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Re: Revelation

#291 Post by Stranger » 1 week ago

coccus ilicis wrote:
1 week ago
Thank you Stranger for telling us why you believe as you do.
Hi Coccus,

Well, the real reason I believe that Way is because that's how it reads. With or without the Jujutsu of the internet. Christ, and when I say Christ I am talking about Christ in Heaven who is the Grand Master of all art forms. (Isa 45:7) He is the one and only that's equal to the Father, those Two I can tell you for a certainty are as One with the Power of the Holy Trinity and much more than that. They have the Lord of Host's, Jehovah of Armies, myriads of Heavenly warrior and peacekeeping angels, with Michael being the Chief with the most feathers who is commanding those myriads. Yes, Satan has his opinions and his minions, but someone with your level of degree now, can easily and skillfully defend themselves from them.
coccus ilicis wrote:
1 week ago
When the WT society came up with its teaching the world was a different place. Zionism was admired, then came WW1 and WW2, the atom bomb on Nagasaki and Hiroshima and the cold war. The WT views were formed from an American perspective during a period when the world was aflood with war propaganda and cold war hysteria, which would have influenced their thinking, and like America, they believed that they were special and were the answer to the world’s woes. But that is yesterday’s mindset. Today people no longer see the world as unipolar ...Unipolarity in international politics is a distribution of power in which one state exercises most of the cultural, economic, and military influence...
Always keep this Scripture in mind when listening to the media, or might I say "paying vision to it". (Matt 24:6) Stay awake on the internet, we all know of the countless thieves roaming the tangled web. (Rev 16:15)

Stranger, (Lu 17:30)

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#292 Post by coccus ilicis » 1 week ago

Chapter 20

Prelude to the thousand-year reign – Part 6

Continuing on from post 285, and 287 here

In post 287 above I featured Putin’s reply to Bidden and noted that Putin appeared to apply the counsel of Mt 7:1-5

Looking further afield one can see it not only applies to JWs but to all individuals in all organizational structures of this world, be they religious or secular. The systems of this world are an outgrowth of the adversary using human proxies to forward his agenda, i.e. they may not be under his direct control but are manipulated by him.

Daniel speaks of the time when sleepers would wake up ...some to everlasting life and some to indefinitely lasting abhorrence (Dan 12:2). Does that mean some are inherently bad and some are inherently good? No, I don’t think so, because it says that many would cleanse and whiten themselves and that others would not and therefore could not understand (Dan 12:9,10). It is up to the individual as to whether they will make the effort to cleanse and whiten themselves or not. Those that do will be refined (Mal 3:1-4; cf De 31:25-29; 33:8,9). So the cleansing and whitening of oneself is the first step, which each one does at their own pace.

But does the awakening only apply to those who have a religious background? I doubt it, even as Jesus said in his illustration of the eleventh-hour workers in the vineyard ... In this way the last one will be first and the first one last...(Mt 20:16; 8:8,10,11)

Listen to this man, whose upbringing appears to have been completely devoid of a belief in God. At the time of his interview, he had only just pulled free from the mire. He talks about his experience amongst the upper echelon of the banking fraternity. It is in Dutch, but one can turn the auto-generated subtitles on to auto-translate - English. Listen closely to what he says from around 16:55 and 19:30 where he mentions the Bible

His awakening did not come in a flash and a conversion to a belief in God, but it was an awakening in his heart and the knowledge that he could not continue to do what he had been doing.

The creator God, like a loving just father, does all that he can to give his children the best chance of meeting the requirements necessary to make them fit for the job, i.e. to be custodians of this wonderful planet he prepared for carbon life ... and I kept on beholding and there were thrones placed, and the Ancient of days sat down ... And the court took its seat and there were books that were opened... And the rulership dignity and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens are given to the people who are the holy ones of the highs, [adj. plural, hover curser over parsing below 'most high' here Dan 7:18 & here, Dan 2:27], Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, [cf Rev 14:6], and all rulerships will serve and obey them... (Dan 7:9,10,27)

This is the everlasting good news of the messenger that flies in mid-heaven.

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#293 Post by coccus ilicis » 5 days ago

Chapter 20

Prelude to the thousand-year reign – Part 6,
Continued (1)

In the video post 292 above, starting around 20:20. Ronald Bergman says that most in the inner circle were Luciferians who believed it was the true religion and that all the others were false. He had been invited as a guest and describes what went on but when he was invited to participate in child sacrifice, it was the breaking point for him. He said that Luciferianism has existed for thousands of years. If that is the case, is there a record of this practice among Jews and is it recorded in the Bible? Check out the Judaic site here, The Tragic History of Molech Child Sacrifice
In biblical times there were numerous false gods that were popular in the ancient pagan societies, and, at times, among the Jewish people as well. Throughout the Tanach, there are many references to a rite named Molech, which involved passing children through fire, with many warnings from G‑d to not observe it
But check the site where the question is fully answered. Molech, from melekh is king with the vowels for shame added to the pronunciation, is also referred to as Malcham (Jer. 49:1,3; Zeph 1:5), Moloch at Acts 7:43, cf Amos 5:26, Malcam at 2 Sam 12:30; 1Chron 20:2, and Milcom at 1Ki 11:5,7,33. At Jer 32:35 Molech is associated with Baal. It has been suggested that Moloch is a title rather than a name of a god

So, as Ronald Bernard said, child sacrifice has been practised for thousands of years, and it is still practised today. But he called it Luciferianism. Lucifer is Latin for light bringer, ... How you have fallen from heaven, you shining one, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, you, who were disabling nations! (NWT), or ...How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!, (NKJV Isa 14:12).

So what does it say about this Lucifer/the bringer of light, (Isa 14:12), when did he begin his rule?

Although this Molech/king had his adherents including jews from ancient times, it was not until the middle of the 5th century BC that he subverted the Aaronic priesthood. Moses had castigated a sector of the Levites, saying ...For I well know your rebelliousness and your stiff neck. If while I am alive with you today you have proved rebellious in behaviour toward Jehovah, how much more so after my death... For I well know that after my death you will without fail act ruinously... (De 31:27,29). Before he died he admonished the Aaronic sector of Levi, "Your Thummin and Urim belong to the man loyal to you, whom you put to the test at Massah, You began to contend with him at the waters of Merribah, [they had quarrelled with Moses, Ex 17:2-7]. The man who said to his father and his mother, 'I have not seen them,' and even his brothers he did not acknowledge, and his sons who observed his covenant he did not know... (De 33:8,9). In other words, he told them that the one they chose for the office of high priest must be prepared to do as he had done.

The Aaronic priesthood is the army of heavens referred to at Dan 8:9-12. For the timeline and more details, see my reply to Kerry post 33, here, where I said in part
From this point onward at Dan 8, this heavenly army of Dan 8:10,11 is referred to as a she ... And an army, [fem], she is given over/against the constant feature because of transgression, and she [fem. army], keeps throwing truth to the earth and she accomplished this and prospered... (Dan 8:12).
This army of priests thus became the wife of Lucifer/the bringer of light. Lucifer was their Baal/husbandly owner. Since then successive earthly princes have served as proxy husbands of this army in the earthly sphere, (cf Rev 14:4).

The changes made to the Hebrew text, making it conform to what was then believed, was the beginning of the transgressing. In explanation of the vision of Dan 8: 9-14, the heavenly messenger said to Daniel "Here I am causing you to know what will occur in the final part of the denunciation" ...(Dan 8:19, cf Dan 11:36). So what follows is what will occur in the time of the end.

And in the final part of their kingdom, [this refers to the 4 kings that had emerged after Alexander the Great, Dan 8:22], when the transgressings have come to a completion, there will stand up a king fierce in countenance. Note, it does not say transgressors, but it is a plural verb participle (see biblehub snip below), that refers to an ongoing process that started in the 5th century BCE when the changes were first introduced by the Sopherim/scribes, see post 33, here.


The transgressings came to 'a completion' when the Bible was translated into modern languages incorporating all the changes to the Hebrew text and the LXX, including replacing God's name 'Jehovah,' with LORD. To make sure compare Dan 8:23 in the LXX Appostolic Interlinear, here. The 1984 edition of the NWT went part of the way to re-establishing the original text and it replaced Gods name, Jehovah, where they thought it should go. With online interlinears and lexicons available, what was written in the original language can now be re-established. And we can be thankful for all those who stick their neck out to uncover these 'transgressings,' and all that has been hidden. Jesus said ...therefore do not fear them; for there is nothing covered over that will not become uncovered and no secret that will not become known...(Mt 10:26). This is part of the waking up and cleansing foretold at Dan 12:2,3,4,9,10, which is now in progress.

Yesterday, I did not understand, today I do, and tomorrow I will understand more.

In the final part of the denunciation, in the appointed time of the end... there will stand up a king fierce in countenance and understanding ambiguous sayings... and his power must become mighty, but not by his own power, [the one empowering him is Lucifer/bringer of light], And in a wonderful way he will cause ruin and he will certainly prove successful and do effectively. And he will actually bring mighty ones to ruin, also the holy people. And according to his insight he shall cause deception to succeed in his hand. And in his heart he will put on great airs and during freedom from care he will bring many to ruin... Dan 8:19.24,25. This is now in the pipeline.

Thus empowered by his husbandly owner Lucifer, this king is the symbolic woman of Rev 18:4 who says in her heart, I sit a queen I am no widow. And another voice from heaven says ... “Get out of her my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins... Her ride on the eighth beast will be her last (Rev 17:11,12,16)

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coccus ilicis
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Re: Revelation

#294 Post by coccus ilicis » 17 hours ago

Chapter 20

Prelude to the thousand-year reign – Part 6,
Cont. (2)

In post 293 above I said:
In the final part of the denunciation, in the appointed time of the end... there will stand up a king fierce in countenance and understanding ambiguous sayings... and his power must become mighty, but not by his own power, [the one empowering him is Lucifer/bringer of light]...
Isaiah chapter 14, where Lucifer is mentioned, deals with what will happen after this fierce king comes to his end (Dan 8:25) The chapter starts off, ...For Jehovah will show mercy on Jacob, and he will yet certainly choose Israel...(Isa 14:1). We have been conditioned to understand this as a tautology, i.e. that Jacob is the same as Israel, but it isn't. In this prophecy, Jacob refers to the direct descendants of Jacob, and Israel refers to those that have persevered with God and men... (Gen 32:28)

Isaiah's entire 13th chapter through to Isa 14:27 consists of a vision that concerns Babylon. He writes ...The pronouncement against Babylon that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw in a vision, (Isa 13:1). However, it is not about Nebuchadnezzar's Babylon but is a pronouncement against Babylon the great city that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth, (Rev 17:18).

How so?

Nebuchadnezzar’s Babylon was captured by stealth overnight and remained intact with minimum loss of life and continued to be a city of renown. In 331BC Babylon surrendered to the Macedonian king Alexander the Great, who confirmed its privileges and ordered the restoration of the temples. Alexander, recognizing the commercial importance of the city ...Alexander’s conquest brought Babylon into the orbit of Greek culture, and Hellenistic science was greatly enriched by the contributions of Babylonian astronomy ...After a power struggle among Alexander’s generals [cf. Dan 8:22,23] Babylon passed to the Seleucid dynasty in 312. The city’s importance was much reduced by the building of a new capital, Seleucia on the Tigris...Babylon (inserted text and underline mine)

Compare this with ...Look! The day of Jehovah itself is coming, cruel with fury and burning anger, in order to make the land an object of astonishment and that it may annihilate the sinners out of it. The very stars of heavens in their constellations ...will not flash forth their light; the sun will actually grow dark at its going forth, and the moon itself will not shine, and I will certainly bring home [its own badness] upon the inhabited world, and their own error upon the wicked themselves... and I shall make mortal man rarer than fine gold an earthling man, [adam], rarer than the gold of Ophir... (Isa 13: 9-13; cf. Mt 24:29; Rev 6:13,14)
(Isa 13:22) ...And it is near, her time and her days will not be prolonged ...For Jehovah will show mercy on Jacob and will yet certainly choose Israel...(Isa 14:1) As one can see the vision flows seamlessly from Isa 13:22 to Isa 14:1.

Reading on from there one must keep in mind that here Jacob refers to Jews, and Israel to the perseverers with God, ones that Jehovah chooses and thus names. ...And God went on to say to him...No longer is your name to be called Jacob, but Israel will your name become. And he began to call his name Israel (Gen 35:10). Jacob was the first one chosen and thus named, but this 'choosing' has not yet been finalized and the scroll sealed. (Rev 7:3,4).

For Jehovah will show mercy on Jacob, and will yet certainly choose Israel and settle them, [Israel], upon their own soils, [cf.Dan 12:2],

And strangers must be joined to them, [Jacob], and they must attach themselves to the house of Jacob. And people,will take them and bring them to their own place.

And the house of Israel will possess them
, [Jacob and their attached strangers], in the soil of Jehovah as menservants and maidservants, and they, [Jacob and strangers], capture those holding them captive, and have in subjection those driving them to work...(Isa 14:1,2)

And you will take up this proverbial saying against the king of Babylon ... "How has the one driving [others] to work come to a stop, the oppressor come to a stop? Jehovah has broken the rod of the wicked ones, the staff of the ruling ones
...(Isa 14:4,5).

And at Isa 10:20 speaking about the same day, it says ... And it will certainly occur in that day, that those remaining over of Israel, and those who have escaped of the house of Jacob, will never again support themselves upon the one striking them, and they will certainly support themselves upon Jehovah, the Holy One of Israel in trueness....

From these verses, it is clear that Jacob's descendants, and Israel the perseverers with God were, and most still are, deceived by the fierce king of Dan 8:23-25, who is Lucifer's concubine who claims to be no widow (Rev 18:7). She has ruled them and used them to accomplish her works for centuries (Isa 10:1-3). Among them are the ones who in that day say to Jesus ' Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and expel demons in your name, and perform many powerful works in your name?, but he calls them workers of lawlessness, (Mt 7:22,23). And that is why Jehovah’s messenger calls out to all those in servitude, in whatever capacity to Babylon ...Get out of her my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins... (Rev 17:18; 18:4)...

After the two symbolic witnesses have been figuratively killed, i.e. silenced, and then come to life and get called up to heaven (Rev 11:7-9,11,12), they are vindicated. With their death penalty overturned, A great fear falls on those beholding them. And in that hour a great shaking occurs, and a tenth of the city, [that has a kingdom over the kings of the earth], falls. And seven thousand names of men are, [figuratively], killed by the shaking, and the rest become frightened and give glory to God... (Rev 11:7-9, 11-13). (To confirm the changed words in the quoted Bible verses above, click on the links of words in italics)

In that hour the effeminized harlot king Babylon the Great is broken ... without a hand (Dan 8:25).

And a second messenger flies in mid-heaven saying ... “She has fallen, Babylon the Great has fallen, she who made all the nations drink the wine of the anger of her fornication (Rev 14:8). And it is then that the ten horns of the 8th beast, (Dan 7:24,25; Rev 17:11,12), turn on the great city Babylon and eat up her fleshy parts and completely burn her with fire ... For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, even their one thought, by giving their power to the beast ,(Rev 17:13,16,17).

When this effeminized king who is the concubine of Lucifer is killed, Isa 14: 9-22 says in part ... Even Sheol underneath has become agitated at you in order to meet you coming in. At you, it has awakened those impotent in death, all the goat-like leaders of the earth. It has made all the kings of the nations get up from their thrones. All of them speak up and say to you, ‘Have you yourself become weak like us? ...Oh how you have fallen from heaven, you shining one, [Lucifer],son of the dawn! How you have been cut down to the earth, you who were disabling nations! As for you, you have said in your heart, ‘To the heavens, I shall go up, above the stars of God, I shall lift up my throne... I shall go up above the high places of the clouds; I shall make myself resemble the highest one. However, down to Sheol, you will be brought, to the remotest parts of the pit... Those seeing you ...will give close examination even of you, [saying], 'Is this the man that was making kingdoms rock, that made the productive land like a wilderness and that overthrew its cities... “And I will rise up against them... “And I will cut off from Babylon, name and remnant and progeny and posterity is the utterance of Jehovah... (Isa 14:9-22)

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