Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

This is the place to discuss anything to do with scriptural doctrine. It is the primary purpose of this site, and most discussions will be here.
Forum rules
Matt 18:6; Eccl 7:9; 1 Pet 4:8 (If you're not sure what they say then please hover over them with your mouse or look them up in your own Bible before posting)
Message
Author
Get out of her
Posts: 942
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#51 Post by Get out of her » 2 months ago

Victor wrote:
The queenly consort IS the daughter.
Yes what I was wondering here was your thoughts on exactly how this figurative daughter could succeed in "forgetting her people and her father's house" in order to have her "king long for her prettiness"?


Nevertheless doesn't all this make scriptures like the following extremely interesting? particularly since a "coming" or "birth" of God's nation/kingdom is always associated with the birth of a "son, a male who s to shepherd the nations with an iron rod" as opposed to a "daughter" who suddenly seems to be in desperate need of being wedded to a kind of heavenly "bridegroom"?: (Isa 54:1-4 66:7, 8) (Re 12:5) (Mt 25:1, 2, 10)



"To assign to those mourning over Zion, to give them a headdress instead of ashes, the oil of exultation instead of mourning, the mantle of praise instead of a downhearted spirit, and they must be called big trees of righteousness, the planting of Jehovah, for him to be beautified…..and strangers will actually stand and shepherd the flocks of you people, and foreigners will be your farmers and your vine dressers.
"Without fail I shall exult in Jehovah. My soul will be joyful in my God. For he has clothed me with the garment of salvation, with the sleeveless coat of righteousness he has enwrapped me, like the bridegroom who in a priestly way puts on a headdress, and like the bride who decks herself with her ornamental things." (Isa 61:3, 5, 10)


Would it seem to you that this figurative "bride" and "bridegroom" are ultimately being identified as the very same thing here in some sense? Would you perhaps have some scriptures to share with us as to what this terminology is actually conveying? Moreover in view of what seems to be your line of reasoning on the modern day state of "Israel," I'm curious about your understanding of what is meant here with "strangers standing and shepherding the flocks of you people"?

Agape love;
Sol

Victor
Posts: 50
Joined: 2 months ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#52 Post by Victor » 2 months ago

Get out of her wrote:
2 months ago
Victor wrote:
The queenly consort IS the daughter.
Yes what I was wondering here was your thoughts on exactly how this figurative daughter could succeed in "forgetting her people and her father's house" in order to have her "king long for her prettiness"?


Nevertheless doesn't all this make scriptures like the following extremely interesting? particularly since a "coming" or "birth" of God's nation/kingdom is always associated with the birth of a "son, a male who s to shepherd the nations with an iron rod" as opposed to a "daughter" who suddenly seems to be in desperate need of being wedded to a kind of heavenly "bridegroom"?: (Isa 54:1-4 66:7, 8) (Re 12:5) (Mt 25:1, 2, 10)



"To assign to those mourning over Zion, to give them a headdress instead of ashes, the oil of exultation instead of mourning, the mantle of praise instead of a downhearted spirit, and they must be called big trees of righteousness, the planting of Jehovah, for him to be beautified…..and strangers will actually stand and shepherd the flocks of you people, and foreigners will be your farmers and your vine dressers.
"Without fail I shall exult in Jehovah. My soul will be joyful in my God. For he has clothed me with the garment of salvation, with the sleeveless coat of righteousness he has enwrapped me, like the bridegroom who in a priestly way puts on a headdress, and like the bride who decks herself with her ornamental things." (Isa 61:3, 5, 10)


Would it seem to you that this figurative "bride" and "bridegroom" are ultimately being identified as the very same thing here in some sense? Would you perhaps have some scriptures to share with us as to what this terminology is actually conveying? Moreover in view of what seems to be your line of reasoning on the modern day state of "Israel," I'm curious about your understanding of what is meant here with "strangers standing and shepherding the flocks of you people"?

Agape love;
Sol
Sol,

I have nothing more to add except to say that we all must make ready in order that when the Christ arrives we are ready to receive him.

How do we make ready? Listen to Christ!

John S
Posts: 1159
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#53 Post by John S » 2 months ago

Why would I ever want to STOP repeating the words of Christ about receiving the Holy Spirit adoption and becoming one of the ‘Holy Ones of the Supreme One’? Dan 7

The entire Bible was guiding any who worship Yahweh and his Son now, into becoming ,’One’, with God and Christ , and having the heavenly hope to look forward to. John 14-17

Becoming a bride to Jesus Christ is the reality foretold for those who, after death, will be resurrected to the heavens to become the king/priests, used to restore all things and bring all things into harmony with God and Christ ....that is, those who will respond favorably.

Millions of Christians throughout 2000 years have become bonded to Christ through reading his words and communication with him.

Just because someone has been ill-taught, not responding to the clear message in the Word, and the teachings of the Apostles, like the JW religion teaches, doesn’t mean WE SHOULD REVERT to a doctrine that only 144,000 will go to heaven.

The offer of life in heaven to become Christ’s brothers in the household of Yahweh the Father stands for all who will respond.

“In the house of my Father there are MANY ABODES...” , Jesus said. Why, there are millions and millions of angels, already up there, and the universe, the ‘heavens’, are so vast the room for all who respond is virtually unlimited as far as the opportunity.

Jesus never said all the Christian faithful is only 144,000, but to the contrary, he gave illustrations revealing NOT ENOUGH people would respond....and HE WOULD send and send again and again the wedding invitation.

There is power to be attained by using Christ’s name. Even demons are fearful and will leave if we answer them with Jesus’ words and in his name.Luke 10:17-22

We must develop all new thinking and ways to approach God and Christ, and learn from the scriptural accounts written down.

Notice this experience of Paul: how Jesus came to Paul in REALITY, and spoke to him, instructing and even blinded him.

And so what does Paul do?

“Oh! I can’t speak to you, only Yahweh!”?

Certainly not. He talked freely to Christ and was guided, ‘ by the Lord’, throughout the rest of his earthly ministry. He and all the Apostles were communicating with Christ all the time. Many...many examples are mentioned about Christ being with them, and even the Holy Spirit is sent by Christ.

What in the world has happened is WT has taken all the teachings of Christ and changed them to mean we no longer become one with Christ or accept his offer to become his brothers,...his bride....the Soms of God, the heavenly King-Priests, born again into new creatures , sons of God, , born of the Holy Spirit, and in a special relationship with God and Christ.

Watchtower says THAT IS ALL OVER and done with.

Lies. All lies, and they will have to pay for teaching the lie, as they have become partners with the Liar. John 8:44

Get out of her
Posts: 942
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#54 Post by Get out of her » 2 months ago

JohnS wrote:
Becoming a bride to Jesus Christ is the reality foretold for those who, after death, will be resurrected to the heavens to become the king/priests, used to restore all things and bring all things into harmony with God and Christ ....that is, those who will respond favorably.
I'd have to insist that statements such as this are beginning to be more in line with what the scriptures actually teach. Nevertheless I would like to submit a couple of things found in the holy writings that should direct this line of thinking to a place that would be even more accurate.

Regardless of whether the scriptures happen to be relating their priceless "hidden treasures" or "sacred secrets" to us in the form of a prophetic dramas, visions, dreams, illustrations or parables such as we are currently considering at Matthew 25 in connection with the "foolish" and "discreet virgins," its important to understand exactly what is being represented symbolically with this figurative marriage found here. (Pr 2:4) (1 Cor 4:1) One of the things we are being helped to better grasp here in this case is the following:

The kingdom covenant that is ALWAYS in desperate need of being renewed with a "coming of the Christ" or "birth of the kingdom" after an "apostasy" of God's appointed earthly shepherds has broken it with spiritual adultery is also much like a MARRIAGE covenant. (2 Th 2:1-4) (Da 11:30-32) This is because a renewal of this covenant actually brings humankind back into God's family in much the same manner in which a new bride takes on the name of her husband along with any children that are subsequently born from this marriage. Any among mankind who are now willing to join this new family by formally ACCEPTING this covenant in turn are once again recognized by Jehovah as part of the "WOMAN and HER seed" as opposed to the SERPENT and HIS seed. (Ge 3:15) (1 Pe 3:21) Being a part of Jehovah's family in turn places humans in line once again for salvation. The fact that this salvation would be forfeited by spiritual adultery on the part of Jehovah's appointed earthly shepherds AFTER 33 CE is exactly what accounts for prophesies such as those from the Apostle John at Revelation 13:7, 8.

Jesus had actually renewed this broken covenant with the more "discreet" ones of the anointed "virgins" right around the same time that he is found to be giving this "Sermon on the Mount" here in Matthew 24 and 25. (Lu 22:28, 29) In fact this would prove to be the fifth of the "seven times" in which this cycle of spiritual deaths and rebirths or "baptisms of holy spirit and fire" were foretold to occur in the setting of the "times of the nations" or otherwise the foretold time span of "exile and captivity" of God's people. (Da 4:23, 32) (Mt 3:11) (2 Ki 5:14) (1 Sa 2:5) (Jer 1:3 15:9) As we can see right here in accounts such as with this parable at Matthew 25:1-10, obviously Jesus himself is prophesying that this holy covenant that he is renewing in 33CE would be broken and renewed on future occasions. So what is the point here?

Just as is also the case with a literal marriage between a man and a woman, they BOTH experience a change in their identity the moment this marriage covenant is formally adopted by them, whether it be the identity of a bride or a groom. Jehovah's holy covenant had of course ALREADY been formed AND broken several times with mankind even PRIOR to the occasion mentioned in Luke 22:29. (De 26:16-19) Moreover we can establish the fact that Jehovah recognized his covenant people as a "bride" even well before the year 33CE as it could of course only be in this manner that he would subsequently recognize their violation of this covenant as a "divorce." (Isa 50:1) (Jer 3:8) Clearly these people were not in heaven any more than the ones that Jesus renewed the covenant with in 33 CE. This would of course soon change in their case, but the fact that they were ALREADY now recognized as a kind of bride by Jehovah is precisely what accounts not only for the fact that they immediately began to serve in appointed positions of genuine theocratic authority and power on the earth, but also for the words of the Apostle Paul found in accounts like Colossians 1:13. Yes in at least some sense or to some EXTENT the ones Jesus is renewing the covenant with there in Luke 22:29 IMMEDIATELY began to subsequently sit on thrones to judge the twelve tribes of Israel. This was the case even if they would for the time being serve more as mere "stewards" on these thrones as opposed to full fledged "kings and priests." (1 Cor 4:1) (Re 5:10)

Its important for us to understand that Jesus' disciples actually became theocratically appointed or otherwise "APOSTLES" the moment their "discretion" and "wisdom" involved in actually listening to Jehovah's "two witnesses" and humbly making necessary adjustments led to them being officially assigned to join in with this "prophesying" or ministry to the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" as well. (Mr 3:14, 15) (Mt 10:5, 6) (Re 11:3, 7, 11, 12) While a "blood inauguration" or otherwise a heavenly resurrection of these "two witnesses" is of course ALWAYS part and parcel of completing this figurative wedding ceremony and thus making it completely official in the eyes of Jehovah, essentially its only real effect on these earthly Apostles is a THIRD anointing of the holy spirit that now empowers and authorizes them to begin performing works that are even "GREATER" than the "two witnesses" that renewed the covenant with them. (He 9:16-18) (Re 11:11, 12) (Joh 14:12 20:22)

Agape love;
Sol

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Majestic-12 [Bot] and 14 guests