Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

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Kerry Huish
Posts: 242
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#12 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 month ago

Stranger wrote:
1 month ago
Kerry Huish wrote:
1 month ago
Do you have a clear scriptural directive for this?
Hi Kerry,

I would start with (Neh 9:6) and compare it with (Col 1:16).


Stranger, (Ps 17:15)
The Nehemiah scripture says Yahweh did it and as far as I am aware, Yahweh is the God and Father of Jesus.
This same thought is reiterated at Isaiah 44:24

The Colossians scripture is not clear.
Depending on translation used, some render it as creation taking place through him rather than by him, this changes its meaning significantly.
Or are you saying that Yahweh is Jesus?

I would hardly call this a clear directive.

Kind Regards

Kerry

Kerry Huish
Posts: 242
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#13 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 month ago

Nehemiah 9:6
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Isaiah 44:24
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Colossians 1:16
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Translations that render it as through him: -

New International Version
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.

New Living Translation
for through him God created everything in the heavenly realms and on earth. He made the things we can see and the things we can’t see— such as thrones, kingdoms, rulers, and authorities in the unseen world. Everything was created through him and for him.

Berean Literal Bible
because in Him were created all things in the heavens and upon the earth, the visible and the invisible, whether thrones or lordships or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through Him and unto Him.

American Standard Version
for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;

English Revised Version
for in him were all things created, in the heavens and upon the earth, things visible and things invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers; all things have been created through him, and unto him;

Good News Translation
For through him God created everything in heaven and on earth, the seen and the unseen things, including spiritual powers, lords, rulers, and authorities. God created the whole universe through him and for him.

Literal Standard Version
because all things were created in Him, those in the heavens, and those on the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things have been created through Him and for Him,

Weymouth New Testament
For in Him was created the universe of things in heaven and on earth, things seen and things unseen, thrones, dominions, princedoms, powers--all were created, and exist through and for Him.

Young's Literal Translation
because in him were the all things created, those in the heavens, and those upon the earth, those visible, and those invisible, whether thrones, whether lordships, whether principalities, whether authorities; all things through him, and for him, have been created,

Kind Regards

Kerry

Get out of her
Posts: 919
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#14 Post by Get out of her » 1 month ago

JohnS wrote:
Luke 19:11-27 The Ten Minas

Here we see a pivotal scripture which incidentally shows proof Jesus was not crowned King until the ‘Times of the Gentiles Is fulfilled’, so he was not King when on earth in his ministry.

It is far away and in a faraway land, actually light years, and thousands of years in time before he is crowned and the sign is seen on earth to prove it. Rev. 6:1-11
Bobcat responds:
The reader is again invited to consider what is linked to in Post # 2 above to see whether or not there is Biblical support for Jesus beginning his rule in the 1st century. (Col 1:13)

Scriptures such as found at Matthew 28:18, 19 as well as the one there in Colossians 1:13 make it exceedingly clear that Bobcat would be correct to take the position that Jesus began ruling as a king immediately upon his resurrection to heaven. In fact the scripture there in Colossians is among those that should help us appreciate that since "Apostles" are ones that would be appointed by this heavenly king to rule over the earthly "camp" of this kingdom, to at least some extent they would qualify even during the first century as FELLOW rulers along with their "leader." (Da 9:25) (Song 6:13) This would hold true even if for the time being they would serve more as mere magistrates or "stewards" of their king as opposed to the full fledged fellow "kings and priests" they would become during the Millennial Reign. (1 Cor 4:1) (Re 5:10)

What we need to understand here however is that upon each and every foretold "time" (Da 4:23, 32) that the kingdom covenant Jesus renewed and inaugurated yet again in 33 CE would be broken with the "apostasy" that ones like Paul was continually warning about in accounts like 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8, there would be NO ONE on the earth for even the HEAVENLY "camp" of the "Shulammite" to rule over since it is ALWAYS this covenant that QUALIFIES people as belonging to Jehovah in the first place. (Le 26:9-13) (Lu 22:28, 29) It was precisely this broken covenant or apostasy that the Apostle John was officially announcing around the time of 98 CE there in 1 John 2:18, and these additional foretold apostasies are exactly what would account for additional foretold "chastisings" or "strikings" of Jehovah's divinely appointed shepherds along with additional/subsequent foretold "births" of this same theocratic rulership. (Le 26:14, 15, 24) (Mt 26:31) (1 Sa 2:5) (Jer 15:9) (Isa 54:1-4 66:7, 8)



Bobcat wrote:
Regarding the date for the fall of Jerusalem to Babylon, the Bible states that it happened in the 19th year of the reign of Nebuchadnezzar II. (2Ki 25:8, 9)

The reason this 19th year of Nebuchadrezzar doesn't even begin to line up with the year we arrive at by counting backwards 70 years from 539 BC NOR simply by paying closer attention to Jeremiah's words at Jeremiah 1:3, (namely 609 BC), is because what is being described there in accounts like 2 Kings 25:8, 9 has NEVER comprised what the scriptures identify as a "fall" of Jerusalem. In stark contrast, what actually occurred in 609 BC was PRECISELY what the scriptures identify as such. (2 Ki 23:31-35) (2 Ch 36:20, 21)


Yes the "fall" the scriptures speak of in connection with Jerusalem is a fall into "apostasy" or even spiritual "prostitution." (Isa 1:21) (Re 18:2) This spiritual fall ALWAYS qualifies the place "where their Lord was also impaled" NOT as Jerusalem, but rather –"the great city which in a SPIRITUAL sense is called SODOM and EGYPT…" (Re 11:8) It was precisely THIS that was undergoing the destruction described there in 2 Kings 25:8, 9, and in fact for the first of the "seven times" it was foretold to do so while experiencing the foreign "captivity and exile" spoken of in accounts like Jeremiah 1:3. (Lu 21:24) (Da 4:23, 32)


The name Jerusalem literally means—foundation of twofold peace, and it is in fact the holy kingdom covenant that this name is pointing to. This covenant in turn is also identified as a kind of marriage covenant. (Isa 50:1) (Mt 25:10) When divinely appointed kings like the ancient Eliakim form official alliances with foreign kings like Pharaoh Necho, this act of spiritual adultery qualifies people NOT as Jews residing in Jerusalem or otherwise in a covenant relationship with Jehovah, but rather as the "great harlot" that ALWAYS soon thereafter experiences the events outlined in accounts like there in second Kings 25. The JEWS on the other hand were in fact residing in Babylon at the time and experiencing all the blessings involved in the benevolent, just, and wise rulership of ones like the prophet Daniel and his three companions, or otherwise what is always commensurate with a RENEWED kingdom/marriage covenant. (Da 2:48, 49)

Agape love;
Sol

Stranger
Posts: 1787
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#15 Post by Stranger » 1 month ago

Kerry Huish wrote:
1 month ago
The Nehemiah scripture says Yahweh did it and as far as I am aware, Yahweh is the God and Father of Jesus.
This same thought is reiterated at Isaiah 44:24
YaHWeH, JeHoVaH, the tetragrammaton that's been filled in with vowel points is the God and Father of Jesus and the tetragrammaton created everything except what's not clear in Col 1:16 ? ;) Perhaps when it says 'For by Him all things were created"... it meant that Jesus just happened to be by Everything while it was being created. (such as in a sense if I were to say I was by the mall the whole time it was under construction and watched my Dad supervise the project to it's completion), but that wouldn't be a possible scenario taking it from the thought you got from (Is 44:24) now would it?

So I will ask you, just what do you think if anything did Jesus create?

All those ref's you produced, I'm assuming they are from Strong's I appreciate, but that's not where my faith lies. I respect that you read every translation available to you no matter the source of the backers of them.
Kerry Huish wrote:
1 month ago
The Colossians scripture is not clear.
Depending on translation used, some render it as creation taking place through him rather than by him, this changes its meaning significantly.
Or are you saying that Yahweh is Jesus?
I would hope that you can respect the fact I don't look in every Bible until I find the one that says things to suit what I'm looking for. I'm looking for everlasting life and I follow the Voice of Christ (Those that have ears let them hear). If I don't recognize His Voice I keep moving. Accentual Value (I think we have something on that here somewhere.)

As a recommendation you may want to work on that pronunciation.

Nice posting up with you.

Kind regards,
Stranger, (2Cor 6:2)

Kerry Huish
Posts: 242
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#16 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 month ago

Stranger wrote:
1 month ago

YaHWeH, JeHoVaH, the tetragrammaton that's been filled in with vowel points is the God and Father of Jesus and the tetragrammaton created everything except what's not clear in Col 1:16 ? ;) Perhaps when it says 'For by Him all things were created"... it meant that Jesus just happened to be by Everything while it was being created. (such as in a sense if I were to say I was by the mall the whole time it was under construction and watched my Dad supervise the project to it's completion), but that wouldn't be a possible scenario taking it from the thought you got from (Is 44:24) now would it?

So I will ask you, just what do you think if anything did Jesus create?
The way I currently understand it is this.

Yahweh or Jehovah created 'The Logos' or Jesus as his first and only direct creation.
Then Jehovah, by means of His spirit, through Jesus created everything else.

How this worked can be illustrated by analyzing the account of when the woman with a flow of blood was healed.
It was Jehovah that healed the woman, Christ felt the power go out THROUGH him, but it was Jehovah that did it, it was Jehovah's idea.

Mark 5:25-34 And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet instead of getting better she grew worse. When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, because she thought, “If I just touch his clothes, I will be healed.” Immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering. At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, “Who touched my clothes?” “You see the people crowding against you,” his disciples answered, “and yet you can ask, ‘Who touched me?’ ” But Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it. Then the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell at his feet and, trembling with fear, told him the whole truth. He said to her, “Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering.”

This shows that Jehovah can operate totally independently of the Son, but still through the Son.
This thought also harmonizes with what Jesus himself said: -

John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "Very truly I tell you, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.

The Son can only do what he sees the Father doing, when the Father creates something through the Son, the Son sees it, yes by means of Jehovah's spirit, the Son can then replicate it, but the credit and worship for creation is to Jehovah - He is the creator, not Jesus.

Replicating or copying something is not the same as originally creating it.
If someone today creates an original creative work it is copyrighted.
Anyone else who copies the original work, in one form or another, must pay a royalty to its original creator.

Jesus can only replicate the things that his Father has already done - very truly Jesus said that this was the case.
Any replication takes place by means of Jehovah's spirit.
In view of this, do you think it right to praise Jesus for any creation or replication or is this a stealing of praise and worship that rightly belongs to Jehovah?
Stranger wrote:
1 month ago
I would hope that you can respect the fact I don't look in every Bible until I find the one that says things to suit what I'm looking for. I'm looking for everlasting life and I follow the Voice of Christ (Those that have ears let them hear). If I don't recognize His Voice I keep moving. Accentual Value (I think we have something on that here somewhere.)
Stranger, (2Cor 6:2)
When it comes to searching for truth, we should not try to bend things into our understanding otherwise we will be limiting our understanding.

Proverbs 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding;

If we have a wrong idea and we only look for things that support this idea and reject anything new, then how will we ever get the correct idea?
In searching for Pearls of Truth, do we just look for ones like the ones we have already have or do we search for a Pearl of great value, that is better than the ones we have?

Matthew 13:45, 46 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it.

Kind Regards

Kerry

John S
Posts: 1149
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#17 Post by John S » 1 month ago

Right guys right. Let the scriptures speak for themselves: this is the way the Holy Spirit teaches, how else? They are called the ‘Holy Writings’-for a reason. 2 Tim 3:14-16

As for the 5 Discreet Virgins, and becoming wise in the light?

And as for the lamp and oil?

The scriptures are consistently clear throughout that light from God must be attained, and not only that, but followed, cherished, and obeyed. 1 John 5:3

It’s one thing to read the word, but another to obey it and preach the word.


Just because we may have retired or...GRADUATED from ‘Witness U’.....doesn’t mean we can’t preach the word, and read it to as many as we can...or refer to its prophecies and truths as much as we can throughout our daily routines. We are commissioned to do just that.

Here is a great place to witness, and worship, as is known.
But like in the movie, ‘Captain Ron’.....”if anything happens, it’s gonna happen out there’....out in the world is where we are supposed to ‘ let our light shine before men, that they may see your fine works and give glory to God.’ (Jesus)

After it became known that the Holy Spirit was coming inside Christians, and giving them the oil to ‘light the fires and kick the tires’, then it also was stressed we ourselves must keep our conduct bright and clean.

The Holy Spirit is given in abundance to us so we can do just that. In fact, Jesus, who consistently taught the word as light and life, said somewhere we are ‘sons of light and sons of day’, if my memory serves right.

So at a time a time such as this, all that can be said is encourage all of us to continue reading the Scriptures to obtain more light, and keep getting filled with the Spirit night and day, so we can remain ourselves holy in all our conduct.

It cannot be stressed enough, that this is worship: reading and living the Word, Christ, and his instructions, and hang on every word he said. Read the NT through, and eat his words, and drink his water. This is our faith.

Christians BECOME CHRIST. ....if they develop his Spirit in them by reading, praying, and in time, Kerry, you will hunger to say a few words to Christ.....that is once you get the courage to do it.

“And look , I am with you all the days, until the conclusion of the system of things.” Matt. 28

As you continue in building the relationship with Christ as we all have been instructed, you will begin to ‘taste the flavor ‘ in every book you read and letter of God. No more need for religious doctrines. Go right to the light. Ps. 119:109

“...that you may come to be blameless and innocent, children of God without a blemish in among a crooked and twisted generation, among whom you are shining as illuminators in the world.” Phil. 2:13

Yes as Jesus says....” let your light shine.”

Remember, the Holy Spirit will become the teacher, and as you study, connect up with him and read in the Spirit just as when you pray in the Spirit. Put your self in the Spirit and your mind will begin to see as never before. That’s what we do. We grow, according to how much Spirit and Word we take in, and the light emanates from us . Phil.1:8-11

Kerry Huish
Posts: 242
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#18 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 month ago

Kerry Huish wrote:
1 month ago
John S wrote:
1 month ago
The Son of God should be venerated and worshiped just as his Father: God also.
Do you have a clear scriptural directive for this?

Kind Regards

Kerry
Patiently waiting...

John S
Posts: 1149
Joined: 5 years ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#19 Post by John S » 1 month ago

Hi Kerry,

I’m sure you know every scripture I do and many more on that most important topic.....

....but I will say a few things , anyway.

John 1:1

Jesus is called ‘theos’. god, which is the way Wescott and Hort translate that. He is also called ‘The Word’ ....not,’ one of the Words, ‘ , as if other beings were like teachers, only Jesus has that Title..’The Word of God, The Only Begotten God , the only ‘only begotten Son of God’.

He is what men who build cars and boats , call a ‘one off’.....meaning, “only one was made like this....it is singular...unique”

Hen.1:1-3

“God, who long ago spoke on many occasions and in many ways to our forefathers by means of the prophets, has at the end of these days spoken to us by means of a Son, whom he appointed heir of all things and through whom he made the system of things.

“He is the reflection of his glory, and the exact representation of his very being, and he sustains all things by the word of his power; and after he had made a purification of our sins he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in lofty places.

“ So he has become better than the angels, to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs.”

The scripture above says a lot doesnt it? Meaty, full of points showing Jesus Christ is ‘No. 2’ in all the universe: seated at Almighty God’s right hand on his own throne.

John 1

“In the beginning was the Word; the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning, through him all things came to be, and not one thing had it’s being but through him.” The Jerusalem Bible( my fave)

Col.1:15-20

“He is the image of the unseen God and the first born of all creation, for in him were created all things in heaven and in earth:
everything visible and everything invisible, Thrones, Dominations, Sovereignties, Powers-all things were created through him and for him.

Before anything was created, he existed, and he holds all things in unity. Now the Church is his body, he is its head.

As he is the Beginning, he was first to be born from the dead, so that he should be first in every way; because God wanted all perfection to be found in him and all things to be reconciled through him and for him, everything in heaven and everything on earth, when he made peace by his death on the cross.”

Just those verses above should be enough for anybody to see Jesus has been set forth as God of this universe. It was made through Jesus by Father Yahweh, given to Jesus, and scripture says Jesus , by his power, sustains all the universe.

That means to me anyway, ....

....the sun shines tomorrow, if Jesus wills it.

....we have life in us , because Jesus gave us life.

...the billions of galaxies all, operating on Jesus’ power, and he CREATED this whole heavens and earth and all life in all its myriad forms , intelligence, beauty and love.

So.....dear readers....and you , Kerry.....

....isn’t that enough to make an appreciable person at least want to come before Jesus with awe and humility, and worship him as God of all we are, and see, and even the unseen beings?

Aside from the fact that when things turned upside down and sin corrupted the universe, all throughout the heavens, not just here, Jesus volunteered his life as a guarantee to God that he would save it...even BEFORE the sin entered the universe, God explained to Christ most certainly what would happen in creating beings with free will, and NO DOUBT Jesus accepted the challenge. Eph. 1:3-7

All this is not everything there are still other scriptures that call Jesus God, mighty God, and the Prince.

Its time now to begin to acknowledge what Father is telling us to do: Worship the Son as if he were ME!

Because if God was to DIE.........!

Jesus would inherit everything, he is the heir of God Almighty.

Father has given everything into his Son’s hands. Judgment, the universe. The entire Holy Spirit is at Jesus’ fingertips.

So....be confident when Jesus says, “Come to me, and I will refresh you”......” if you ask me anything in my name, and I will give it to you”....when Stephen was murdered , he called out under inspiration of the Holy Spirit within his dying heart ...” Lord Jesus!.......😭receive my spirit!”

So when you get to that point where YOU ...YOU! ...want to begin speaking to Christ personally in his name he has the authority as God of this whole universe seen and unseen,.....

.....to talk to his children.

Do it soon, show him and the Father you want the Son as your God too.

Kerry Huish
Posts: 242
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Do you WANT to be one of the 5 Discreet Virgins?

#20 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 month ago

I still am not seeing any clear scriptural directive for the statement you made?
John S wrote:
1 month ago
The Son of God should be venerated and worshiped just as his Father: God also.
Yes, I agree Jesus is unique, heir of all things, through whom the system of things was made, No 2 in all the universe the very image of God.

But this making of him into an object of worship, just as the Father and teaching and instructing others to do so...???

My previous comments regarding Colossians 1 makes clear how the role of Father and Son was and is and how Jesus' Father is the one who should rightly be praised and worshipped as creator.

The Bible clearly says that Jehovah is the creator.

Yes, we all sin many times, but to be teaching another to sin is a different rank of serious. Jesus simply put it this way: -

Matthew 5:19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

This being least in the Kingdom, if we contradict Jesus in these least commands, is very sobering...

Benson Commentary States: -
Matthew 5:19. Whosoever therefore shall break — Shall himself transgress in his practice, or pervert and weaken by his doctrine, one of these least commandments, and teach men so — Shall direct or encourage men to do the same, or shall teach them, either by word or example, that the obligation of these commands is dissolved; he shall be called — Or, shall be accounted one of the least, and unworthiest members in the kingdom of heaven — Or, Church of the Messiah, and shall soon be entirely cut off from it, as unfit for so holy a society, and shall have no part in the church triumphant. “There is in the text a figure, which the rhetoricians call μειωσις, diminution, often elegantly used to convey a strong idea. Thus, Galatians 5:21, They which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God, that is, shall be severely punished.” — Macknight. But whosoever shall do and teach them, &c. — Whosoever shall himself carefully practise these precepts of the law, and other parts of the divine word, and shall inculcate their universal obligation, shall be greatly rewarded.

______

One of these least commandments included Jesus instruction on who prayer should be directed to.
Teach us how to pray, Jesus disciples said, and so said Jesus: -

Matthew 6:9 “This, then, is how you should pray: “‘Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name,

Jesus directly taught that we should address prayers to the Father. Yet you are teaching a different doctrine that we should also pray to Jesus, the same as the Father.

Have you not broken one of Jesus least commands and been caught repeatedly teaching others to do so?

Kind Regards

Kerry

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