Chiastic Structure in 1st Thessalonians

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Bobcat
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Chiastic Structure in 1st Thessalonians

#1 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

Linking to a post that outlines the chiastic structure in the "peace and security" statement in 1Th 5:3: Here.

Also, for reference purposes, here is a page on JWFacts with numerous quotes from politicians regarding "peace and security."


Bobcat

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Stranger
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Re: Chiastic Structure in 1st Thessalonians

#2 Post by Stranger » 1 month ago

Hi Bobcat,
Bobcat wrote:
1 month ago
Linking to a post that outlines the chiastic structure in the "peace and security" statement in 1Th 5:3: Here.
"When they say", "While people are saying", "Whenever it is that they are saying". I noticed you put that under action and not illustration,

Are we talking about the politicians themselves, or are we talking about the general public that has put their faith in those politicians and at that time of declaration of "peace and security" the general public is declaring also that these politicians have achieved their goal?




Stranger

Bobcat
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Re: Chiastic Structure in 1st Thessalonians

#3 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

Hi Stranger,

See my post here and the very next post. What I was pointing out about the verb rendered "are saying" (in 1Th 5:3) is that, in the present, active inflection that it has (same as in Mt 16:13) the meaning of a viewpoint, opinion, or attitude. So Paul is not foretelling some future "peace and security" event. He is saying that "they" will have this 'peace and security' attitude towards "the day of the Lord." Paul equates "the day of the Lord" with a thief. And "they" will be 'peacefully and securely' asleep when the "thief" arrives. That doesn't mean that "they" won't have their own problems to deal with. "They" certainly will and do. But as far as "the day of the Lord" is concerned, well, Paul is foretelling that "they" won't be losing any sleep over that.

Also, Paul doesn't even bother to include a subject ("they") in the Greek text of the verse. Translators add "they" because the verb ("are saying") is inflected 3rd person plural and English sounds/reads better when there is a subject included with the verb. So there is nothing wrong with translators adding "they." But it helps to keep in mind that Paul did not add a specific noun or pronoun as a subject of "are saying peace and security"

What that means is, Paul was not identifying particular groups who would be 'saying peace and security.' In the context, the only indication of who Paul was referring to is in 1Th 5:6 NET where he says that, 'we are not to sleep on as the rest do.' (See this post and this one for additional.) So that anyone (including the WT) who tries to identify who 'are saying peace and security' is merely interjecting their own ideas. "The rest" in the context of 1Th 5:1-6 is everyone outside of the Christian congregation. And Paul's encouragement to his fellow Christians is that they don't become asleep like "the rest" already are. "The rest" were asleep to "the Lord's day" in Paul's time. And he expected that they would continue to be asleep up until the day when "sudden destruction" (from God/Christ) would engulf the world.

Understood that way, 1Th 5:1-6 becomes very much like Lu 17:26-30 and Mt 24:37-39. This is why Paul could say that the Thessalonians already knew it would be this way. (1Th 5:1, 2)

In contrast, the idea that there would be some sort of 'peace and security' event just before the great tribulation (WT's idea) that would serve as a warning sign to Christians, this contradicts what Jesus said at Mt 24:42, 44; 25:13. (This is why JWs [for the most part] get all excited every time a politician uses the words 'peace and security' [like US Pres. Biden did on 1/20/21]. Thus my second link in post # 1 above. The WT keeps JWs in this heightened state of alert this way. But it is destructive spiritually because it is based on a falsehood and eventually leads many JWs to give up due to all the false alarms. And JWs, especially young ones, are leaving in droves, but usually away from Christianity altogether. All the while the GB concern themselves with maintaining their own position, just like Shebna. [Isa 22:15-17])

I hope all that answers what you were asking about. Sorry if it was a bit wordy.


Bobcat

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Stranger
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Re: Chiastic Structure in 1st Thessalonians

#4 Post by Stranger » 1 month ago

Bobcat wrote:
1 month ago
I hope all that answers what you were asking about. Sorry if it was a bit wordy.
Very Good Bobcat! And no it was not wordy, wordy would be running around in seven circles trying to come up with a figure eight. As always, from where I'm sitting I see you coming down the backstretch rounding the final curve out in front with a furlong to go.


Stranger, (Ec 8:8 KJV)

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