The Little Horn of Dan 7:25, 26 & the 3 ½ Times

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Harpo
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Re: The Little Horn of Dan 7:25, 26 & the 3 ½ Times

#21 Post by Harpo » 2 weeks ago

It's amazing how differently people interpret things. Daniel 7's 'fearful and dreadful' fourth beast is no exception. Most people believe it to be Rome but I see no evidence of that. In fact there's not one verse of end-time prophecy that points to Rome.

In Daniel 8 the little horn is said to come out of the he-goat AKA Alexander the Great and his kingdom. Daniel 8 clearly states the little horn comes from Grecia. It can’t be Rome, Europe, or the US because the Grecian Empire did not cover Rome or Europe!

And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. SO...

Alexanders splintered kingdom

Verse 8 - "Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven."

After the great horn destroys the Ram, FOUR notable horns come up from the he-goat which Alexanders four kingdoms- the little horn comes from ONE of those four Grecian horns.

Verse 9a - "And out of ONE of them came forth a little horn"
Verse 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. (Alexander the Great)

The ‘little horn’ of Daniel 7 and 8 who stands against the Prince of princes comes out of Alexander’s splintered kingdom and no where else. The ‘king of the north" in Daniel 11 and 12, who exalts himself in the time of the end, comes out of the root of Antiochus, which is a fragment of Alexander’s empire.

Daniel 7's fourth beast is likely Islam and the Islamic false prophet. But I'm not sure. Using the process of elimination - Rome is out!

Kerry Huish
Posts: 283
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: The Little Horn of Dan 7:25, 26 & the 3 ½ Times

#22 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 weeks ago

Harpo wrote:
2 weeks ago
It's amazing how differently people interpret things. Daniel 7's 'fearful and dreadful' fourth beast is no exception. Most people believe it to be Rome but I see no evidence of that. In fact there's not one verse of end-time prophecy that points to Rome.

In Daniel 8 the little horn is said to come out of the he-goat AKA Alexander the Great and his kingdom. Daniel 8 clearly states the little horn comes from Grecia. It can’t be Rome, Europe, or the US because the Grecian Empire did not cover Rome or Europe!

And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. SO...

Alexanders splintered kingdom

Verse 8 - "Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven."

After the great horn destroys the Ram, FOUR notable horns come up from the he-goat which Alexanders four kingdoms- the little horn comes from ONE of those four Grecian horns.

Verse 9a - "And out of ONE of them came forth a little horn"
Verse 21 And the rough goat is the king of Grecia: and the great horn that is between his eyes is the first king. (Alexander the Great)

The ‘little horn’ of Daniel 7 and 8 who stands against the Prince of princes comes out of Alexander’s splintered kingdom and no where else. The ‘king of the north" in Daniel 11 and 12, who exalts himself in the time of the end, comes out of the root of Antiochus, which is a fragment of Alexander’s empire.

Daniel 7's fourth beast is likely Islam and the Islamic false prophet. But I'm not sure. Using the process of elimination - Rome is out!
My take...

Daniel 8:20-22 “The two-horned ram that you saw stands for the kings of Meʹdi·a and Persia. The hairy male goat stands for the king of Greece; and the great horn that was between its eyes stands for the first king. As for the horn that was broken, so that four stood up instead of it, there are four kingdoms from his nation that will stand up, but not with his power.

History testifies that Greece did in fact conquer Media-Persia in 331 BCE and that Alexander the Great died suddenly in 323 BCE with his kingdom being divided up amongst 4 of his generals: -

Daniel 8:8 Then the male goat exalted itself exceedingly, but as soon as it became mighty, the great horn was broken; then four conspicuous horns came up instead of the one, toward the four winds of the heavens.

These 4 generals battled each other until there was but a clear two remaining, a King who ruled over the lands North of Israel (Syria) and a King who ruled over the lands South of Israel (Egypt).

Daniel 8:9-12 Out of one of them came another horn, a small one, and it grew very great toward the south and toward the east and toward the Decoration. It grew so great that it reached all the way to the army of the heavens, and it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it trampled them down. It exalted itself even against the Prince of the army, and from him the constant feature was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. And an army was given over, together with the constant feature, because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success.

One of the 4 generals would arise and become very great towards the South and towards the land of Israel or the land of the decoration as it is referred to here – see Psalms 48:2.
This parallels the account of the foretold exploits of the King of the North in Daniel 11: -

Daniel 11:13-15 “And the king of the north will return and muster a crowd larger than the first; and at the end of the times, after some years, he will surely come with a large army and with many resources. In those times many will stand up against the king of the south.“ And the violent ones among your people will be carried along to try making a vision come true; but they will stumble.“ And the king of the north will come and throw up a siege rampart and capture a fortified city. And the arms of the south will not stand, nor will his select men; and they will have no power to stand. The one coming against him will do as he pleases, and no one will stand before him. He will stand in the land of the Decoration, and ability to exterminate will be in his hand.

History testifies that The King of the North did indeed conquer the King of the South and Israel, or the land of the Decoration. ** See history.
But it was during this time that Rome, the commander mentioned in Daniel 11:18, emerged as a world power: -

Daniel 11:18, 19 He will turn his face back to the coastlands and will capture many. And a commander will make the reproach from him cease for himself, so that his reproach will not be. He will make it turn back on that one. Then he will turn his face back to the fortresses of his own land, and he will stumble and fall, and he will not be found.

Antiochus III lost a decisive battle to Rome in 190 BCE (the battle of Magnesia) he had to give up everything in Greece, Asia Minor, and in areas west of the Taurus Mountains. Rome exacted a heavy fine and established its domination over the Syrian King of the North. After this, Antiochus III and the Seleucid dynasty became a 'mere King in the North' whereas Rome had transcended to being the actual King of the North.
Syria finally became a Roman province in 64 BCE. Rome conquered Israel – or the land of decoration – in 63 BCE and conquered Egypt or the South in 30 BCE.

So between Daniel 8:9 and Daniel 8:10 we see a change in who the King of the North was. This is what this ruler (Rome) was foretold to accomplish: -

Daniel 8:10 It grew so great that it reached all the way to the army of the heavens, and it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it trampled them down.

This causing of some of the Army and some of the Stars to fall seems be a reference to the many sons of Israel that were killed when Herod was trying to exterminate the future King of Israel. The Herod’s were a dynasty that ruled over the Jews by appointment from Rome: -

Mathew 2:16-18 Then Herod, seeing that he had been outwitted by the astrologers, flew into a great rage, and he sent out and had all the boys in Bethʹle·hem and in all its districts killed, from two years of age and under, according to the time that he had carefully ascertained from the astrologers. Then was fulfilled what was spoken through Jeremiah the prophet, who said: “A voice was heard in Raʹmah, weeping and much wailing. It was Rachel weeping for her children, and she was unwilling to take comfort, because they are no more.”

Yes, some of the Army (Israel) and even some of the Sons of Judah (Stars) were made to fall to the Earth because of Herod. But Jesus, the true Son of God, the true Prince of the Army initially escaped this slaughter: -

Matthew 2:13 After they had departed, look! Jehovah’s angel appeared to Joseph in a dream, saying: “Get up, take the young child and his mother and flee to Egypt, and stay there until I give you word, for Herod is about to search for the young child to kill him.” So Joseph got up and by night took along the young child and the child’s mother and went into Egypt. He stayed there until the death of Herod. This fulfilled what was spoken by Jehovah through his prophet, saying: “Out of Egypt I called my son.”

Later, Rome would exalt over the Prince of the Army and be instrumental in his death and in removing the Constant Feature: -

Daniel 8:11 It exalted itself even against the Prince of the army, and from him the constant feature was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down.

This is also alluded to in Daniel 8:25, as is a bold statement that the King would not be broken or conquered by a human hand: -

Daniel 8:25 And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.

Rome was never conquered by another nation.

Regarding Rome’s role in exalting itself even against the Prince of the Army, taking away the Constant Feature and throwing down the established place of his sanctuary, we must consider what sanctuary we are talking about.
When Jesus was on Earth and from the time he was anointed with Jehovah’s spirit in 29 CE his body was a temple or sanctuary: -

John 2:19-21 Jesus replied to them: “Tear down this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” The Jews then said: “This temple was built in 46 years, and will you raise it up in three days?” But he was talking about the temple of his body.

Jesus, the Prince of the Army and the true temple sanctuary, was executed or thrown down at the hands of Rome on Nisan 14 33 CE – this is indisputable.

Kind Regards

Kerry

Kerry Huish
Posts: 283
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: The Little Horn of Dan 7:25, 26 & the 3 ½ Times

#23 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 weeks ago

Regarding the 'cunning and deception' mentioned in Dan 8:25: -

Daniel 8:25 And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.

This parallels Daniel 11:21, 22: -

Daniel 11:21, 22 “He will be succeeded by a contemptible person who has not been given the honor of royalty. He will invade the kingdom when its people feel secure, and he will seize it through intrigue. Then an overwhelming army will be swept away before him; both it and a prince of the covenant will be destroyed.

This is talking about Tiberius Caesar, a man who was contemptible, under his hand the 'Prince of the Covenant' was broken - see history of how Tiberius came to be Caesar.
Tiberius gained control in a very clever way. Due to the circumstances, he was a forced choice as heir due to the deaths of Lucius and Gaius. He never received the kind of honor that Augustus had achieved.

The ruler prior to Tiberius was Augustus. It was Augustus that causes a census to occur, which resulted in Jesus being born in Bethlehem.

Daniel 11:20 "His successor will send out a tax collector to maintain the royal splendor. In a few years, however, he will be destroyed, yet not in anger or in battle.
Luke 2:1 In those days Caesar Augustus issued a decree that a census should be taken of the entire Roman world.

Did Augustus die a few years after this, not in anger or battle?

WIKI:-
Caesar Augustus (23 September 63 BC – 19 August AD 14)
On 19 August AD 14, Augustus died while visiting Nola where his father had died. Both Tacitus and Cassius Dio wrote that Livia was rumored to have brought about Augustus's death by poisoning fresh figs.[211][212] This element features in many modern works of historical fiction pertaining to Augustus's life, but some historians view it as likely to have been a salacious fabrication made by those who had favoured Postumus as heir, or other of Tiberius's political enemies. Livia had long been the target of similar rumors of poisoning on the behalf of her son, most or all of which are unlikely to have been true.[213]

Thus, the little horn of Daniel 7 is a different matter altogether and is not related to the little horn of Daniel 8.

So my take is = Rome is in.

Kind Regards

Kerry

Kerry Huish
Posts: 283
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: The Little Horn of Dan 7:25, 26 & the 3 ½ Times

#24 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 weeks ago

Regarding 'not being broken by human hand...'

Daniel 8:25 And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.

If this is to be applied towards Tiberius, then he died of old age, he was not broken by human hand even though he was the one who was in charge when Jesus was put to death.
If applied to Rome, then it was never conquered by another nation.

Kind Regards

Kerry

Harpo
Posts: 19
Joined: 2 weeks ago

Re: The Little Horn of Dan 7:25, 26 & the 3 ½ Times

#25 Post by Harpo » 2 weeks ago

Sorry but I find your replies confusing and honestly, I believe very little of it.

Not one verse of end-time prophecy points to Rome - NOT ONE! Every verse of end-time prophecy points to Arab, Persian, and Islamic countries today. There's ONE 'little horn' and it comes out of Alexanders splintered empire...NOT ROME!

Kerry Huish
Posts: 283
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: The Little Horn of Dan 7:25, 26 & the 3 ½ Times

#26 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 weeks ago

Harpo wrote:
2 weeks ago
Sorry but I find your replies confusing and honestly, I believe very little of it.

Not one verse of end-time prophecy points to Rome - NOT ONE! Every verse of end-time prophecy points to Arab, Persian, and Islamic countries today. There's ONE 'little horn' and it comes out of Alexanders splintered empire...NOT ROME!
You are free to believe as you wish...

The little horn of Daniel 8 comes from one of the 4 horns = correct.
But this little horn was later conquered by Rome = fact.

The little horn of Daniel 7 comes from or after the 10 horns of the 4th beast - aka Rome.
When Rome fell into disarray you are looking for an emerging world power that came from it - aka Great Britain / USA
But this is a different story altogether.

Bobcat
Posts: 3452
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: The Little Horn of Dan 7:25, 26 & the 3 ½ Times

#27 Post by Bobcat » 2 weeks ago

Hi Kerry,
Sorry but I find your replies confusing and honestly, I believe very little of it.
I see a trend developing: Compare the first line of the post here.


Bobcat

Kerry Huish
Posts: 283
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: The Little Horn of Dan 7:25, 26 & the 3 ½ Times

#28 Post by Kerry Huish » 2 weeks ago

Bobcat wrote:
2 weeks ago
Hi Kerry,
Sorry but I find your replies confusing and honestly, I believe very little of it.
I see a trend developing: Compare the first line of the post here.


Bobcat
Proverbs 21:2 Every way of a man is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the heart.

Bobcat
Posts: 3452
Joined: 7 years ago

Re: The Little Horn of Dan 7:25, 26 & the 3 ½ Times

#29 Post by Bobcat » 2 weeks ago

Good thought! Thanks.


Bobcat

Harpo
Posts: 19
Joined: 2 weeks ago

Re: The Little Horn of Dan 7:25, 26 & the 3 ½ Times

#30 Post by Harpo » 2 weeks ago

Kerry Huish wrote:
2 weeks ago
Harpo wrote:
2 weeks ago
Sorry but I find your replies confusing and honestly, I believe very little of it.

Not one verse of end-time prophecy points to Rome - NOT ONE! Every verse of end-time prophecy points to Arab, Persian, and Islamic countries today. There's ONE 'little horn' and it comes out of Alexanders splintered empire...NOT ROME!
You are free to believe as you wish...

The little horn of Daniel 8 comes from one of the 4 horns = correct.
But this little horn was later conquered by Rome = fact.

The little horn of Daniel 7 comes from or after the 10 horns of the 4th beast - aka Rome.
If someone asked, "where does the little horn come from?" I can lead them to Daniel who clearly states GREECE!

What you're doing is typical of people who fabricate things to suit their beliefs. Now your saying there are TWO little horns. Pre-tribbers do that with the rapture. They create another rapture because if they didn't, pre-trib is debunked from the get-go. Daniel's little horn in Chapter 7 is destroyed by Christ upon his return.

You cannot prove anything about Rome because not ONE verse of prophecy imply Rome. Have at it. Quote ONE verse where Rome is specifically implied! You can't do it because Rome is no where to be found in end-time prophecy.
When Rome fell into disarray you are looking for an emerging world power that came from it - aka Great Britain / USA
But this is a different story altogether.
I'd rather not hear the story because I likely know it and it's nothing but pure fabrication - just like your TWO little horns.

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