Revelation

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Bobcat
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Re: Revelation

#301 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

Thank you for expressing your view about that CI.


Bobcat

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#302 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Chapter 20

Prelude to the thousand-year reign – Part 7,

Nebuchadnezzar’s dream tree

The watcher calls out ... Chop, [imperative], the tree down. Cut off its boughs, shake off, [imperative], its foliage, and scatter its fruitage. Let the beasts flee from under it, and the birds from its boughs, [cf. Dan 2:38], However leave [imperative], his stump and roots in the earth with a band of iron and copper/bronze, [Dan 2:32,33], among the grass of the field; and with the dew of the heaven let it be wet and with the beasts of the field let its portion be among the beasts of the earth. And let its heart be changed from that of mankind, and let the heart of a beast be given to it, and let seven times/periods of menstruation, [see post 30, here], pass over it. By the decree of the watchers, the thing is, and by the saying of the holy ones the request is, to the intent that those living may know that the higher [adj determinate] rules the kingdom of men. And to whom he wills he gives it, and he sets up over it even the lowliest one of mankind

In post 295, I posed the question, with reference to the appearance of fledgeling egalitarian movements that were in the main led by atheists, if their inspiration did not originate with Jesus, saying
from where did they get their impetus to fight the fine fight? Could it be that the seven times of Dan 4:16 had come to an end and like Nebuchadnezzar humankind was beginning to come to its senses?
Thank you Bobcat for bringing Dan 4:26 to my attention (see post 298), which reads: “ ‘And because they said to leave the rootstock of the tree, your kingdom to you shall be assured after you know heaven rules...Since humankind is yet to acknowledge that the creator Elohim rules, the last part of this prophecy has yet to be fulfilled and therefore precedes the foretold thousand-year rule (cf Rev 14:6,7). So what does this tree represent?

A lesson in arboriculture, Google: Arboriculture ... is the cultivation, management, and study of individual trees, shrubs, vines, and other perennial woody plants.

The primary function of roots in a tree’s digestive system is to store nutrients and water that it gets from the leaves and the ground, and in the event that all the leaves of the tree in question get removed, it may have enough food stored to keep the metabolization process going and regrow a sprout from the leftover stump region.... Wikipedea - Coppicing. Often, a deciduous tree that has been cut will re-sprout in multiple places around the edge of the stump or from the roots.

Image

Since the rootstock of Nebuchadnezzar’s tree was left in the ground to ensure its regrowth, it is necessary to understand what the iron, copper/bronze band, that provided it with the heart of a beast represents.

Before the tree was chopped down mankind had ruled itself with the help of gods. Each kingdom had its gods which not only were consulted, but these gods actively guided kings via true and false prophets, i.e. see 1Ki 22:9,10,12,13,14,15,16,17, and compare 1Ki 22: 19, 20, 21, 22, 23). And with visions and dreams even as was the case with Daniel, and Nebuchadnezzar who came to realize that the god of the Hebrews was superior (Dan 2:47, 4:7,8,9), and he was called Jehovah’s servant at Jer 25:9.

The copper/bronze and iron is first mentioned at Dan 2:32,33,38)...And after you there will arise another kingdom inferior to you, [silver], and another kingdom, a third one of copper/bronze that will rule over the whole earth. As for the fourth it will prove to be strong like iron...(Dan2:39-40 ). Although individual empires ruled one after the other, i.e. Greece then Rome, after Jesus died Greek/Hellenistic precepts were incorporated into the Christian church and governed human rule until the Renaissance.

Once the tree was cut down the gods, whether they were from the Jehovah faction or those opposed, (Job 1:6;2:4), were no longer permitted to meddle in human affairs. From that time forward humankind would be guided by home-bred Greco-Roman philosophies. Plato's five regimes The philosopher Plato discusses five types of regimes ... The aristocratic state that Plato idealizes is composed of three caste-like parts: the ruling class made up of the aforementioned philosopher-kings (who are otherwise identified as having souls of gold); the auxiliaries of the ruling caste made up of soldiers (whose souls are made up of silver), and whose job in the state is to force on the majority the order established by the philosophers...and the majority of the people (souls of either bronze or iron)... In contrast to the first two classes who are allowed to own property and produce goods for themselves ...but are obliged to sustain their rulers... with their own activities, the majority of the people (souls of either bronze or iron),are forbidden from owning property[/u] in order to preclude that the policies they undertake be tainted by personal interests...(underline mine). Ancient Greek and Roman philosophy... The period after the death of Aristotle was characterized by the decay of the Greek city-states, which then became pawns in the power game of the Hellenistic kings who succeeded Alexander. Life became troubled and insecure. It was in this environment that two dogmatic philosophical systems came into being, Stoicism and Epicureanism, which promised to give their adherents something to hold onto and to make them independent of the external world...Hellenistic [Greek] and Roman philosophy. Stoicism; Epicureanism; Skepticism; Neo-Pythagoreanism and Neoplatonism; Medieval philosophy. The early Middle Ages. Augustine; Boethius; The Greek Fathers of the Church and Erigena; Anselm; Bernard de Clairvaux and Abelard; The transition to Scholasticism. Arabic thought; Jewish thought; The age of the Schoolmen... (added text mine)

This iron copper band appears to have been removed at the start of the period called the Renaissance, at that time tiny shoots started to appear on the stump.
Google: .. a particular period, notably between 1400 and 1600, there was a definite shift in culture, science and technology, and these helped to advance and change Europe. But it was not all smooth sailing from here on as these sprouting new shoots were hacked back.
Google: the Counter-Reformation by enforcing Catholic Orthodoxy meant that artists, thinkers and writers were afraid to be as daring or original as they had been in the past. These factors led to the end of the Renaissance. But it wasn't the end, it was just the beginning, see, posts 194 to 196, here. Despite opposition, saplings continue to shoot from the roots and grow. And those resisting change are now in a bit of a quandary, they want the greco-roman tiered system of governance to continue, but know that change is inevitable and must come. See Robert Hirsch's video and comment featured in post 225, here. And so they are working frantically to prepare the 8th beast for its rider, (Dan 7:8; Rev 17:11). See videos featured in post 224, here.

So we are not yet there, when people know/understand the heavens rule, (Dan 4:26). But by now many no longer believe in God and so a messenger flies in mid-heaven shouting out loud: "Fear God and give him glory because the hour of judgment by him has arrived, and so worship the one who made the heaven and the earth and fountains of waters... (Rev 14:7)

The eighth king will yet have his heyday but it will be short lived, (Dan 7:24,25,26; Rev 17:11,16,17).
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#303 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Chapter 20

Prelude to the thousand-year reign – Part 7,

Nebuchadnezzar’s dream tree (2)

...and look a watcher even a holy one coming down from heaven. He was calling loudly saying Chop the tree down... Leave its rootstock itself in the earth... let its heart be changed from that of mankind, and let the heart of a beast be given it and let seven times pass over it, (Dan 4:14,15,16).

The Heb/Aramaic word for times in this verse is the same as the Heb/Aramaic word for times used in the phrase times, times and half a time at Dan 7:25 ...Dan 7: 25 reads ... and he will intend to change times, [2166 zimnin] and law and they will be given into his hand for a time, times and half a time, [5732 iddah]. The base meaning of this word is menstruation. If you want to check this for yourself and are unfamiliar with how to work the biblehub site, I explained how, in a reply to Marina, see the 7th paragraph in post 30, here

Hebrew 'menstruation,' rendered time is also found at Dan 2:8,9,21 when the king tells the magic-practising priest etc. I am aware that time/iddah/a period of menstruation is what you are trying to gain... It also occurs at Dan 3:5,15; 4:16, 23,25,32 and at Dan 7:12,25. In each case, it has a negative connotation. Strong’s Concordance says it corresponds to the Hebrew word ed, which only occurs once in the Bible, at Isa 64:6. This is a long term prophetic lament. It says in part in the NWT ... And from a time long ago none have heard, nor have given any ear, nor has eye itself seen an Elohim except you, that acts for one that keeps in expectation of him...And we become like someone unclean, all of us, and all our acts of righteousness are like rags for periods of menstruation , [iddah], we shall fade away like leafage, all of us, and our errors themselves will carry us away just like a wind. And there is not one calling upon your name, and no one rousing himself to lay hold of you; for you have concealed your face from us, and you cause us to melt by the power of our error ... Is that not an apt description of what has happened since the seven times began to pass over the stump, giving it the heart of a beast? Humanity had a brief period of illumination when Jesus was on earth before darkness descended once more, (Jhn 9:4,5).

When Nebuchadnezzar failed to give credit to Jehovah for what he had achieved at Jehovah's hand, (Jer 25:9; Dan 4:29,30), he was cut down and given the heart of a beast. This failing to give credit to Jehovah for what man accomplishes under Jehovah's hand is a common human failing. In this, he was no different from Moses who failed to give credit to Jehovah when he brought forth water from a crag (Nu 20:9,10), and David when, he like Nebuchadnezzar had looked at what he had achieved, taking a census (2Sam 24:1,4,10). In each case, they received recompense for their failure to give credit to Jehovah. And in each case, the balance of perfect justice (De 32:4) the measure for measure principle applied, (De 19:21).

Centuries ago, the iron, bronze band was removed from the stump, and saplings with a heart of humankind have sprouted ever since, even among those at the top of the food chain, the ones responsible for keeping the money-go-round turning and the supply chains open. They have seen the results of past practices, and they know without a doubt that they must change their way in which they have thus far sought to govern humankind if it is to survive. And so have drawn up plans, which are currently being trialled in different places,i.e. Otaki Solar Farm, a renewable energy project by Energise

The Great Reset

There is an urgent need for global stakeholders to cooperate in simultaneously managing the direct consequences of the COVID-19 crisis. To improve the state of the world, the World Economic Forum is starting The Great Reset. The World Economic Forum is the International Organization for Public-Private Cooperation. The Forum engages the foremost political, business, cultural and other leaders of society to shape global, regional and industry agendas. We believe that progress happens by bringing together people from all walks of life who have the drive and the influence to make positive change https://flipboard.com/@WEF I own nothing, have no privacy and life has never been better

But not all welcome the planned change in the way the world is governed.
The Great Reset is 'crazy, kooky stuff' which aims for 'no private property by 2030'


Each person in the above video acknowledges that we must change if humankind is to survive on the earth, but many are with good reason distrustful of those initiating the change. What is missing from the proposal is a leadership that we can trust. In his prophetic lament, Isaiah understood this to be the creator of heavens and earth, saying .. there is not one calling upon your name (Isa 64:7).

What difference does a name make?

Israel and the house of Jacob had called on God's name, יְהוָ֞ה for generations, but ended up refusing to pronounce the name, and substituted it with the titles Lord and God. So, there must be something more to the name we have missed. God's name, in Hebrew, is YHWH, which is transliterated as Yehovah but is commonly pronounced Jehovah (see Why is the name of God Adonai here). When God gave Moses his name, he said you should say to the sons of Israel, [ 'אֶֽהְיֶ֣ה ], I shall prove to be', [or 'I will come to be.' as at Ex 3:12], has sent me to you ...This is what you are to say to the sons of Israel,[ יְהוָ֞ה He comes to be ], Yehovah the Gods of your fathers has sent me to you, this is my name to time indefinite...(Ex 3:14,15). So the epithet 'Jehovah God' literally means 'He comes to be God.' The answer to the question hides within the meaning of the name. How so?

In many ways beasts, animals, are like humans


From the time the stump of Nebuchadnezzar’s tree was banded, the heart of a beast governed human behaviour. Once the constricting band was removed and saplings sprouted beating with the heart of mankind, they began to use their God-given ability to think and reason, asking questions and looking for answers ...In that hour, the disciples came near to Jesus and said: “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of the heavens? So calling a young child to him he set it in their midst and said: “Truly I say to you, Unless you turn around and become as young children, you will by no means enter into the kingdom of the heavens (Mt 18:1,2,3). Initially, they asked about the world and things around them, enquiring about the structure of inanimate things and where life originated. And like young children, they drew wrong conclusions, i.e. humankind evolved from animals, which is just another form of self-aggrandisement. But as they grew to maturity, they started to look closer to home for answers to the real issue that is at the root of all problems of this world, namely themselves. Asking questions like, 'What makes us differ from one another? Why do we fight and kill one another?

Since the epithet Yehoshua/Jehovah God means, ‘He comes to be God.’ As those growing to maturity clean up their act and seek his direction and guidance, at that time, ‘He comes to be God.’ And by doing this, they sanctify his name. And his rule, and his will, will be done on earth as it is in heaven, (Mt 6:9,10).

And that is the everlasting good news the messenger declares as glad tidings to those who dwell on the earth saying ... “Fear God and give Him glory because the hour of judgement by him has arrived. and so worship the one who made the heaven and earth and sea and fountains of waters”...(Rev 14:6,7)
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#304 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Chapter 20

Prelude to the thousand-year reign – Part 7,

Nebuchadnezzar’s dream tree (2 continued)

How important and urgent is it to be informed about the Great Reset?
Is there more to it than being 'crazy, kooky stuff?'

Demonstrating that the Great Reset is more than a passing phase here are some more videos commenting on different aspects of the planned reset.

Powerful individuals, groups and large global organisations are at the forefront of a plan labelled ‘The Great Reset’ which intends to use the fear generated by the coronavirus to reshape the world and achieve net-zero emissions says Sky News host Rowan Dean.

At 8:52 on the clock, Prince Charles using Biblical terminology, (Mt 20:12) says: ...And we are literally at the last hour.

Here is a Great Britt’s take on it. Is the Great Reset - Conspiracy or Fact?

Everyone's talking about the Great Reset - the economic proposal unveiled by Prince Charles and the WEF last year - but how significant is it, and how likely are the conspiracy theories that claim it will be used to bring in a New World Order?
And here he is again, this time talking about recycling, which appears to have also been implemented where he lives.
He looks at big tech companies pledging to be more green - big tech has made plenty of public efforts to assure the world of its commitment to environmentalism - can we be sure that these efforts aren’t merely for show?

And here David Ansara speaks with author, Douglas Kruger

about the ideological underpinnings of the 'Davos agenda' to restructure the global economy in the wake of the Covid-19 pandemic.. And the risk it poses to property rights.

And here is how an American couple views it.
You Will Own Nothing | A NECESSARY Knowledge | Big family Homestead
The Great Reset "great"... Hmmmm
.


This is today's reality. The Davos Economic Forum is not just a talkfest where the rich and powerful talk about these issues, but the implementation of measures are ongoing, and the Covid 19 pandemic is seen as an opportunity too good to miss.


The formation of the eighth beast is well underway, but before it emerges as a fully fledged ten-horned beast (Rev 17:11,12), the king of the north, the U.S and its allies, must first be brought to heel, see post 251,252 & 253, here
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#305 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 month ago

Chapter 20

Prelude to the thousand-year reign – Part 7,

Nebuchadnezzar’s dream tree (2b)

In post 303 above I said:
Since the epithet Yehoshua/Jehovah God means, ‘He comes to be God.’ As those growing to maturity clean up their act and seek his direction and guidance, at that time, ‘He comes to be God.’ And by doing this, they sanctify his name. And his rule, and his will, will be done on earth as it is in heaven, (Mt 6:9,10).
So what role, if any, does Jesus play in this drama of cosmic proportions? In what way, if any, is he vital for humankind’s salvation?

According to Google: Salvation means the following. In Christianity: the act of saving someone from sin or evil: the state of being saved from sin or evil. : something that saves someone or something from danger or a difficult situation...
What is salvation by faith?... God's Word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Grace Alone. Faith Alone. Grace alone means that God loves, forgives, and saves us not because of who we are or what we do, but because of the work of Christ
...Or How do you get salvation?... For some, the most important way to achieve salvation is through doing good works, such as giving to charity. However, other Christians focus on worship and faith. Some Christians believe that as well as having faith, people achieve salvation by following God's law, which is found in the Bible...

So 'In what way is Jesus vital for humankind’s salvation?' The short answer is, he doesn’t play any role according to the above definitions of salvation.

In Hebrew Jesus is הוֹשׁוּעַ 'Yehoshua, from יְהוָֹה Yhvh Yehovah or Jehovah from hava to become .
And יָשַׁע yasha to deliver . So Jesus’s name in Hebrew means Jehovah delivers, or saves.

Jesus said concerning the chief tax collector Zacchaeus ... this day salvation has come to this house because he also is a son of Abraham... Lu 19:9. Luke may well have written his letter to his friend in Greek. But Jesus spoke in Hebrew with his fellow countrymen. The Greek (LXX) translation of the Old Testament generally renders two Hebrew words salvation. One is shalom completeness, soundness, welfare, peace as at Gen 26:31, LXX ...After that Isaac sent them away in peace, [Strong’s Heb.7965 shalom]. And the other Hebrew word translated 'salvation' in the Greek LXX is Yeshua from the root Yasha to deliver, see above link. Neither of these words, whichever one Jesus used, have anything in common with the current understanding of salvation as per Google but are about physical deliverance and peace.

So what role does Jesus play in this drama of cosmic proportions? His role is vital for the preservation of human life on earth because he taught what is required of humans to reflect the image of the one who made them (Gen 1:27), i.e. Jesus said ... You heard it was said you must not commit adultery, but I say to you that everyone that keeps on looking at a woman so as to have a passion for her, has already committed adultery with her in his heart... You heard that it was said, ‘You must love your neighbour and hate your enemy. However, I say to you: Continue to love your enemies and pray for those persecuting you that you may prove yourselves sons of your father who is in the heavens, since he makes the sun rise upon wicked people and good and makes it rain upon righteous and unrighteous... (Mt 5: 27,28, 43-45). That is why he had sent out his disciples to baptize people of the nations ...teaching them all the things he had commanded them... (Mt 28:20). Because what he had taught them were the commandments of his heavenly Father Jehovah God. He had said ... But if anyone hears the sayings of mine and does not keep them, I do not judge him; for I came not to judge the world but to save, [as at 4982. sózó see, Gen 19:17, LXX], the world. He that disregards me and does not receive my sayings has one to judge him. The word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day, because I have not spoken of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak. Also, I know this commandment means everlasting life. Therefore the things I speak, just as the Father told me to speak [them] so I speak them... (Jhn 12:47-50)

Those that take the words of Jesus /Yehoshua, to heart, and make an effort to apply them, their ways will be ones that get the thumbs up of approval when the messenger flies in mid-heaven calling out “Fear God and give Him glory, because the hour of judgement by him has arrived, and so worship the one who made the heaven and earth and fountains of waters...(Rev 14:6,7)

No complex, difficult to understand doctrines here, all that one needs to do is give credit where credit is due, i.e. to the creator of heaven and earth. And to behave decently and generously toward all, including one’s enemies (Mt 5:44,45). He also said not to judge one another, but to give them the benefit of the doubt, that they may have their reasons for acting as they do (Mt 7:1-5). That in itself is a tall order, but not unreachable, and it certainly is worth the effort if it leads to a world where these principles govern.

These principles are not out of reach for any, regardless of class, religion, belief or situation in which one finds oneself because they become the motivational precepts of the heart. If you are unfamiliar with what Jesus taught or want to refresh your memory. You will find what he said in the first four books of the New Testament of the Bible. As you read, distinguish between what he said and the words of others, including the one who wrote the account, because only the words Jesus spoke are the words of our heavenly Father, which are the basis for judgement. And most of all, keep in mind that our heavenly Father Yehovah God and his son Yehoshua -' He comes to be saves' - are above all merciful
...Therefore Jehovah will keep in expectation of showing you favour, and therefore he will rise up to show you mercy. Happy are all those keeping in expectation of him... and your Grand instructor will no longer hide himself, and your eyes must become as eyes seeing your grand instructor, and your own ears will hear a word behind you say: “This is the way walk in it, you people”... in case you should go to the right or in case you should go to the left...(Isa 30:18, 20, 21)
LRW~

Bobcat
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Re: Revelation

#306 Post by Bobcat » 1 month ago

So 'In what way is Jesus vital for humankind’s salvation?' The short answer is, he doesn’t play any role according to the above definitions of salvation.
CI, some of the conclusions you reach are ... I'm not sure what to say.


Bobcat

Orchid61
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Re: Revelation

#307 Post by Orchid61 » 1 month ago

Hi CI,

I just had to respond with my feelings:

Without Jesus, there would be no more humanity.

He has given us the relationship Child/Father with our Heavenly Father, we can talk to our Heavenly Father through Jesus.
He gave His life so that we may have real live.
He pleads for us with our Heavenly Father. He is our King Mediator.
He is our moral compass in a world without morals.
Second to Jehovah, Jesus is our ALL.

Im my mind you just had a slip of the pen🙁 ?

Love Maria
Your sister in Christ 🌷

Kerry Huish
Posts: 283
Joined: 2 years ago

Re: Revelation

#308 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 month ago

Jude 1:12 When these people eat with you in your fellowship meals commemorating the Lord’s love, they are like dangerous reefs that can shipwreck you. They are like shameless shepherds who care only for themselves. They are like clouds blowing over the land without giving any rain. They are like trees in autumn that are doubly dead, for they bear no fruit and have been pulled up by the roots.

There are plenty of rocky reefs and empty words that cause shipwreck hidden within this thread.
Here are some boulders or blunders.

1. That Jesus was not the Christ while in the flesh.
(posts #94 onward)
2. That Jesus is not needed for salvation.
(post #305)

These two falsely presented points alone undermine everything else that is being said here.
Yes, we all make mistakes and get things wrong on occasion.
But it is the meek ones that will be corrected, learn and progress.

James 3:1-11 Not many of you should become teachers, my fellow believers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. We all stumble in many ways. Anyone who is never at fault in what they say is perfect, able to keep their whole body in check. When we put bits into the mouths of horses to make them obey us, we can turn the whole animal. Or take ships as an example. Although they are so large and are driven by strong winds, they are steered by a very small rudder wherever the pilot wants to go. Likewise, the tongue is a small part of the body, but it makes great boasts. Consider what a great forest is set on fire by a small spark. The tongue also is a fire, a world of evil among the parts of the body. It corrupts the whole body, sets the whole course of one’s life on fire, and is itself set on fire by hell. All kinds of animals, birds, reptiles and sea creatures are being tamed and have been tamed by mankind, but no human being can tame the tongue. It is a restless evil, full of deadly poison. With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse human beings, who have been made in God’s likeness. Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers and sisters, this should not be. Can both fresh water and salt water flow from the same spring? My brothers and sisters, can a fig tree bear olives, or a grapevine bear figs? Neither can a salt spring produce fresh water.

The teaching being presented here in this thread are steering people towards rocks...

Kind Regards

Kerry

AmosAu3
Posts: 456
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Re: Revelation

#309 Post by AmosAu3 » 1 month ago

Hi CI,

Thanks for another informative post on Revelation and the current world situation.

You made the following quote and some comments;

Quote, "So what role, if any, does Jesus play in this drama of cosmic proportions? In what way, if any, is he vital for humankind’s salvation?

According to Google: Salvation means the following. In Christianity: the act of saving someone from sin or evil: the state of being saved from sin or evil. : something that saves someone or something from danger or a difficult situation...
What is salvation by faith?... God's Word says that we are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus and not by our own efforts or works (Ephesians 2:8-9). Grace Alone. Faith Alone. Grace alone means that God loves, forgives, and saves us not because of who we are or what we do, but because of the work of Christ...Or How do you get salvation?... For some, the most important way to achieve salvation is through doing good works, such as giving to charity. However, other Christians focus on worship and faith. Some Christians believe that as well as having faith, people achieve salvation by following God's law, which is found in the Bible...

So 'In what way is Jesus vital for humankind’s salvation?' The short answer is, he doesn’t play any role according to the above definitions of salvation." (emphasis mine)

Thanks for pointing out how the generally accepted definition, removes the need for our compliance with God's arrangement for salvation.

Thanks for all the effort, hard work and research that you put into articles such as this one.

Regards, Amos.

Stranger
Posts: 2010
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Re: Revelation

#310 Post by Stranger » 1 month ago

AmosAu3 wrote:
1 month ago
Thanks for pointing out how the generally accepted definition, removes the need for our compliance with God's arrangement for salvation.

Hi Amos,

Sharp eye my brother! I was going to point out the same thing, but I was kind of waiting for Coccus to have her reply. Plus I hadn't had much time to get my wording right lately.



Stranger, (Jer 10:5 KJV)

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