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Re: Revelation

#301 Post by Bobcat » 5 days ago

Thank you for expressing your view about that CI.


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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#302 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 day ago

Chapter 20

Prelude to the thousand-year reign – Part 7,

Nebuchadnezzar’s dream tree

The watcher calls out ... Chop, [imperative], the tree down. Cut off its boughs, shake off, [imperative], its foliage, and scatter its fruitage. Let the beasts flee from under it, and the birds from its boughs, [cf. Dan 2:38], However leave [imperative], his stump and roots in the earth with a band of iron and copper/bronze, [Dan 2:32,33], among the grass of the field; and with the dew of the heaven let it be wet and with the beasts of the field let its portion be among the beasts of the earth. And let its heart be changed from that of mankind, and let the heart of a beast be given to it, and let seven times/periods of menstruation, [see post 30, here], pass over it. By the decree of the watchers, the thing is, and by the saying of the holy ones the request is, to the intent that those living may know that the higher [adj determinate] rules the kingdom of men. And to whom he wills he gives it, and he sets up over it even the lowliest one of mankind

In post 295, I posed the question, with reference to the appearance of fledgeling egalitarian movements that were in the main led by atheists, if their inspiration did not originate with Jesus, saying
from where did they get their impetus to fight the fine fight? Could it be that the seven times of Dan 4:16 had come to an end and like Nebuchadnezzar humankind was beginning to come to its senses?
Thank you Bobcat for bringing Dan 4:26 to my attention (see post 298), which reads: “ ‘And because they said to leave the rootstock of the tree, your kingdom to you shall be assured after you know heaven rules...Since humankind is yet to acknowledge that the creator Elohim rules, the last part of this prophecy has yet to be fulfilled and therefore precedes the foretold thousand-year rule (cf Rev 14:6,7). So what does this tree represent?

A lesson in arboriculture, Google: Arboriculture ... is the cultivation, management, and study of individual trees, shrubs, vines, and other perennial woody plants.

The primary function of roots in a tree’s digestive system is to store nutrients and water that it gets from the leaves and the ground, and in the event that all the leaves of the tree in question get removed, it may have enough food stored to keep the metabolization process going and regrow a sprout from the leftover stump region.... Wikipedea - Coppicing. Often, a deciduous tree that has been cut will re-sprout in multiple places around the edge of the stump or from the roots.


Since the rootstock of Nebuchadnezzar’s tree was left in the ground to ensure its regrowth, it is necessary to understand what the iron, copper/bronze band, that provided it with the heart of a beast represents.

Before the tree was chopped down mankind had ruled itself with the help of gods. Each kingdom had its gods which not only were consulted, but these gods actively guided kings via true and false prophets, i.e. see 1Ki 22:9,10,12,13,14,15,16,17, and compare 1Ki 22: 19, 20, 21, 22, 23). And with visions and dreams even as was the case with Daniel, and Nebuchadnezzar who came to realize that the god of the Hebrews was superior (Dan 2:47, 4:7,8,9), and he was called Jehovah’s servant at Jer 25:9.

The copper/bronze and iron is first mentioned at Dan 2:32,33,38)...And after you there will arise another kingdom inferior to you, [silver], and another kingdom, a third one of copper/bronze that will rule over the whole earth. As for the fourth it will prove to be strong like iron...(Dan2:39-40 ). Although individual empires ruled one after the other, i.e. Greece then Rome, after Jesus died Greek/Hellenistic precepts were incorporated into the Christian church and governed human rule until the Renaissance.

Once the tree was cut down the gods, whether they were from the Jehovah faction or those opposed, (Job 1:6;2:4), were no longer permitted to meddle in human affairs. From that time forward humankind would be guided by home-bred Greco-Roman philosophies. Plato's five regimes The philosopher Plato discusses five types of regimes ... The aristocratic state that Plato idealizes is composed of three caste-like parts: the ruling class made up of the aforementioned philosopher-kings (who are otherwise identified as having souls of gold); the auxiliaries of the ruling caste made up of soldiers (whose souls are made up of silver), and whose job in the state is to force on the majority the order established by the philosophers...and the majority of the people (souls of either bronze or iron)... In contrast to the first two classes who are allowed to own property and produce goods for themselves ...but are obliged to sustain their rulers... with their own activities, the majority of the people (souls of either bronze or iron),are forbidden from owning property[/u] in order to preclude that the policies they undertake be tainted by personal interests...(underline mine). Ancient Greek and Roman philosophy... The period after the death of Aristotle was characterized by the decay of the Greek city-states, which then became pawns in the power game of the Hellenistic kings who succeeded Alexander. Life became troubled and insecure. It was in this environment that two dogmatic philosophical systems came into being, Stoicism and Epicureanism, which promised to give their adherents something to hold onto and to make them independent of the external world...Hellenistic [Greek] and Roman philosophy. Stoicism; Epicureanism; Skepticism; Neo-Pythagoreanism and Neoplatonism; Medieval philosophy. The early Middle Ages. Augustine; Boethius; The Greek Fathers of the Church and Erigena; Anselm; Bernard de Clairvaux and Abelard; The transition to Scholasticism. Arabic thought; Jewish thought; The age of the Schoolmen... (added text mine)

This iron copper band appears to have been removed at the start of the period called the Renaissance, at that time tiny shoots started to appear on the stump.
Google: .. a particular period, notably between 1400 and 1600, there was a definite shift in culture, science and technology, and these helped to advance and change Europe. But it was not all smooth sailing from here on as these sprouting new shoots were hacked back.
Google: the Counter-Reformation by enforcing Catholic Orthodoxy meant that artists, thinkers and writers were afraid to be as daring or original as they had been in the past. These factors led to the end of the Renaissance. But it wasn't the end, it was just the beginning, see, posts 194 to 196, here. Despite opposition, saplings continue to shoot from the roots and grow. And those resisting change are now in a bit of a quandary, they want the greco-roman tiered system of governance to continue, but know that change is inevitable and must come. See Robert Hirsch's video and comment featured in post 225, here. And so they are working frantically to prepare the 8th beast for its rider, (Dan 7:8; Rev 17:11). See videos featured in post 224, here.

So we are not yet there, when people know/understand the heavens rule, (Dan 4:26). But by now many no longer believe in God and so a messenger flies in mid-heaven shouting out loud: "Fear God and give him glory because the hour of judgment by him has arrived, and so worship the one who made the heaven and the earth and fountains of waters... (Rev 14:7)

The eighth king will yet have his heyday but it will be short lived, (Dan 7:24,25,26; Rev 17:11,16,17).

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