Revelation

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#231 Post by coccus ilicis » 2 months ago

Before moving on to Rev chapter 19 it is necessary to discuss the earlier experimental projects of the harlot that have thus far not been discussed in this thread.

In post 227 above I posted the link to this file from the FBI archive vault
On August 19 of this year for whatever reason, the FBI released the book from its vaults...
FBI Records Vault
And added this comment:
This is the tricky bit. Divide and conquer has been a tool used with great success for centuries. Was the FBI release of the Protocols, accidental or planned?
The release of the Protocols from the FBI vault comes on the eve of the so-called 4th Industrial Revolution that is to bring an end to the capitalist system of governance. The Protocols describes how this system was introduced and implement. What it doesn’t discuss is how the same clan, responsible for the capitalist debacle that exists today was also the architect of Marxist Communism. Many readers will only have the vaguest idea of what really happened at that time. This link provides links to videos and graphic live footage of that time, viewer discretion is advised. Zionists Russian Revolution
The Jewish Telegraphic Agency, give their side of the story here.
What was the Jewish role in 1917 Russian Revolution? This Moscow museum gives a full picture.

In post 228 above is the promotional video, 'The Fourth Industrial Revolution' and a summary of what is to be discussed in the 'Great Reset Summit, planed for Jan 2021. And I added the comment:
Admirable goals and a step in the right direction, are they not?
What is not stated in the promotional material is that private property ownership will be eliminated, all land/property will be owned by the state apparatus. This experiment was tried in communist Russia.

The movie, 'The Fool, 1914' shows the reality of what happened under communism, when all property was owned by the state. The producer is not towing any particular party line, but seeks to demonstrate the predicament of a person who is determined to stick to his moral principles in a world without a moral anchor. I suggest that the reader watches it on youtube so that they can read the comments of those that have experienced it.


It appears that the harlot controllers of the prospective 8th beast, have taken on board what they learnt from the communist experiment and therefore include the Religious educational element in the proposed 8th beast, to serve as the necessary moral anchor.
LRW~

Stranger
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Re: Revelation

#232 Post by Stranger » 2 months ago

Hi Coccus, and to all,

Thank you for posting the Russian movie, it was very interesting. I never thought I would watch a Russian movie but I did and I'm glad I did.

The ending was a little disappointing, I was really hoping to see the building collapse (with the people out of it of course.)

Maybe I was just seeing things like I often do, but when the plumber first observed the crack in the tenant's (wrong word perhaps) bathroom, I saw a face about half way up the wall. Did you notice that? I even rewound the movie to see it again and sure enough there it was again.


Stranger, (Acts 6:14-15)

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#233 Post by coccus ilicis » 2 months ago

Stranger wrote:
2 months ago
Hi Coccus, and to all,

Thank you for posting the Russian movie, it was very interesting. I never thought I would watch a Russian movie but I did and I'm glad I did.

The ending was a little disappointing, I was really hoping to see the building collapse (with the people out of it of course.)

Maybe I was just seeing things like I often do, but when the plumber first observed the crack in the tenant's (wrong word perhaps) bathroom, I saw a face about half way up the wall. Did you notice that? I even rewound the movie to see it again and sure enough there it was again.

Stranger, (Acts 6:14-15)
Hi Stranger,

No, I didn't notice that, I'll have to check it out. I lived there for a while after communism collapsed and have been in housing blocks such as this one. During the communist era, they had apartments or rooms assigned to them with X square metres (2 or 3 from memory) per person. After the collapse of communism, the persons assigned a room or apartment were considered its owners. Anyway, I won't go on, it is their story and best left to those who experienced it.

The movie shows just one side of what the system produced. It came to be loaded down with an overlarge bureaucracy and a multitude of laws many of which contradicted one another, so people bribed officials to simply get on with their lives. Once a corruption becomes endemic in a culture it is nigh impossible to root out and eliminate. The movie pictures the situation during Putin's era and that is why the perpetrators are terrified of the consequences of what would happen if they were found out. There are many horror stories of that era. But what is not portrayed in this movie is the side of the Russian character that is very endearing and refreshing, which an ex-pat appreciates once they get over themselves. Like the plumber in the movie, given half an opportunity, they are extremely hard-working, intensely loyal and stick to their resolve no matter what. It is this side of the Russian character that Putin taps into and encourages and it is the reason for his popularity. The other thing that surprised me was that despite some eighty years of atheistic rule Russians, young and old, still believe in God.

Which brings us back to the religious element in the proposed rule of the 8th beast (Rev 17:11,12,13,16,17). Although neoliberalism has done a better job than atheism in expunging God from the human psyche, godless communism simply doesn't work, so religion must play its part in the proposed Great Reset; see, ( here - post 224)

Jews have been and still are just as much a victim of the harlot's machinations as the gentile. The reason anti-Semitism exists is quite simple; the measure for measure principle is immutable ... Stop judging that you may not be judged, for with what judgment you are judging you will be judged and with the measure you are measuring they will measure out to you... Mt 7:1,2

To understand how the contravention of this fundamental principle results in anti-Semitism, listen what the narrator says at 1:53 and 3:20 in the following video.

And listen here in this video at 2:14 and feel and see the ‘measure for measure’ principle at work in yourself as you watch this video.

Which is what this Rabbi confirms in this video:
Zionists have hijacked the Jewish religion


The measure for measure principle is always at work, even if one only thinks of themselves as being better than another it inevitably has a reciprocal effect on the one whom one is judging as inferior.
This last video is Part 1 of the Zionist Story



Not all Jews are Zionists, but Jews and non-Jews alike need to clear out the old mindset and replace it with a new mindset.
... And it must occur in the final part of the days that the mountain of the house of YHWH will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will be lifted up above the hills and to it peoples must stream... And many nations/Goyim will certainly say: “Come you people, and let us go up to the mountain of YHWH and to the house of the God of Jacob and he will instruct us about his ways and we will walk in his paths.” For out of Zion, Law will go forth and the word of YHWH out of Jerusalem... (Mic 4:1-3).

From God’s standpoint modern Zionist Israel does not fit the bill.

Woe to those scheming what is harmful, and those practising what is bad upon their beds! ... they have desired fields and seized them; also houses and have taken them; and they have defrauded the able-bodied man and his household, a man and his hereditary possession. therefore this is what YHWH has said, 'Here I am thinking up against this clan a calamity...Mic 2:1,2 ...Here I am making Jerusalem a bowl causing reeling to all the peoples round about; and also against Judah he will come to be in siege, [even} against Jerusalem... it must occur in that day [that] I shall make Jerusalem a burdensome stone to all the peoples. All those lifting it will have to get severe scratches for themselves, and against her, all the nations of the earth will certainly be gathered... two parts in it are what will be cut off [and] expire, and as for the third part, it will be left remaining in it. And I shall certainly bring the third part through the fire, and I shall actually refine them as in the refining of silver, and examine them as in examining gold. It for its part will call upon my name, and I, for my part will answer it. I will say, 'it is my people, and it in its turn will say, YHWH is my God... (Zec 12:2,3; 13:8)
LRW~

AmosAu3
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Re: Revelation

#234 Post by AmosAu3 » 2 months ago

Hi CI,

Thanks for continuing this topic as you have been doing.

I believe that it is very timely for you to expose what you have been doing. Most of this has been going on in the shadows for a very long time, at least 2000 years.

Regards, Amos.

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#235 Post by coccus ilicis » 2 months ago

Chapter 19

After the vision that exposed the harlot's dealings on earth in the time of the end, John is shown a heavenly scene and hears what is as the voice of a great crowd
...After these things, I hear what is as a loud voice of a great crowd in heaven. Crying out Hallelujah/ praise Yah, you people! The salvation and glory and power belong to our God, because his judgements are true and righteous, for he has executed judgement on the harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication, and he has avenged the blood of his slaves at her hand... And right away for the second time, they say: ... Praise Yah you people! And the smoke of her goes ascending forever and ever ...(Rev 19:1-4).

This is not a reference to the same great crowd as at Rev 7:9, 14, where John sees a literal great crowd out of all nations, tribes, peoples and tongues that come out of the great tribulation. No, what John sees and hears in heaven at the time of the harlot's demise, only sounds like that of the voice of a great crowd, a great heavenly throng that says "Salvation and power belong to our God... for he has executed judgement on the harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication and he has avenged the blood of his slaves at her hand. Whereas the literal great crowd of Rev 7:9, 14, know nothing about the harlot nor about her demise that occurred prior to the tribulation, which they themselves survive; that heavenly throng not only witnessed her progress but also were persecuted by her, (Dan 12:7). These ones are figuratively called up to heaven and recieve their bright fine linen garment at that time, (Rev 11:12).

So who or what is this sound like that of a great crowd that John hears after the harlot's demise? As Amos said in post #234 the harlot's activities have been going on in the shadows of Governments for centuries.
She was conceived in the wilderness (De 31:25,27,29; 32:18,31,32). And she started prostituting herself in Babylon, and at Dan 8:9,23 she is pictured as the little horn that emerged from the Greco/Egyptian Ptolemaic kingdom. Ezekiel refers to her as a domineering prostitute (Ezk. 16:3-62). And Jesus refers to the same clan (Mt 23:33-39). So the crowd-like sound that John hears at the time of the Harlot's death, is the sound of all those souls who have been slaughtered by her, because of the word of God and the witness work they used to have, (see post #7). The same ones that had cried out with a loud voice How long ...are you refraining from avenging our blood from those who dwell on the earth... (Rev 6:9,10).

When the harlot is destroyed they say, quoting Ps 104:35, ...Hallelujah /Praise Yah you people! ...For he has executed judgement upon the great harlot who corrupted the earth with her fornication, and he has avenged the blood of his slaves at her hand (Rev 19:2). And they repeat the same refrain, saying ...Praise Yah! you people (Rev 19:3). The interlinear and most English translations omit you people. But in the Hebrew text of Ps 104:35 it is quite clear that the verb Praise, (see link: is an imperative command to others).

The crowd-like sound John hears addresses people on the earth, and it embodies the same message as that of the messenger flying in mid-heaven, who says in a loud voice: Fear God! and give him glory, for the hour of judgement by him has arrived, and so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and sea and fountains of waters... Followed by a second messenger that says: "She has fallen! Babylon the Great has fallen, she who made the earth drink the wine of the anger of her fornication...(Rev 14:7,8)

The messenger, representing the heavenly crowd calls out from mid-heaven, heaven in earth's vicinity (cf. Rev 19:17), i.e. cyberspace, and it is repeated by those of their number (Rev 6:11) still on earth at the time of the harlot's demise. They, together with their heavenly brothers, sing the New Song and the Song of Moses and of the Lamb (Rev 14:3,8; 15:3), which only they can master. But their message to the people of all nations, tribes, and tongues is easy to understand and can be mastered by any who heed it. ...Fear God! and give him glory because the hour of judgement by him has arrived.

When that happens ...The twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fall down and worship God who is seated on the throne, saying: “Amen, Praise Yah you people... Also a voice issues forth from the throne saying: “Be praising our God all you slaves who fear him, the small and the great... And I heard what was as a voice of a great crowd and a sound of many waters and as the sound of heavy thunders. They said; “Praise Yah, you people, because YHWH our God Sadday has begun to rule as king...(Rev 19:4-6) Sadday (see discussion at ( post 223)

That is indeed good news that the messenger flying mid heaven declares at that time, is it not?

Let us rejoice and be overjoyed, and let us give him glory because the marriage of the Lamb has arrived and his wife has prepared herself. Yes, it has been granted her to be arrayed in bright, clean fine linen, for the fine linen stands for the righteous acts of the holy, (set apart), ones.” (Rev 19:7,8 cf Rev 6:11) ... And he tells me: “Write: Happy are those invited to the evening meal of the Lamb’s marriage... (Rev 19:9, cf. Mt 22:2-13)

Also, he tells me: “These are the true sayings of God. At that John falls down at the messenger's feet to worship him, and he is told ... “Be careful! Do not do that! All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of bearing witness to Jesus.... Note the angelic messenger considers himself no different from God’s earthly messengers, this is yet another distinguishing feature between God's messengers and those of the harlot. ... Worship God; for the bearing witness to Jesus is what inspires prophesying.” (Rev 19:10 cf Rev 12:17)

Here is part 2 of modern day Zionism

LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#236 Post by coccus ilicis » 2 months ago

Chapter 19

Part 2

As pointed out in post #135 above the message at Rev 19:1-31 is directed at those of God's servants that have a heavenly calling, the ones Jesus called his brothers when he said to the sheep ...to the extent you did it to the least of these my brothers you did it to me and to the goats he said ..."Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did not do it to the least ones, you did not do it to me (Mt 25:40, 45) These least ones are the small and the great slaves addressed at Rev 19:5. And as also pointed out in the same post
When the harlot is destroyed they say, quoting Ps 104:35 ...Hallelujah /Praise Yah you people!
By saying this, they distinguish themselves from the harlot's slaves who cry out Lord! Lord! (Mt 7:22; 24:24), and who make no mention of God's name, nor would they if they were hard-pressed.

At Rev 19:1, God's slaves are said to cry out Alleluia, or do they instead say praise Yah, (see link: Psalm 135:1). One might think it is not important since Alleluia is a combination of the two Hebrew words, praise and Yah. But when were these two words merged, when was alleluia introduced and why?

Image
Greek Apostolic Polyglot (highlight, arrows, text etc. added)

'Alleluia' is a transliteration of the merged words praise Yah
Image
Biblehub Inerlinear Ps 135:1 (highlight, arrows, text etc. added)

Note if one replaces LORD for YHWH the meaning of alleluia is lost to the reader and most already believe that alleluia means praise the Lord. The recent directive from the Vatican seeks to expunge God’s name completely from human memory.
The Hebrew name for God is not to be used or pronounced in liturgical celebrations, songs and prayers ... said in a letter addressed to the bishops’ conferences of the world... Regarding translations in the liturgical context, the letter instructs, “Adonai” is to be translated in English as “Lord” and the Tetragrammaton YHWH is to be translated as “God...That name is commonly pronounced as "Yahweh," though other versions include "Jaweh" and "Yehovah." Vatican Says No 'Yahweh' In Songs, Prayers At Catholic Masses. Most believe Alleluiah means Praise the Lord anyway, but it may yet also be removed from updated Bible editions, songs and hymns. Vatican Says No 'Yahweh' In Songs. So why do they think it this is so important. Their reason for this directive is: But such pronunciation violates long-standing Jewish tradition...
Jesus had told the Pharisees and scribes ...you have made the word of God invalid by your tradition (Mt 15:6). But why is the use of God’s name ,YHWH, important?

Jesus was called the word of God because as he himself said, ...I have come as a light into the world, that anyone believing in me may not remain in darkness. But if anyone hears my sayings and does not keep them, I do not judge him... He that disregards me and does not receive my sayings has one to judge him, The word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day; because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to say and what to speak. Also, I know this commandment means everlasting life...(Jhn 12: 46-50). He also said in his last public prayer to his father, YHWH ...I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world...I have made your name known to them, and will make it known ...( John 17:6,26). Knowing he was God's spokesman, and that God's commands meant everlasting life, Jesus at all times chose his words with care, so as not to become ensnared by the adversary; see Mt 4:3-10, also post #97 & #100 and post 17, here)

And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshipped God seated upon the throne and said: “Amen! Praise Yah you people!”...Also, a voice issued forth from the throne and said: Be praising our God all you, his slaves who fear him, the small and the great... And I saw the heaven opened, and, look! a white horse and the one seated upon it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. His eyes are a fiery flame, and upon his head are many diadems/crowns. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, and he is arrayed with an outer garment sprinkled with blood, and the name he is called is the Word of God'. Also the armies of the heavens were following him on white horses and they were clothed in clean fine linen. And out of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword that he may strike the nations with it and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron...(Rev 19:4,5,11-15)

The sword that protrudes from the rider's mouth (Rev 19:15) symbolizes the Word of God, not the Bible but the actual sayings of YHWH and the ones Jesus (Yashua/YHWH saves) spoke in his father's name ... The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than a two-edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of soul and spirit and the joints and [their] marrow and is able to discern the thoughts and intentions of the heart (Heb 4:12).

The many crowns on the rider's head are the crowns of the army that follow him at the time of the harlot's demise. They are clothed in clean fine linen like those at the base of the altar (Rev 6:11) who like their exemplar, and together with him, use that sword to shepherd the nations with an iron rod (cf Rev 11:5,6,11,15,17). And like him, they have a name written that only they know.

And to the messenger of Pergamum write: These are the things that he says who has the sharp, long, two-edged sword. This refers to Jesus in the time of the end. I know that where you are dwelling, that is, where the throne of Satan is, and yet you are holding fast to my name (Jesus = Yashua/YHWH saves). This place where the throne of Satan is in the arena of Bible translation and publication. Jesus is addressing those responsible for the task. They have several false beliefs that put a stumbling block before the sons of Israel of which they need to become aware and repent... If you do not, I am coming quickly. He comes just before the harlot's destruction (Rev 17:14) and I will war with them with the long sword of my mouth (Rev 2:12,13,16, cf. Rev 19:15). And he adds, Let the one who has an ear hear what the Spirit says to the congregations. Note, that the word congregations is plural, so it is directed at all those that use the Bible as the basis for their belief. To him that conquers I will give him some of the hidden manna, and I will give him a white pebble, and upon the pebble a new name is written, which no one knows but the one receiving it.' (Rev 2:12-17).

Like their exemplar, those conquering are given a new name, that no-one else knows, which is reminiscent of the messenger that battled all night with Jacob and refused to tell him his name (Gen 32:29). He, like the rider of the white horse and like the hearing ones of Pergamon are given new names that no one knows but the one receiving it. And all like Jesus, who said in prayer to his father ... I have made your name manifest to the men you gave me out of the world...When I was with them, I used to watch over them on account of your name which you have given me... And I have made your name known to them and will make it known (Jhn 17:6, 26), they keep declaring God's name regardless of any pressure to the contrary, as they, together with the king of kings, strike the nations with the long sword that protrudes out of his mouth.

LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#237 Post by coccus ilicis » 2 months ago

Chapter 19

Part 3
Also the armies of the heavens were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in clean fine linen... And out of his mouth there protrudes a sharp long sword that he may strike the nations with it and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron...(Rev 19:14,15)
Rev 19:17-19 ...I saw also a messenger standing in the sun, (cf Mt 13:43) and he cried out with a loud voice, and said to all the birds, scavengers, that fly in midheaven, in the vicinity of the earth, "Come here, be gathered together to the great evening meal of God, (cf. Mt 24:24,28), that you may eat the fleshy parts of kings and the fleshy parts of military commanders and the fleshy parts of strong men and the fleshy parts of horses and those seated upon them, and the fleshy parts of freemen as well as of slaves and of small ones and great. And I saw the beast (see The 8th beast see post #155& #156 here, and post #164 here, and post 175 & #179 here also post #181 & #185 here)
... And the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war with the one seated on the horse and with his army, as at Rev 17:14. Although the outcome is assured, it is yet to be seen who the combatants on the ground turn out to be.

And the beast was caught along with the false prophet ...that performed in front of it the signs with which it misled those who received the mark of the beast and those who render worship to its image... (cf Rev 13:11-17; see false prophet, post #126 & #127 here)
...While still alive they were both hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulphur, (cf. Rev 20:10)

The harlot together with the false prophet triumphed in 1948, when due to her efforts the slaughtered-to-death beast head of Rev 13:3, which was killed 77CE, was no longer part of the 7-headed prophetic beast, ( as at Rev 17:10), was revived and came to be a nation-state of Israel, (Rev 17:8,11), at the time when a large junk of Palestine was granted to Israel by a vote in the U.N. This slaughtered-to-death, healed head then took its place among the seven-headed, 10 horned, democratic beast of Rev 13:3,11,13,14 (cf Dan 7:7,8). Ever since then, it has grown stronger, and with the waning of the 7th beast head’s power - the Anglo American juggernaut that has ruled the roost in the U.N. Security Council since WW2 – seeks to take its place and become the 8th beast head.

The false prophet has been the harlot’s chief paramour, see link: U.S.-Israel Relations: American Presidents & Israel and the link Donald Trump on that site.
...On December 6, 2017, President Trump announced the official U.S. recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital, and the beginning of the process of moving the U.S. embassy in Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem... Every other member of the United Nations Security Council voted in favor of a draft resolution reversing Trump’s decision two weeks later on December 18, but the resolution was vetoed by the United States. The General Assembly subsequently voted overwhelmingly on December 19, 2017, for a resolution implicitly calling on the U.S. to withdraw its recognition of Jerusalem... ...Jerusalem is not just the heart of three great religions, but it is now also the heart of one of the most successful democracies in the world.  Over the past seven decades, the Israeli people have built a country where Jews, Muslims, and Christians, and people of all faiths are free to live and worship according to their conscience and according to their beliefs... Therefore it will be interesting to see what this election will bring. Will it continue with the same policy concerning Israel and Iran? How will the combatants align themselves on the world stage?

Whatever the case the 7th beast head in the guise of the Anglo/American power structure is about to come to its end (cf. Dan 11:45) and is to be replaced by the 8th beast head, with its capital in Jerusalem. And it is during its reign ... just as the weeds are collected and burned with fire, so it will be in the conclusion of the system of things. The son of man will send forth angels and they will collect out from his kingdom all things that cause stumbling and persons who a doing lawlessness... At that time the righteous ones will shine forth as brightly as the sun (Mt 13:40-43)

LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#238 Post by coccus ilicis » 2 months ago

Chapter 19

Part 4

And the wild beast ... and the false prophet ... while still alive ...they were both hurled into the lake of fire that burns with sulphur,(for fire and sulphur see post 10 here). But the rest, were killed off with the long sword of the one seated on the horse, which [sword] proceeded from his mouth and all the birds were filled with the fleshy parts of them (Rev 19:21).

In connection with the long sword that protrudes from the rider's mouth (Rev 19:15), I quoted Rev 2:12,13,16, in post 236 above, and quoted Rev 2:17
Let the one who has an ear hear what the Spirit says to the congregations . Note, that the word congregations is plural, so it is directed at all those that use the Bible as the basis for their belief.
Although the letters were initially addressed to individual existing congregations that had issues that needed to be dealt with - issues that would continue to fester and grow until the Lord's day (Rev 1:10). Each letter ends with the homily ...let him that has an ear hear what the spirit says to the congregations(Rev 2:7,11,17,29; 3:6,13,22). Congregations is plural, indicating that the issues of that congregation would evolve, proliferate and be believed in many congregations by that day the day when Jesus would come to judge humankind (Mt 7:22), rather than being overjoyed they beat themselves in lamentation (Mt 24:30,50,51), see ( strike, smite, #2875)

The issues concerning changes to God's words began to bear fruit after the Jews had been repatriated, see post 218 & 219 here. Jesus condemned what they had done, quoting Isaiah he said ..."This people honours me with their lips, yet their heart is far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, because they teach the commands of men as doctrines"... (Mt 15:7-9). He had also forbidden his disciples from calling him the Christ (Mt 16:20) and always referred to himself as the son of man, but they were expecting the Messiah and that expectation was deeply embedded and resurfaced shortly after his death, see post 100, here and post 17, here. Not until the events described at Rev 6:2 is the rider of the white horse given a garland, see stephanos, #4734, that which surrounds a crown, and it is not until the events of Rev 19:12-16 that he is pictured wearing crowns, see diadem, #1238, crown.

Not only did the early church overstep his strict instructions by prematurely calling him Christ/Messiah/King, but they compounded the issue, by adopting the title Christians for themselves. In the time of Paul, Kione Greek was still a spoken language so they would not have misunderstood what he had written in his letter to the Romans, see post 93, here, with regard to their prospect of receiving an adoption as sons. But even at that time, some were already wrongly assuming this had already occurred, and he reprimanded the Corinthians saying, ...You men already have your fill, do you? You are rich already, are you? You have already begun ruling as kings without us, have you?...(1Cor 4:8). This lawlessness had already taken hold. Paul calls him the man of lawlessness, saying, ...He is set in opposition and lifts himself up over everyone that is called "god" or an object of reverence so that he sits down in the temple of God publicly showing himself to be a god ... true the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work (2Thess 2:4-7; cf Mt 7:23). By the time the early church father addressed his adult congregation as ... little children... (1Jhn 2:18) they had forgotten what Jesus had said about this. ...But do not be called Rabbi, for one is your teacher, whereas you are all brothers. ...Moreover, do not call anyone your father on earth, for one is your father the heavenly one. Neither be called leaders/instructors for your instructor is the Christ/ Messiah (Mt23:8,9), see post 97, here and post 103,here.

The instruction would be given by Christ, once individuals had woken up and started cleansing and whitening themselves, like lightning, lightening up the sky from east to west. (Mt 24:27; Dan 12:9,10). After the two witnesses had done their work in sackcloth and ashes, signifying their repentance just before the blowing of the seventh trumpet, at the time when the sacred secret of God according to the good news which he declared to his slaves and prophets is brought to a finish, and they stand on there feet and are told to "Come on up here is when the Christ/Messiah instructs them (Rev 10:7, 11; 11:3,11,12; cf Dan 7:13,14,27). This is the time when a loud voice from heaven says: "The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ/Messiah and he will rule [as king] forever and ever...(Rev 11:15).

Jesus had known what would happen (Mt 13:24,25,37,38), he had said ... We must work the works of him that sent me while it is day; the night is coming when no man can work... as long as I am in the world, I am the world's light...(Jhn 9:4,5) and after telling his disciples he would die, he said "The light will be among you a little while longer. Walk while you have the light so that the darkness does not overpower you ... he that walks in the darkness does not know where he is going...(Jhn12:35) That is what happened to the early church, they lost their direction. Jesus had commissioned them to make disciples, taught ones, of people of all the nations ... teaching them to observe all the things he had taught them... (Mt 28:20; cf Jhn 12:49). But what he had taught was soon forgotten when they started teaching the commands of the early church fathers as doctrines. At that time, late in the first century, Jesus gave a revelation to John, which took the form of a series of visions presented in symbols that would not be understood until those events took place on earth. That time is now. Unable to make sense of this revelation, the early church, for the most part, ignored it until the Lord's day, at which time those that love Jesus and observe his commandments, will be shown the way when the spirit of truth teaches them ...all things and brings back to their minds all the things he had taught them (Jhn 14:3,4,16,17,26).

These are some of the issues that the letters to the seven congregations address. By the time of the end, these doctrines are so deeply embedded that when the two witnesses are killed those actively serving at the altar cheer...and enjoy themselves ... because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth... (Rev 10:11; 11:1,7,8,10). However, unless they repent their joy will be short-lived and will turn into a lament when they are judged and receive the stroke of the long sword that proceeds out of the rider's mouth (Rev 19:21, cf. Mt 24:48,49,50,51; 25:43,44,45). Of them Jesus had said ...He that disregards me and does not receive my sayings has one to judge him. The word that I have spoken is what will judge him in the last day...(Jhn12:48)
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#239 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Chapter 20
Part 1

And I saw an angel coming down from heaven with a great chain in his hand and with the key of the abyss. And he seized the dragon the ancient/original serpent, who is the Devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. And he hurled him into the abyss and shut and sealed it over him that he might not mislead the nations any more until the thousand years were ended. After these things he will be let loose for a little while... (Rev 20:1-3)

These events are still future, but since the concept of entities such as the serpent, the dragon, abyss etc. have come to us through the filter of religious tradition, it is necessary to ascertain when, where and how these terms were first used in the Bible to establish their meaning. John was most probably given the revelation in his native language, Hebrew/Aramaic. However, the existing manuscript is Greek, and since the earliest manuscripts of the OT are Hebrew/Aramaic, it is necessary to check where each word occurs in the Septuagint (LXX) and compare it with the Hebrew of the same verse to determine its meaning.

The first occurrence of the Heb. word for serpent as used at Rev 12:9; 20:2
is at Gen 3:1

Serpent
Image
(highlights, arrows and text mine) Biblehub Interlinears - for the Greek, at the same site, click on Apostolic Polyglot in the menu that drops down under the right-hand header, Language.

As can be seen, the earliest use of the Hebrew word rendered Serpent is נָחָשׁ 5175. nachash, which comes from the verb נָחַשׁ 5172. nachash - to practice divination, observe signs as used at Gen 30:27. Divination appears to have been a common practice in the period covered by Genesis. For instance, Joseph instructed his overseer to find the golden cup that had been hidden in his brother's saddlebags and say to him ...Is not this the thing that my master drinks from, and by means of which he practices divination ( נָחָשׁ 5172. nachash). And when the brothers were brought before Joseph, he said to them: ... “What sort of deed is this that you have done? Did you not know that such a man as I am, practises divination ( נָחָשׁ 5172 Gen 44:5,15). One gets the impression that Joseph was known as a practitioner of divination. In other words, he was a נָחָשׁ nachash. Which in itself raises a number of questions.

So the nachash that appeared to Adam and Eve was clearly something unearthly/extraterrestrial that had a knowledge of things that they could not know. ... The nachash was the most shrewd (as at Prov 12:23) of all the living things (living entities) of the field (see sadday/field post 223, here) that God had made... (Gen 3:1)

And it is also clear that men continued to practice divination using different rituals to invoke the nachash. But the Law that YHWH gave Israel condemned and outlawed the practice (Lev 19:26). Moses said ...There should not be found in you anyone who makes his son or daughter pass through fire , ( #784 supernatural fire as at Gen 15:17) who employs witchcraft, (as at Jos 13:22; 1Sam 6:2), a soothsayer (as at Gen 9:14,16; Ex 13:21 cloud & at Jdg 9:37) or anyone who looks for omens, (נָחַשׁ 5172 nachash ) (check Biblehub Interlinear De 18:10).

At that time the only legitimate avenue for having questions answered was by means of the stones that were in the sacred pouch of judgment (see, #2833. choshen = breastpiece, sacred pouch). Although pictured as a breast plate Ex 28:15.
Image (arrows and text mine)
It was most likely a pouch (Ex 28:9-28) as at Lev 8:8 it says: Next he placed the sacred pouch/breast-piece on him and put in the breast piece / pouch the Urim and the Thummin. When the stones were drawn out, or cast, the high priest would then interpret the message. To avoid misuse Moses said to Levi, concerning this practice, ... Let your Thummim and your Urim belong to the man loyal to you, whom you put to the test at Massah, you began to contend with him by the waters of Merribah , a reference to himself, ...The man who said to his father and mother, ' I do not see him, even his brothers he does not acknowledge and he sons he does not know...( De 33:8,9). So they were to make sure the whoever served as high priest was worthy to practice divination. For the Jews this direct contact with YHWH ceased when the ephod and its sacred pouch disappeared, but divination continues to be used to this day.

Dragon
Ex 7:9 Image
As can be seen, the Greek is dragon, #1404, but the Apostolic Polyglot renders it serpent. And though the Heb. is tannin, #8574, it also renders it serpent. If one checks out the listed sciptures in the right-hand column at this link, 8577. tannin = dragon, sea monster, one can see how, even as with nachash, traditional teaching has influenced the translation of the term. Tannin is first used at Gen 1:21 ...So Gods proceeded to create great sea dragons/monsters (8577 tannin) and every living soul that moves about, with which the waters teemed, according to their kind... (check Biblehumb interlinear, Gen 1:21)

From the above one can determine that the terms nachash/Serpent and tannin/dragon refer to entirely different entities, one is unearthly the other is earthly, with the earthly dragon being created before man, and the serpent/nachash making its debut on the earth in the Garden of Eden. So what is the connection between the two?
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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#240 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Chapter 20

Part 1b
From the above one can determine that the terms nachash/Serpent and tannin/dragon refer to entirely different entities, one is unearthly the other is earthly, with the earthly dragon being created before man, and the serpent/nachash making its debut on the earth in the Garden of Eden. So what is the connection between the two?
As pointed out in post 239 above the first use of the Heb. word translated dragon, is at Gen 1:21 ...So God created the great creatures of the sea (rendered dragons, sea monsters,etc) (Gen 1:21 NIV). So the dragon was most likely a prehistoric crocodile of some kind.

Image

...Of the many species on earth today that can trace their ancestry back to prehistoric times, evolution has touched crocodiles perhaps least...What distinguished the first crocodiles from the first dinosaurs was the shape and musculature of their jaws, which tended to be much more prominent and powerful... It was only during the late Cretaceous period of the Mesozoic Era that crocodiles evolved the distinguishing traits they still have today: stubby legs, armored scales, and a preference for marine habitats... .

In Egypt Aaron's rod most probably turned into the much-feared man-eater of the Nile, a freshwater crocodile. At that time ...Pharaoh also called his wise men and the sorcerers, and the magic practising priests of Egypt ...so they threw down their rods and they became dragons/crocodiles (Ex 7:11,12). Moses refers to this tannin (8577) crocodile at De 32:33. ...Their wine is the venom of serpents, the deadly poison of cobras... (NIV).

Hold on, slow down a bit, there is no mention of a crocodile/tannin here. Let’s see what the interlinear has to say.

Reading from right to left.
Image (highlights, arrows, text, and strike-through mine)

So a native Hebrew language speaker would have read ... The fury of the dragons is their wine, and the head of cruel venomous snakes...

To understand why this verse appears to have been deliberately mistranslated, one needs to read it in context. At De 31:25-29, Moses had castigated a branch of the Levitical priesthood for rebelliousness, saying ...For I well know that after my death you will without fail act ruinously... and calamity will befall you at the close of the days. What they had done was to substitute Israel’s Rock/Tsur (De 32:4) for another Rock/Tsur, which was later called by its Greek name, Tyre. Moses said to them The Rock/Tsur who fathered you, you proceeded to forget... He told Israel ...Their Rock/Tsur is not like our Rock/Tsur...(De 32:4, 17, 18,31). See post 156, here. The gods of the Rock/Tsur/Tyre extolled the accumulation of wealth, and the power to control. Read Ezekiel chapters 27 & 28, and note that chapter 28 is addressed to the prince/ruler of Tyre (Ezk 28:2).

Judaic maritime history begins with the association of the Judahites with the Kinanu, as the so-dubbed "Phoenicians" called themselves. One of many evidences of Judahite exports with the sea-faring Canaanites of Tyre and Sidon is the appearance of the Judahite royal stamp lmlk ("of the king") on the handles of wine jars in Canaanite cargos and in stock in Carthage... see also Traders in the Mishnah on the same site
Other Mishnaic narratives bear directly on the involvement of Jews in international trade. The great halachic sage, Rabbi Chiyya bar Abba, is among those mentioned in the Mishnah who are involved in shipping merchandise to and from the East. R'Chiyya is stated to have dealt specifically with products made of glass, silk, and flax, the three basic goods of East-West trade. It is related that he travelled widely in trading in these indicative products... R'Chiyya had followed his mentor, the great Rabbi Judah Ha-Nasi ("the Prince," 135-219 C.E.) (cf Ezk 28:2) into Palestine from Babylonia. It was a traumatic time. The suppression of the Jews after the crushing of the second Jewish revolt and the destruction of the center of Judaic national culture in Jerusalem created a hiatus that Rabbi Ha-Nasi filled. He became the principal architect of the Mishnah. The Canaanites and the Jews (bold mine)

Members of the tribe of Levi were responsible for all things pertaining to the priestly office (De 31:25,26), including the copying and preservation of scripture. Constrained to copy what was written and not agreeing with what Moses had said about them, they replaced it with an oral tradition, the one espoused by the Scribes and Pharisees. And little by little the import of Moses's words were marginalized and obscured. When the Bible was translated into common languages the KJV translation set the benchmark for lexicographers and all English translations. For the KJV usage of the word poison, Strong's 2543 at De 32:33, see Blueletter Bible Lexicon, Strong's 2543. Out of 124 places where this word occurs in scripture, it is rendered poison in only six verses.

And at the Biblehub interlinear Deut. 32:33 site open the link of Strong’s number above the indicated words. For Strong’s 7219 rosh, definition venom, one must dig a little deeper. Scroll down the left-hand column to the heading, Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, see HEBREW rosh, and click on that link, which takes one to #7218 rosh, definition ‘head’. Both 7219 and 7218 are the same Hebrew word. The right-hand column of the 7218 site shows that rosh has been translated head or similar, in a total of 599 verses, including Gen 3:15 & Ezk 38:3.

The Hebrew/Aramaic native speaker would have understood what these words meant and to whom they applied. And so those that had replaced Israel’s Rock with the Rock, Tyre, had to tread with care. But by replacing the written Law with traditions that were later written down in the Mishnah and the Talmud. They were able to marginalize what Moses had said and in time remove it from memory. For Christians, the Latin translation and later the King James finished the job of obfuscation.

So what is the nachash and how does it work and produce an earthly crop of dragons ( e.g. Neh 2:13; Ezk 29:3)? Before examining its seed (Gen 3:15), one needs to understand how the nachash works.

YHWH has insight into the heart of man and so uses the nachash to draw out his innermost thoughts and desires. He knew Pharaoh’s nature and coached Moses in what he should say so that he would dig his heels in and become obstinate... As for me I shall let his heart become obstinate...(Ex 3:19; 4:21)

When the nachash spoke to Adam and Eve, she was deceived but Adam wasn't. Although the nachash addressed his remarks to Eve his target was Adam. What he said was something that Adam had already considered and had thought about, and that is why he didn't stop Eve from taking the fruit and eating it. And that is also why he blamed God when confronted with his disloyalty, saying: ... the woman you gave me, she gave me fruit from the tree and so I ate... (Gen 3:12).

God used the nachash to incite David to number Israel, it would have been something he had considered and dwelt on ... And again the anger of YHWH blazed against Israel when he incited David against them: saying "Go take a count of Israel and Judah. David had known what the law required when taking a census. And when God used the nachash to incite him, to go ahead, and even though Joab had tried to talk him out of it ... the king's word prevailed... with the result of seventy thousand dead in Israel (2 Sam 24:1-15).

God also used the nachash to draw Jesus out, offering him possibilities he had already considered (Mt 4:1-11). But Jesus who had only just forty days earlier at his Baptism, heard God acknowledge him as his son, did not fall into the trap and remained loyal to YHWH and his purpose.

But most of us fall short somewhere along the line, but it is not that which condemns us, rather it is how we act when confronted with our wrongdoing that shows our mettle. Compare Saul’s reaction to David's, at 1Sam15:30 and 2 Sam 24:10, 13,14. Does that make Saul a bad person, not suited to live in a world ruled by God’s anointed king? No, but at that time it made him unfit for the role of king.

So what am I implying with the above, that God uses the nachash, Satan/the adversary, to temp man and get him to do wrong, and as in the case of Job, to curse God (Job 1:6,11)? No, he uses the nachash to bring one's innermost thoughts and desires to the surface so that they can be dealt with. In Job’s case, what surfaced was his self-righteousness. He couldn’t make sense of what had happened to him and thus considered himself more righteous than God (Job 35:2). Once that was pointed out to him he was able to make a retraction and change his thinking and self-image.

When the mother of the sons of Zebedee approached Jesus concerning her sons, asking him to ..."Give the word that these my two sons may sit, one at your right hand and one at your left hand, in your kingdom" Jesus answered ...You men do not know what you are asking for... but this sitting down at my right hand or left hand belongs to those for whom it has been prepared by my father... (Mt 20: 20-23) Many may yet be selected for that purpose. ... I tell you many will come from eastern parts and western parts to recline at the table with Abraham and Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of the heavens, whereas the sons of the kingdom will be thrown out into the darkness outside. There is where the weeping and gnashing of their teeth will be... (Mt 8:8,9,10,11,12 cf. Mt 24:48-51). YHWH knows what qualities he requires for kings of his kingdom.

Like their heavenly father human sons and daughters of God, including Jesus, can see alternative paths of action and can be drawn out by their desires, which then become temptations. Jesus did not dwell on thoughts that came to him after God had acknowledged him as his son. He understood the process that leads to wrong actions. When he told the Jews ... “You heard that it was said ‘you must not commit adultery.’ But I say to you that everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart... he explained the process. (Mt 5:27,28).

So being able to see different courses of action is normal for man made in Gods image, he is free-willed and can weigh up the pros and cons of each action. But if he continues to dwell on it, even as David did, and all of us at one time or another have done, it becomes a forceful temptation. And that is why Jesus tells us to ask the Father not to lead us into temptation, but to deliver us from evil... with deliver being an imperative verb, we are asking him to do whatever it takes to stop us (Mt 6:13)

And, yes, the Bible has been tampered with, and YHWH has allowed it, but thanks to modern technology things that have been covered over are being uncovered. ...for there is nothing covered that will not be uncovered and secret that will not become known ... (Mt 10:26).

If what I have written here is confronting and makes inroads into what one believes, how does one react? Does one reject it out of hand or does one investigate it further, looking inside to see one's motivating spirit? How one reacts shows their mettle, it exposes the spirit that moves them, as was the case with James and John who were prepared to burn down a Samaritan village. Jesus had rebuked them saying, ..."you do not know of what spirit you are... see, Biblehub Interlinear, Lu 9:53-55. This rebuke has also been filtered out of most translations, omitted because it does not align with traditional 21st-century religious teaching which has tended to put the apostles on pedestals.

Remember, it is not about striving for perfection but rather about learning to walk, one step at a time, along the road that leads to life (Mt 7:14).
LRW~

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