Where we are at...? Daniel 11 & 12.

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Kerry Huish
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Re: Where we are at...? Daniel 11 & 12.

#31 Post by Kerry Huish » 1 month ago

Kerry Huish wrote:
1 year ago
Kosonen wrote:
1 year ago

Daniel 8:25 "And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.

Daniel 11:36 "The king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself above every god; and against the God of gods he will speak astonishing things."......45 And he will plant his royal tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration; and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.

Can we agree that these scriptures are about the same "king"? The time period is the same, and the character of the king/horn is essentially the same, arrogant, exalting himself, speaking against God and Prince of Princes, Jesus Christ.
I cannot agree that these scriptures are talking about the same King.

Dan 8:25 is talking about the King of the South.
This can be seen from an examination of the context, particularly Dan 8:9

Dan 11:36 is talking about the King of the North.
This can be seen from an examination of the context, particularly the verses leading up to Dan 11:36
After further research and study, I wish to make a retraction and alteration of the above statement.

I clearly see that Dan 8:25 is indeed talking about the King of the North and specifically his exploits.

However, I still maintain that Dan 8:25 & Dan 11:36 & 45 is talking about two very different periods of time and as a result two different Kings of the North.

As far as I can find, it is Jehovah's Witnesses alone that teach Dan 8:25 refers to the King of the South and I no longer agree with this belief.

Kind Regards

Kerry

Stranger
Posts: 1897
Joined: 3 years ago

Re: Where we are at...? Daniel 11 & 12.

#32 Post by Stranger » 1 month ago

Kerry Huish wrote:
1 month ago
As far as I can find, it is Jehovah's Witnesses alone that teach Dan 8:25 refers to the King of the South and I no longer agree with this belief.

If you would have read Dan 8:27 KJV sooner then perhaps they wouldn't have fooled you the first time! Don't feel like the lone ranger though, they have had quite a few agree with it. Even if it is just one belief at the time Kerry, at least you are letting go.



Stranger, (De 29:29)

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coccus ilicis
Posts: 682
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Re: Where we are at...? Daniel 11 & 12.

#33 Post by coccus ilicis » 6 days ago

Kerry Huish wrote:
1 month ago
Kerry Huish wrote:
1 year ago
Kosonen wrote:
1 year ago

Daniel 8:25 "And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart, he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand.

Daniel 11:36 "The king will do as he pleases, and he will exalt himself and magnify himself above every god; and against the God of gods he will speak astonishing things."......45 And he will plant his royal tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration; and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him.

Can we agree that these scriptures are about the same "king"? The time period is the same, and the character of the king/horn is essentially the same, arrogant, exalting himself, speaking against God and Prince of Princes, Jesus Christ.
After further research and study, I wish to make a retraction and alteration of the above statement.
I clearly see that Dan 8:25 is indeed talking about the King of the North and specifically his exploits.
However, I still maintain that Dan 8:25 & Dan 11:36 & 45 is talking about two very different periods of time and as a result two different Kings of the North
As far as I can find, it is Jehovah's Witnesses alone that teach Dan 8:25 refers to the King of the South and I no longer agree with this belief.
Kind Regards
Kerry
Hello Kerry,
For some reason, I was thinking about the holy mountain of decoration (Dan 11:45) this morning and checked to see if there were any posts on this subject. In the post above. Konsonen says:
Can we agree that these scriptures are about the same "king"? The time period is the same, and the character of the king/horn is essentially the same, arrogant, exalting himself, speaking against God and Prince of Princes, Jesus Christ.
And you say:
However, I still maintain that Dan 8:25 & Dan 11:36 & 45 are talking about two very different periods of time and as a result two different Kings of the North.
.

I agree with you that it is talking about two different kings, but they exist simultaneously in the time of the end. However, one of the two is unseen and has been a clandestine entity that has enabled kings for more than two thousand years.

This unseen clandestine entity had its beginning in Jerusalem as an insignificant little horn, ( Dan 8:9). It emerged after the stump of Nebuchadnezzar's tree was banded with copper and iron, signifying the Greek and Roman mindset that would govern kings from that time forward (Dan 2:39,40; 4:15,15)

Alexander 1, of Macedon [Greece], known with the title Philhellene was the ruler of the ancient kingdom of Macedon from c. 498 BC until his death in 454 BC...Alexander 1 came to the throne during the era of the kingdom's vassalage to Achaemenid Persia, dating back to the time of his father, Amyntas 1, although Macedon retained a broad scope of autonomy.[3] In 492 BC it, [Macedon/Greece], was made a fully subordinate part of the Persian Empire.... At that time the Greek mindset and their philosophy began to influence the intelligentsia of the then civilized world, namely the Persian empire.

The Scribe Ezra 480–440 BCE

The Emendations of the Sopherim ...Ezra came up from Babylon; and he was a skilled scribe in the Law of Moses, which the LORD God of Israel had given.... "... Ezra the priest, the scribe, expert in the words of the commandments of the LORD, and of His statutes to Israel."(Ezra 7:6,11) Ezra was the first in a long line of Sopherim (Scribes) who were given the task of refining the scriptures
This next link gives an alternative view concerning The 134 Emendations of the Sopherim ... A Most Closely-Kept Secret ...those scribes whose responsibility it was to preserve the Hebrew Texts of Scripture, took it upon themselves to make changes to the original texts, in order to edit out those few places which posed a disturbing counter-challenge to their understanding of God’s personal existence. By that time, the traditional Jewish religion was firmly set in the belief in not just one God, but that the One God was a single individual only. When they encountered long-established texts which posed difficult questions, the traditional views were held onto, and thus, those non-conforming texts were altered! ... those custodians of the Original Hebrew Texts, the Sopherim, having changed the wording found in those texts, clearly intentionally. The result lending support to that traditional Judaic Monotheistic-Unitarian view well-known today, that God is just ONE single Being only....

Jews at that time were well aware that in the original text the creator, Jehovah Elohim/Jehovah Gods was a plurality of Gods that worked in unity as one. That is what the original text said. As this little horn's influence grew, it made its impact felt toward the south(Dan 8:9).
Wikipedia
...Egyptian Jews constitute both one of the oldest and youngest Jewish communities in the world. The historic core of the Jewish community
And toward the sun rising [east].
Babylonian Jewish Community ...There was a group of Jews who never left Babylonia after the Babylonian Exile... This community more or less thrived...The community which they headed was both numerous (estimates of its number vary from 800,000 to 1,200,000) and well-based economically.

And toward the Decoration. Since the little horn, was based in Jerusalem the Decoration must refer to a place further afield. At Dan 11:45 it refers to a place called the holy mountain of Decoration, at a guess the only place I can think of that would fit such a depiction would be Mount Sinai, where Jehovah spoke to Moses face to face. But that is only a guess at this stage.

It says concerning this little horn that it kept getting greater all the way to the army of the heavens and it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth. This would refer to the Aaronic priesthood who one after the other applied the changes of the Sopherim in their liturgy as they performed their duties... And all the way to the prince of the army they put on great airs... and from him, the constant feature was taken away...and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. (Dan 8:11). They had supplanted his distinctive name, Jehovah. In doing this they replaced the Jehovah Elohim/Gods, with an unseen entity whom they addressed as Lord.

From this point onward at Dan 8, this heavenly army of Dan 8:10,11 is referred to as a she ... And an army, [fem], she is given over/against the constant feature according to transgression, and she [fem. army], keeps throwing truth to the earth and she accomplished this and prospered... (Dan 8:12).

The 2300 evenings and mornings (Dan 8:14,26), refers to the annual Passover celebration , which was desecrated at that time. For an in-depth discussion on this see post 7, here, and post 153, here

In the video featured in post 292, here , Ronald Bernard reveals what this unseen entity is, starting from around 20:23 on the video time-line, (Isa 14:12). This unseen clandestine entity, via its human proxies, has enabled kings for more than two millennia.
LRW~

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coccus ilicis
Posts: 682
Joined: 4 years ago

Re: Where we are at...? Daniel 11 & 12.

#34 Post by coccus ilicis » 6 days ago

coccus ilicis wrote:
6 days ago

In the video featured in post 292, here , Ronald Bernard reveals what this unseen entity is, starting from around 20:23 on the video time-line, (Isa 14:12). This unseen clandestine entity, via its human proxies, has enabled kings for more than two millennia.
For those who do not know how the New KJV renders Isa 14:12, here it is ...How you are fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! How you are cut down to the ground, You who weakened the nations!
... .
LRW~

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