Many Abodes

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Many Abodes

#1 Post by Victor » 1 month ago

(John 14:2) 2 In the house of my Father there are many abodes. Otherwise, I would have told YOU, because I am going my way to prepare a place for YOU.

If Christ's brothers were to be resurrected as spirit persons, like the angels, would Christ have spoken of "many abodes"?

Or would they, like their Master, rise to heaven as men in bodies similar to Christ's at his resurrection? Somewhere between spirit and flesh a new creation, a new "abode"?

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Re: Many Abodes

#2 Post by Victor » 1 month ago

Resurrection, anastasis, a standing up of the body.

Christ's body was resurrected. It was this resurrection, a resurrection of the body, that Martha and Mary hoped for their brother in the last day.

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Re: Many Abodes

#3 Post by Victor » 1 month ago

Knowing that few will respond I add this:

(Matthew 26:29) . . .But I tell YOU, I will by no means drink henceforth any of this product of the vine until that day when I drink it new with YOU in the kingdom of my Father.. . .

There is no drinking of wine in heaven. Christ is saying he will return to the earth and drink wine with his disciples.

In the Kingdom of Ancient Israel the Priests served in the Temple for a set period of time then they returned to their cities, their fields and their families.

So also the anointed who are privileged to enter heaven, the Temple of God, they will also go home to the earth and act as priests to mankind teaching them all that God has directed.

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Re: Many Abodes

#4 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

Hi Victor,

The passage in Jn 14 about the many dwelling places has often made me wonder. Just to add to your thread on this, below are two footnotes from the NET version regarding the "many dwelling places" of Jn 14:2. They express possible ideas related to the passage that I had never thought of. And I suspect that some readers here will have ... 'issues' with some of those possibilities.

At any rate, here they are:

3 tn Many interpreters have associated μοναί (monai) with an Aramaic word that can refer to a stopping place or resting place for a traveler on a journey. This is similar to one of the meanings the word can have in secular Greek (Pausanius 10.31.7). Origen understood the use here to refer to stations on the road to God. This may well have been the understanding of the Latin translators who translated μονή (monē) by mansio, a stopping place. The English translation “mansions” can be traced back to Tyndale, but in Middle English the word simply meant “a dwelling place” (not necessarily large or imposing) with no connotation of being temporary. The interpretation put forward by Origen would have been well suited to Gnosticism, where the soul in its ascent passes through stages during which it is gradually purified of all that is material and therefore evil. It is much more likely that the word μονή should be related to its cognate verb μένω (menō), which is frequently used in the Fourth Gospel to refer to the permanence of relationship between Jesus and the Father and/or Jesus and the believer. Thus the idea of a permanent dwelling place, rather than a temporary stopping place, would be in view. Luther’s translation of μοναί by Wohnungen is very accurate here, as it has the connotation of a permanent residence.
4 sn Most interpreters have understood the reference to my Father’s house as a reference to heaven, and the dwelling places (μονή, monē) as the permanent residences of believers there. This seems consistent with the vocabulary and the context, where in Jn 14:3 Jesus speaks of coming again to take the disciples to himself. However, the phrase in my Father’s house was used previously in the Fourth Gospel in Jn 2:16 to refer to the temple in Jerusalem. The author in Jn 2:19-22 then reinterpreted the temple as Jesus’ body, which was to be destroyed in death and then rebuilt in resurrection after three days. Even more suggestive is the statement by Jesus in Jn 8:35, “Now the slave does not remain (μένω, menō) in the household forever, but the son remains (μένω) forever.” If in the imagery of the Fourth Gospel the phrase in my Father’s house is ultimately a reference to Jesus’ body, the relationship of μονή to μένω suggests the permanent relationship of the believer to Jesus and the Father as an adopted son who remains in the household forever. In this case the “dwelling place” is “in” Jesus himself, where he is, whether in heaven or on earth. The statement in Jn 14:3, “I will come again and receive you to myself,” then refers not just to the parousia, but also to Jesus’ post resurrection return to the disciples in his glorified state, when by virtue of his death on their behalf they may enter into union with him and with the Father as adopted sons. Needless to say, this bears numerous similarities to Pauline theology, especially the concepts of adoption as sons and being “in Christ” which are prominent in passages like Eph 1. It is also important to note, however, the emphasis in the Fourth Gospel itself on the present reality of eternal life (John 5:24; 7:38-39, etc.) and the possibility of worshiping the Father “in the Spirit and in truth” (John 4:21-24) in the present age. There is a sense in which it is possible to say that the future reality is present now. See further J. McCaffrey, The House With Many Rooms (AnBib 114).

I might mention that I like threads that explore possibilities. Also, I reworked some of the scripture citations in the quote so that they will work with the RefTagger app that is used in this forum. I italicised non-english words and added a link to one of the references in footnote 3.


John S
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Re: Many Abodes

#5 Post by John S » 1 month ago

Thank you Victor,

...for bringing up a subject dear to my heart.❤️🌈🙏

I also have thought long and hard about the angelic home, heaven, and what we will be like when we are resurrected to be with the Lord in the air.

I have my own ideas, which are rooted in scripture, and also proven by things here seen on earth, as far as even ruins of pre-Flood kingdoms of great antiquity and preserved by the incredible materials and fabrication used to build them, such as ancient pyramids world wide, not just in Egypt, and an underground tunnel system of amazing dimension under these pyramids and structures in all lands where they are found.

Also skeletal remains continue to be found of giant people, MEN, I believe not women. The facts show the Smithsonium Institute is active in hiding these artifacts and pulled the bones previously displayed publicly early in the 20th century.

It appears many mysteries that prove Biblical events are being hidden from modern men in an attempt to hide the Bible’s light to the world.

What’s new?

Evil rules, and the darkness is what envelopes the entire world.

No matter what modern men do, there are still many very well educated men and women who believe the story of a worldwide Deluge is an undeniable fact, and cannot be successfully disputed.

I, myself, have come to a conclusion about two facts, from personal experience, and the 1000’s of testimonies from people.there are alien beings visiting this world, in material spacecraft.....

And 2: There are creatures all over the earth RIGHT NOW, that I don’t believe belong here, but have been imported, as they are far more intelligent and powerful to mankind, and proliferating to a point now , that the US government sometimes sends out hit squads of black ops military type assassins to massacre families of these beings who have been attacking campers, hikers, and taking hostage and killing, possibly EATING people.

These are called Sasquatch, Bigfoot, and all over the earth they are seen and now more than ever.

Laugh if you want, I don’t care. I have seen one myself, and a few, possibly a family even moved here to my neighborhood over ten years go. I currently am trying to make contact with one, even.

I have a footprint cast pulled from my neighbor’s freshly ploughed garden. I was even in a rock fight with the one who seeks to communicate with me, until he started throwing huge rocks higher than pine trees, and must have been over a hundred yards away!

You must know, that I am one who wonders about all the paranormal events occurring , not just the heavens, and God and Jesus. By paranormal, I mean that very thing: not normal life as we know it.

Alien, cryptid (Bigfoot and even a newcomer, Dogman) UFO’s, Angels, GOD! All of this is what the world calls, ‘paranormal’, outside of known beings.

Most people do not pursue these interests of mine, but I am up to my ears interested in all of it.

It is established fact that there is a spiritual connection of some of man’s pets , like dogs, cats, horses, even canary birds, and many are the accounts of dogs, mourning the death of their masters even though knowledge of their accidental deaths was unknown until days or weeks later. There are books written about a psychic connection between some animals and their human owners. This is not a science yet, as it is so little understood, and the whole idea is absurd to ‘normal’ people who don’t give a darn about animals especially.

But just threw that in as another mystery that interests me, as a I had two experiences in that subject myself in my 66 years of life , once with a flock of hens I loved and had to give away here because of raccoons.

Well, I will share what I believe is the factual state of , ‘Abodes’, and even some angelic beings, though maybe not all....and may even have a lot to do with the FORM of Yahweh God, the Father, and even Christ our Lord.

This is taken from the scriptures in part, but there appears to be some contradiction in other scriptures, so I must admit to some speculation on my part which I will state right up front.


Heaven is a part of creation which God and Christ, who no doubt don’t need an abode to dwell in surely,.....made so that it housed angelic beings, and our little new world, .......which I will call, Man, and Adam kind. The Book of Job, chapter one relates the angels watched as mankind’s home was being prepared and also applauded when man was placed in it, NOT evolved from lower lifeforms, which is a high body slam to me when I see Evolution religion praised here on this site. ,,,instead of Christianity, the belief in the divinity and teaching of the Son of God.

So, I do believe the angels live in the physical universe, just as we do today. I also believe God and Christ have a place out there in this universe, some far away galaxy, where angelic , material beings live, flourish, congregate, and build structures , that defy the known engineering and mechanical equipment we fledgling humans have today, .....hence the Great Pyramid, and other stone structures which undoubtedly are pre-Flood ruins of the civilizations which according to the Bible , were created by angelic , man-like beings that conquered earth in pre -Flood history.

I also believe these beings, called angels, had sexual relations with beautiful women, and produced a hybrid race, the Nephilim.

These Nephilim, possibly , giant-size men, whose bones remain in Indian burial mounds in the US by the thousand, ( which were not made with primitive digging sticks of American Indians which is impossible actually as these mounds are tremendous in size), and are being ferreted away by the museum powers that be in the governments of the world, just as the UFO saga is, as governments seek to hide the facts.

The Book of Daniel says in the latter part of the days the true knowledge would become abundant. I believe we are not only in those days, but the truth has been accelerated since the internet. So now you and I can absorb much free time perusing the true knowledge.....or sifting through all of it, and deducing a workable conclusion , or belief.

I believe all the accounts in the Bible of Angels, show they are men like us. They ate, walked, talked, and were apparently strikingly beautiful in human form. They also had compatible DNA, and produced children.

These angels that sinned, coming to earth and captured it and enslaved it had a high knowledge of mathematics, and building techniques, and most likely advanced in everything compared to us here on earth. When the Flood came, it destroyed their ‘ga,e’, and back into the universe they went, with some form of restrictions. But that was only the ones who participated in the conquest of earth. Obviously not all did, as the Revelation 12 shows, the war in heaven is vast and I believe this means the stars and galaxies are full of life.

Today, some new angel beings are disobeying , coming here to probe mankind, and maybe are part of a Satanic rebellion themselves, as REv.12 shows they will come here at the end and play havoc again in politics.

The Dragon comes and stands on the sands of the seashore it says, and manipulates world government. Also Rev. 12 shows he actually comes to earth with angelic armies.

So, we have much proof that mankind, and alien, angelic kind, are human.

We are also told we all are made in the IMAGE OF GOD. I believe that means God and Christ have a form that appears just as we do, with two arms, legs, a head, hair, all of it, and the visions of the Gods confirms that.

It appears Angels do not die a natural death as we do.

When the punishment comes, they are to be burned up in fire. Rev. 20

So, with this brief sharing of my thoughts, I look forward to the Resurrection, to working in the universe above, and at first here on earth as a mighty Spirit/human being, not just human. Because those Sons of God, the holy ones, sons of the Kingdom are not normal men, but have been promised a body in the likeness of God’s Son, powerful, and immortal.

We will come back here after having finished our training as Paul said, and administer God and Christ’s instructions and healing waters of life, and fruit of life as Rev. 22 discusses.

This is a serious, yet wonderful privilege extended to ALL MEN who will reach for it, not just 144,000 IMO.

Possibly the 144,000 is a small part of the governance of the Kingdom, as there are degrees of faithfulness, and degrees of rewards accordingly. (See Luke 19)

Anyway, thanks again, for the fascinating subject which is my belief, and millions of others, to be Resurrected into the realms of the stars of heaven above, and experience the true revelation bodily of the vast array of life going on in the ever expanding universe God and Christ appear to still be making.

John S
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Re: Many Abodes

#6 Post by John S » 1 month ago

Correction: Smithsonian

My spelling falters the older I get. And I tried to fix that word 5 times, finally gave up. Re reading I remembered the pronunciation.

I must be the only one here too impatient to spellcheck everything.

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Many Abodes

#7 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Victor wrote:
1 month ago
Knowing that few will respond I add this:

(Matthew 26:29) . . .But I tell YOU, I will by no means drink henceforth any of this product of the vine until that day when I drink it new with YOU in the kingdom of my Father.. . .
Hi Victor,
I am glad you served up Mt 26:29

On a slightly different note, I believe that this is what Jesus actually said that night, see also Mk 14:22-26. Now compare what it says at Lu 22: 15-18, and Luke adds (Lu 22:29,30).... and I make a covenant with you just as my father made a covenant with you for a kingdom that you may eat and drink at my table and sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel... I don’t believe Jesus actually said that but that it was added much later.

When Peter had said to Jesus ...Look! we have left all things and followed you, what will there be for us?... Jesus had replied ...Truly I say, your, because of your following me, in the regeneration, [this word only occurs here and at Tit 3:5] , when the son of man sits down on his glorious throne, [you] will sit down on your twelve thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel, (Mt 19:28). I know this is not how it reads in most Bibles, but I have improvised because 'you' in each instance is plural possessive and 'following' is an aorist participle. So this sitting on their twelve thrones in the regeneration depends on their following Jesus at that time, and it is not a covenant he made with the twelve at the last Passover.

Reading on he said, ...and everyone that has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother on my account ...will receive many times more ... and will receive everlasting life... (Mt 19:29). This could also apply to them as he did not categorically state that they would sit on twelve thrones but said those following him in the regeneration, whatever he meant by that, are the ones that would do this.

He had already spoken to them about being rulers/kings when they had asked him who would be the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens, and he had said ..."Truly I say to you, unless you turn around and become as young children, you will by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens...(Mt 18:1-4). Young children do not concern themselves about their status but are only interested in the whys and wherefores. Then again not long thereafter when the mother of James and John had asked if her sons could sit on his right and left in his kingdom, Jesus had replied that this wasn't his to give but belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my father (Mt 20:20-23).

These verses indicate it is the Father, who knows the qualities that are needed for the task, that chooses those most suited.

Neither Matthew, Mark or the secret disciple (Jhn 21:20,24), who wrote the gospel attributed to John, say Jesus made a covenant with them for a kingdom. From Mark's account (Mk 14:18-20) we can see that, beside the twelve, there were others present at this last meal he had with them. And as for the secret disciple's account, who doesn't even record the Passover ritual, one gets the impression that nothing out of the ordinary happened. But he has written down all the additional important things Jesus did and said that night. If Jesus had made a covenant with them that night, surely the eye-witnesses would not have failed to record it. And the phrase, keep doing this in memory of me ) as at 1Cor 11:24, also appears to have been added later.

I stopped celebrating the memorial not long after I left WT org., and look forward to literally drinking a cup of new wine with Jesus when he returns.

But those that do judging are chosen by the father, he knows the kind of character he needs for this role. I imagine it wouldn't be an easy job, and I also imagine there will be a great variety of jobs in the kingdom, whether in heaven or on earth. And the, ‘receiving much more than we've ever given up with everlasting life thrown in,’ is also not a bad prospect. I could never picture myself in the new world as portrayed by the WT org. and the uncertainty of my place, if I have a place, in the regeneration makes it all the more exciting and something to look forward to.

Your friend,

John S
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Re: Many Abodes

#8 Post by John S » 3 weeks ago

To all readers...

You will notice the great orator LRW consistently downgrades passages of the Bible inconsistent with her ideas.

You will do well to take her advice and comments just as this person presents them: as one who does not believe the Bible is the Word of God, but riddles with contradictions and error.

So.....where will your faith be after listening to the advice and interpretation of this person?

Doubts......casting doubt on Biblical passages destroys any faith in the Bible you may have or had faith.

This is the same as saying “God is not powerful enough to preserve and protect his word from being defiled and ruined for his hopeful worshipers in these last days, fact, NO ONE is spirit born !”

Thats what this person teaches.

Did you know that?

‘The Apostle Peter was a murderer.’

Another of LRW ‘s teaching.

You are eating and drinking poison at LRW s table. Think about it.

There is a lot of commentary coming from LRW and its not good, as only those with full faith in Jesus’ teachings and are born of God’s Spirit are seeing the truth as it comes through the Bible and through the Spirit teaching you as you drink the water of life by reading your Bible in secret at home and prayer to Father Yahweh/Jehovah all the while.

John 10:25-30

“I have told you but you do not believe. The works I do in my Father’s name are my witness; but you do not believe, because you are no sheep of mine. The sheep that belong to me LISTEN TO MY VOICE: I know them and they follow me.

I give them eternal life; they will never be lost and no one will ever steal them from me.

The Father who gave them to me is greater than anyone, and no one can steal from the Father. The Father and I are one.”

Yes, this person seeks the glory of having followers who will praise his ‘wisdom and knowledge’....all the time denigrating the Bible as no light but a misleading and erroneous fabrication of men, although Christ says the Bible is God’s word and message for the world to bring us true knowledge and salvation , even eternal life. Matt.4:4

Beware any and all posters here and worldwide who seek to steal God’s sheep whom he has entrusted to his Son, the True Shepherd. John 10:7-18

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Re: Many Abodes

#9 Post by Stranger » 3 weeks ago

John S wrote:
3 weeks ago
You are eating and drinking poison at LRW s table. Think about it.
Hi John S,

"Every rose has it's thorn," I'll eat any and all poison
until I find the piece of bread the Lord has torn.

Sudden events happen unexpected at certain times.

Stranger, (Dan 4:31)

John S
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Re: Many Abodes

#10 Post by John S » 3 weeks ago

Yes Stranger....

This song, after reviewing the lyrics, which I never did before, shows the futility of ‘taking the low road’, as he sings, the road of warfare, and drug use that characterized the 60’s and where I spent my life in Northern California living among drugs, sex and rock n’ roll culture.

But I had enough of it, and turned to the real world , having faith in the Bible and just looking around seeing all that creation has to offer as belief and proof there is a Great Creator, and the Bible I believed was true all through out.

So, as Apostle John and Ezekiel did, I ate the scroll, the word of God and read it through my first time at 19 years old, and still today as I read it cover to cover again over 50 years later,

‘ I have something to believe in’,.....and I recommend ALL READERS HERE; get that Bible and start reading it from beginning to end. You will get the faith, that you need, and the advice from God himself through his Son and his prophets and Apostles that you need to carry you on into eternity.

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