictured a part of this "wild beast " on PREVIOUS occasions in scriptural prophecy, but these same scriptures make it perfectly clear that there would ultimately be SEVERAL times ("SEVEN times" in the setting of the "appointed times of the nations" ALONE) in which BOTH facets of Jehovah's nation would "fall" into this spiritual unfaithfulness or even "prostitution." (Isa 1:21) (Lu 21:24) (Da 4:23, 30, 32) It would be very important nevertheless for us to also grasp the following in connection with what is being symbolized by the "ten horns" as a part of these foretold "wild beasts:"

Just as was already laid out for us in holy text LONG BEFORE Revelation in accounts like Genesis 48:19 or Exodus 12:38, there is a VERY SIGNIFICANT distinction between what is being represented by these "ten horns" when ATOP or otherwise PART OF these "wild beasts" as opposed to when they are NOT. In the foretold periods of time in which Jehovah's true sheep are NOT guilty of having fallen into spiritual "harlotry" and by contrast are recognized as in a "saved" condition by their God, there is a small but nevertheless EXTREMELY significant distinction in the way that they are identified in scriptural symbolism. (Re 7:9, 10) Yes just as spelled out for us here in Revelation Chapter 7, as opposed to being identified simply as "all the nations," when this "great crowd" of "other sheep" are once again found in a situation of having received "salvation" for genuine REPENTANCE over this spiritual "harlotry" due to taking ADVANTAGE of this "CONTINUAL sacrifice" of this "body of MANY members of the Christ," they are distinctly identified now as "OUT OF all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues." (Da 11:30-32) (1 Cor 12:12)

We want to understand that regardless of whether it be referred to as the "sixth TIME," sixth "striking of the SHEPHERD," sixth "plunge into the figurative Jordan River, " sixth spiritual "planting and HARVESTING," "sixth SEAL," "sixth TRUMPET blast" or even sixth "KING," what we are considering here in Revelation Chapter 7 among the prophesies of John around 96 CE is the sixth foretold time in the setting of the "appointed times of the nations" in which this ongoing priestly process we read about also in the early part of the first century with John the Baptist and Jesus would need to be REPEATED due to SUBSEQUENT spiritually adulterous violations of the holy kingdom covenant. (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12) (Ge 41: 22-24) (Da 4:23) (Le 26:24) (2 Ki 5:14) (Re 6:12 9:13 17:9, 10) As the Apostle Paul pointed out in the MIDDLE of the first century, this foretold cycle or even "circuit" of events in connection with the figurative "cities of Israel" would end sometime after the "LAST trumpet" due to the fact that by this time ALL of the divinely appointed shepherds of God's nation would be comprised solely of "incorruptible and immortal" spirit beings who would no longer even be CAPABLE of violating a holy covenant between Jehovah and mankind. (1 Cor 15: 51-53) (Mt 10:23)

Agape love;
Sol

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