Is your Baptism still valid?

[Kerry Huish]

Yes, the Corinthians were observing the meal regularly.
Paul, on this occasion did not say that this was wrong but this does not mean that it was right either.

Babes crawl and bum shuffle and fall down often when learning to walk, but you do not discipline a babe for trying to walk, you encourage them to keep trying.
The Corinthians were babes and Paul treated them as such, they had much to learn, much more than what Paul could just write them in two letters.

Nobody's right till somebody's wrong... it's in the WAY that you use it, boy don't you know?

So don't you ever refuse it, it comes and it goes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kP1AFDDJoeE


Stranger, (1Cor 11:24)

You remind me of Bumblebee...

[Stranger]

You remind me of Bumblebee...

Thank you Kerry, bumblebees are much better pollinators than honeybees!


Stranger (Ps 118:12)

[Kerry Huish]

[Stranger]

" I never read it in a book, I never saw it on a show
I heard it in the alley on a weird radio.
Yeah I heard it in the alley now it's in my rock-n-roll.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVtHMDJcmxE




Stranger, (Lu 14:21 NIV)

[Bobcat]

Something to consider.
...
It is possible that Paul did not want to make an issue out of 'when' and 'how often' they were eating and drinking at this particular time.

We do know that the Corinthians received at least one follow on letter from Paul. We know it as the book of 2nd Corinthians.

It contains no further instructions about how often the Lord's Evening Meal was to be held. Thus, if 2Ti 3:16, 17 holds true ...

On the other hand, Paul also said what he did in Rom 14:5.


Bobcat

[Kerry Huish]

Something to consider.
...
It is possible that Paul did not want to make an issue out of 'when' and 'how often' they were eating and drinking at this particular time.

We do know that the Corinthians received at least one follow on letter from Paul. We know it as the book of 2nd Corinthians.

It contains no further instructions about how often the Lord's Evening Meal was to be held. Thus, if 2Ti 3:16, 17 holds true ...

On the other hand, Paul also said what he did in Rom 14:5.


Bobcat

So after your personal study into the matter, what have you resolved to do?

Do you celebrate it every day, every evening, once a week, once a month or once a year?

Kind Regards

Kerry

[Get out of her]

Bobcat wrote:

Dogmatism, by definition, is an unsupported belief or system of beliefs. The belief could be true. Or not. But it is put forth as a statement of fact with little or no evidence given to support it.

That’s fair Bobcat. And I want to thank you for pointing out the literal definition of the word dogmatic since I personally never bothered to look it up. Its clear to me now that this was a bad choice of words on my part when trying to point out that I would personally not presume to insist that the 1st century Corinthian congregation was observing the Lord's Evening Meal once a week since we really don't know how often they would (as Paul puts it) "come together" for worship. (1 Cor 11:20-22)

This is actually perfect example of what I have long been pointing out to the brothers and sisters for some time now about falling into the trap of understanding the meaning of various words based on what they have gradually COME to mean or convey over many years due to the MISUSE of them by the majority of people. This is of course ESPECIALLY dangerous when it comes to key words found in the Bible that are routinely used by basically everyone. Evidently I need to begin doing a bit better at taking my own advice in this particular area. Thanks again Bobcat.

Agape love;
Sol

[Get out of her]

Stranger cites ---(Lu 12:50)

50 I have a baptism to be baptized with, and how great is my distress until it is accomplished!

A very excellent choice of scriptures to cite here (Stranger) under this topic on Baptism. ANYONE would be hard pressed to come up with a better one to establish that ultimately the baptism that is being considered in the scriptures is not the mere symbolic token gesture we know of as water baptism. As has ALWAYS been the case even in the "illustrative" spiritual language found in the NEW Testament, it is the "REALITY" of what scriptural "signs" or "symbolisms" always POINT to that we should be focusing our attention on. (Mt 13:34) (Re 1:1) (Col 2:17) (He 8:5) (Ga 4:24) In fact even the symbolic gesture of WATER baptism itself (specifically) is explicitly identified in the scriptures as a mere "SYMBOL of repentance." (Mr 1:4) (Ac 13:24)

To at least some extent or other, what Jesus is conveying in Luke 12:50 is encompassing EVERYTHING that is being considered in the scriptures on this subject. The "leader" here of what would prove to be a "body of MANY members of the Christ" had at this point in time ALREADY received a WATER baptism at the hands of John the Baptist. (Da 9:25) (1 Cor 12:12) This water baptism in his case corresponded of course also with a secondary endowment of holy spirit which in the context of a broken kingdom covenant was identified by John as a "baptism of holy spirit and FIRE." (Mt 3:11, 16) This was all about Jehovah equipping him for a ministry to "Christ's domestic's" or "brothers" which in these foretold settings of national apostasy would prove to be very "trialsome" for both himself and ALL who would subsequently choose to "pick up" this same "torture stake and follow" this "leader." (Mt 16:24 24:45 25:40) (Lu 22:28, 29)

In other words, Jesus at this point was ALREADY experiencing this "baptism of holy spirit and fire" at the time he uttered the words there in Luke 12:50, and in fact a closer examination of the original koine Greek writings in this case will reveal that the word translated as "accomplished" in this particular rendering would have been better served with the word –finished. (Mal 3:2, 3) However by ALSO saying –"I HAVE a baptism"… here in his opening words of this statement, Jesus is actually helping us to understand that the final portion of this baptism ITSELF should be recognized ALSO as a baptism. Why is this?

This is because the FINAL step involved in a spiritual cleansing and rebirth of Jehovah's nation after an "apostasy" of it's appointed spiritual shepherds has broken another kingdom covenant (thus causing a SPIRITUAL death or a going down INTO these figurative baptismal waters) ALWAYS involves also a LITERAL death and rebirth of this "Christ" or "body of many members." (2 Th 2:1-4) (Da 11:30-32) This FLESHLY death followed by a SPIRITUAL resurrection (or otherwise what the Apostle John foretold for the "sixth" time this baptism would be performed on the theocratic nation specifically in the setting of the "gentile times" as a "calling up to heaven" of Jehovah's slaughtered prophets), was identified also by ones such as the Apostle Paul as a "blood inauguration" of a renewed holy "covenant." (Re 9:13 11:3, 7, 11, 12) (2 Ki 5:14) (He 9:16-18) Since this kingdom covenant is actually renewed with repentant anointed ones on the EARTH however, this of course means that God's kingdom has once again experienced a "birth" or "coming" on the EARTH. The way that the Apostle John words this event in Revelation 21:2 is as follows:

"I saw also the holy city, NEW Jerusalem COMING DOWN OUT OF heaven from God prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."

When we compare this wording to scriptures like Galatians 4:24-26, we learn that uttering the words—"New JERUSALEM" is actually another way of saying—new COVENANT. In fact the very DEFINITION of the name Jerusalem is literally—foundation of two-fold peace. This is exactly what Jesus is speaking of in accounts like Matthew 25:1-10 when he equates this brief ministry to the spiritual "virgins" and "widows" of a SPIRITUAL death to a kind of courtship that is designed to lead in turn to a kind of "MARRIAGE," or at least in the case of the more "discreet" ones among them. (Mt 25:1-10 34-40) You see this renewed kingdom covenant is also described in the scriptures as a kind of MARRIAGE covenant which when BROKEN would figuratively/spiritually transform even the more "discreet and wise" ones among the anointed into "sleeping" or spiritually dead "widows." (Ga 4:27) Compare (Isa 54:1-4) (Jer 3:8) The resulting severed spiritual relations with their heavenly "bridegroom" would also qualify them as spiritual "virgins" until this kingdom covenant could once again be renewed with them.

Now that a genuine expression of Jehovah's authority and power once again actually EXISTS on the earth, this figurative "Noah" will now proceed to do what it ALWAYS does after this figurative/spiritual "planting" and subsequent "harvest." (Ge 41:22-24) (Lu 10:2) Just as demonstrated for us also immediately after the "blood inauguration" of the kingdom covenant established in 33 CE, an incredibly powerful PUBLIC ministry is immediately launched by what are now UNIMAGINABLY powerful and scripturally knowledgeable theocratic shepherds. (Da 12:3) (Mt 24:30, 31) Just as illustrated for us with the prophetic drama of Noah and the great global deluge, this ministry is designed to now gather a LARGE "flock" of this shepherding fold into a kind of protective "ark" with the aim of furnishing them deliverance from the next impending "conclusion of the system of things." (Mt 24:37, 38 28:18-20) (Lu 12:32) (Joh 10:16) (Re 7:9, 10, 14)

Agape love;
Sol

[Stranger]

A very excellent choice of scriptures to cite here (Stranger) under this topic on Baptism. ANYONE would be hard pressed to come up with a better one to establish that ultimately the baptism that is being considered in the scriptures is not the mere symbolic token gesture we know of as water baptism. As has ALWAYS been the case even in the "illustrative" spiritual language found in the NEW Testament,

Thanks for picking that out Sol, I thought it was right on time myself too. You were talking about the word accomplished and I was using it as a double entendre when I told John S that I knew he would come fully equipped. I'm sure you remember the book called Fully Equipped to Accomplish our Ministry. It has an interesting title but I don't think they made sure of all things and are not holding fast to what is fine when it comes to the word fully. (Jn 9:37 KJV)

I enjoyed your post Sol, only six paragraphs instead of twelve that's way easier to stay focused on what you're saying!

This was all about Jehovah equipping him for a ministry to "Christ's domestic's" or "brothers" which in these foretold settings of national apostasy would prove to be very "trialsome" for both himself and ALL who would subsequently choose to "pick up" this same "torture stake and follow" this "leader."

The pressure of duty can be very rewarding.



Stranger, (Ro 15:27 KJV)

[Bobcat]

So after your personal study into the matter, what have you resolved to do?

Do you celebrate it every day, every evening, once a week, once a month or once a year?

I 'esteem all days alike.' (Rom 14:5) I also try to avoid 'observing days and months and seasons and years.' (Gal 4:10, 11)

celebrate it ...

I think there is a fairly wide gulf in our views. Your view still appears to be heavily influenced by the WT's view where the Lord's Evening Meal is an "event" and is attended by various rituals and a mass declining of the emblems which is viewed as normal.

Give yourself a few years to gain some freedom from the WT's view and then ask me again.


Bobcat