Curious & Difficult Bible Sayings

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Bobcat
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Re: Curious & Difficult Bible Sayings

#91 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

Some reference material on Lu 10:4 and the phrase, "greet no one on the road": Here.

I'm not sure why this seemed important at the time. But I hate for all this reference material to go to waste. It might prove useful to someone at some point.


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Stranger
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Re: Curious & Difficult Bible Sayings - Jn 9:4

#92 Post by Stranger » 1 month ago

"For by grace are ye saved through faith... not of works" (Eph 2:8-9)

Those are some interesting words but not the ones in question here.

The question is: Why do newer versions of the Bible put us to work while the older ones have Jesus doing the work?

(Jn 9:4 KJV)....... (Jn 9:4)


Stranger, (Gal 2:16 KJV)

Bobcat
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Re: Curious & Difficult Bible Sayings - Jn 9:4

#93 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

Hi Stranger,

The question is about "I" or "We" in Jn 9:4. Below are some references that discuss this:
1. This is a web site that favors the KJV reading of "I."

2. Here is the commentary page at BibleHub for Jn 9:4. The majority opinion of these commentaries is that the plural reading is better supported in the MSS. And thus, Jesus is including his disciples as part of what he is saying. (Ted Armstrong, of Worldwide Church of God fame, favors the plural reading, but views the plural as being Jesus + the Holy Spirit. I haven't seen any other reference so far in agreement with his view, but it is an interesting take.)

3. Here is Robertson's Word Pictures in PDF format. The link should open it to the page on Jn 9:4. He also favors the plural as the better reading. It might take a few seconds for the PDF to load depending on your connection speed. After it loads it should automatically page down to the correct page.

4. A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament (Bruce M. Metzger, p. 194) says:
Although it is difficult to choose among the readings, a majority of the Committee preferred ἡμᾶς δεῖ ["We must"], (a) because of its somewhat superior external support, and (b) because it is slightly more probable that copyists would have altered ἡμᾶς ["We"] to ἐμὲ ["I"] than vice versa.
(Incidentally, this reference is a 700 page pocket size book which I usually have on me all the time in my laptop bag. It discusses variations in the NT text and is fairly up-to-date (1994), so that it represents the latest in NT scholarship on textual issues.)

Having mentioned these references, I could see either plural or singular being workable. Neither seems to present an idea that would distort Christianity on a larger scale.

The differences in MSS readings are basically split between Textus Receptus (used for the KJV), Byzantine & Greek Orthodox favoring the singular. And the Western Texts (Nestle-Aland, UBS, WH & Tischendorf) favoring the plural. (See here and scroll down a little.) From experience looking these kinds of things up, many of the textual variations fall along these two lines, so that they represent the historical split in the church between eastern and western brands.


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Bobcat
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Re: Curious & Difficult Bible Sayings - Pr 25:23

#94 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

This post (in another thread) and the following three posts (starting here) discuss a problematic proverb (Pr 25:23).


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Bobcat
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Re: Curious & Difficult Bible Sayings - Jn 19:14

#95 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

An article describing the problem with "the sixth hour" of Jn 19:14 and a possible solution: Here. (Thanks to poster goghtherefore for the link to this article.)


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Bobcat
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Re: Curious & Difficult Bible Sayings - Gen 3:16

#96 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

For some discussion regarding several aspects of Gen 3:16, see this post with included links.


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FriendlyDoggo
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Re: Curious & Difficult Bible Sayings

#97 Post by FriendlyDoggo » 1 month ago

"In the name..." or "In my name..." ?

Tadua's articles let me jaw dropped!

https://understandtheword.com/christian ... -scripture

https://understandtheword.com/christian ... -centuries
My english isn't very good, sorry any inconvenience.

Stranger
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Re: Curious & Difficult Bible Sayings - Lu 4:4

#98 Post by Stranger » 1 month ago

Does anyone know if there is a good reason why most modern translations of the Bible didn't finish Luke's quote at (Lu 4:4)? And in not doing so, wouldn't that mean that they (the modern translations) are hiding every word of God's?


Stranger, (Lu 4:4 KJV)

Bobcat
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Re: Curious & Difficult Bible Sayings - Lu 4:4

#99 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

There is a footnote (# 13) about this in the NET Bible at Lu 4:4. It says:
sn A quotation from Deut 8:3. Jesus will live by doing God’s will, and will take no shortcuts.

tc Most mss (A [D] Θ Ψ [0102] ƒ 33 M latt) complete the citation with ἀλλ᾿ ἐπὶ παντὶ ῥήματι θεοῦ (all’ epi panti rhēmati theou, “but by every word from God”), an assimilation to Matt 4:4 (which is a quotation of Deut 8:3). The shorter reading is found in א B L W 1241 sa. There is no good reason why scribes would omit the rest of the quotation here. The shorter reading, on both internal and external grounds, should be considered the autographic wording in Luke.

Although not related to the question, footnote # 14 had an interesting comment about the order of the temptations. Number two and three in Luke are reversed from Matthew. Compare:
1. Mt 4:3-4 with Lu 4:3-4
2. Mt 4:5-7 with Lu 4:5-8
3. Mt 4:8-9 with Lu 4:9-12

Below is the footnote about the order of the tempations:
sn The order of Luke’s temptations differs from Matthew’s at this point as numbers two and three are reversed. It is slightly more likely that Luke has made the change to put the Jerusalem temptation last, as Jerusalem is so important to Luke’s later account. The temporal markers in Matthew’s account are also slightly more specific.

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Stranger
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Re: Curious & Difficult Bible Sayings

#100 Post by Stranger » 1 month ago

Let's read (Deut 32:39).... now ask yourself how many gods were with God then? You should come up with a total of none.

Now read (Jhn 1:1-3) in the NWT and ask yourself how many God's are present there. You should come up with a total of two using the NWT.



Stranger

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